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Edip Yuksel vs. Ali Sina
Round IX - page 34
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Closing
the Debate, Analysis of Ali Sina and His
Mission
, and the Surprise
January
17, 2005
Edip
Yuksel, 19.org
On
January 14, 2005 I wrote the following:
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Quote:
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"What
are you saying Ali Sina? Was it your other personality who
for about three weeks has been scavenging among the piles of
hadith and sira books?
"In your attack to the Quran so far you have not been
able to get your nose out of those trash; you always
followed the "Six Steps to the Power of 666"
methodology. It would be perhaps a much better argument if
you could give up from your hadith treasure and focus on
that book alone. But, deep in your heart you know that you
cannot criticize the Quran against someone like me; so you
tried to delay such a debate. So far, all your accusations
have been thrown into where they belong. With the exception
of the few troll who will clap you even if you sneeze,
people will see it.
"I will post a brief analysis of your site, your cause
and I will present you a little surprise. Hopefully, before
the next week starts."
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Well, now it is time for the ANALYSIS and the SURPRISE note.
However, first I will explain what led me to end this debate:
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Before we
read your “analysis” and your “surprise”, let us be clear that the
accusation that I “have not been able to get my nose out of the
trash of hadith” is a not true. I attacked the Quran and what I asked
you is to explain the Quran only. At no time I held you responsible for
any haidth. You wrote a book even before knowing me and you based your
entire history of Muhammad on the same "pile of trash" of haidth
and sira books that you decry. Then you said you did that to trap me. I
can’t see how this affects me. You said the details of that history are
not important and what is important is the Quran. I did exactly what you
did. My questions hinged around the Quran and never any hadith. You did
not answer any of the charges I brought against the Quran and your only
line of defense has been accusing me of relying on haidth. Anyone who
reads our debate can see this is not the case.
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About
a month ago, I accepted Ali Sina's invitation to debate on Islam. I
had limited time, so I invited him to debate face-to-face in public.
I told him that I could arrange such a debate at the
University
of
Arizona
or
Pima
College
. I was working to finish important projects such as the Reformist
Translation of the Quran; a script for a political comedy; animation
school; and establishing an alliance with other organizations under
the name Islamic Reform; and teaching philosophy.
But, Ali Sina rejected to debate in public claiming security
and his need for research; so, we ended up debating on Islam at his
website, which took about a month. Despite my repeated reminder to
debate on the Quran, Ali was obsessed with using hearsays of
hearsays in his arguments. I was glad that finally, Ali Sina was
offering to debate in a nicer language and focus on the Quran, and I
congratulated him for that decision. Nevertheless, my happiness did
not last long. On January 13, 2005, Ali posted a paragraph exposing
his real face. I read the paragraph first at free-minds.org then I
saw it published at his website, faithfreedom.org. I reacted to that
in a language that it deserved. Here is the merged version of my
successive two reactions. Note that for the first time I did not
feel free to call Ali with the word "dear":
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Quote:
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You
may say but Muslims are humans too. Is having the human
appearance enough to make us humans? The sign of humanity is
in our humanness. No person who believes in those inhumane
teachings of the Quran that calls for killing and murder of
innocent people deserves to be called human. Therefore, this
is a war between humanity and a spiritually underdeveloped
subhuman species. The actions of Muslims are barbaric. Their
thoughts are beastly. They have no human conscience and they
are preying on us humans. So this is a war between humans
and Muslims.
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Ali:
I know that your mouth is filled with foam and venom against
Muslims, but I do not expect you to be using the exact language of
Fascists and Nazis. In case you have not written the above-quoted
idiotic statements, which I hope that you have not, then ignore
these words and let the real source get my message.
To the coward vampire, who is instigating wars and genocides:
You are the real subhuman, you are a vampire who is thirsty
to suck the blood of more than a billion humans on this planet. If
this is an irrational reaction to a terrorist event that killed
several thousand people, then you should demonstrate many times more
hatred and irrational reaction to the terrorism, atrocities,
murders, and massacres committed by USA-INC, UK, USSR, and Israel;
in the last century alone, in which they killed MILLIONS of PEOPLE
and destroyed countries and annihilated entire cities! By calling
destruction of entire cities, together with families and children,
with the word WAR does not make a bit difference.
Though I condemn a warmongering group of hypocrite Christians
by calling their name Evilgelical, I never justify killing
Evilgelical Christians, let alone all Christians, or killing Zionist
Jews, let alone all Jews. You are a monster using the mask of
humanism. You cannot be a human; you are a hatemonger and
bloodthirsty creature. I do not condone killing animals like you;
but I might approve of putting a leash around your dirty neck.
Peace is our weapon against fascist warmongers. Yes, PEACE
I am waiting for Ali Sina's answer for this matter, ASAP.
This excerpt is not something simple to get away with it. I will
explain after Ali Sina's rejection or admission. And I hope he will
reject or rescind it. I will accept his denial even if he was the
one who had written in a moment of irrationality and rabid insanity.
So, Ali Sina, if it is not you who has written the above Neo
Nazi remarks then who is posting articles together with you? If it
is you, be brave and own your words.
Tell me whether it is indeed NOT you who have declared
himself to be a promoter of genocide by dehumanizing all Muslims.
Tell me that a TALIBAN or a NEONAZI hacker hacked your website and
wrote answer in your name. I would be glad to accept this scenario.
Because, I cannot believe that a person who is smart enough to
engage in intellectual debates, though frequently sniffing and
stuffing himself with holy trash, could be author of such rabid and
diabolic words! SALAM, that is PEACE
On
January 14, 2005 Ali Sina responded to my query as follows:
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"Looks
like you took that personally. Does that description
describe you too? If not then why you get so worked out and
if yes what else do you want me to call you when all you
think is killing innocent human beings?"
"Make your position clear Edip. Do you approve of
terror and murder of innocent people or not? Is this talk
about reformation and humanization nothing but cheap
propaganda? Which side are you standing anyway? If you are
on the side of humanity why you get so upset and if you are
on the site of the savage terrorists then why pretend to
have been reformed. Is there a third position that I am not
aware of?"
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Ali
Sina after condemning and convicting the entire muslim world to
death and then as the judge of his court now he is contemplating to
forgive my life if I can prove to him that I am not guilty, or
subhuman. Though he had visited my personal website (yuksel.org), my
organization's website (19.org), read my life story, and learned my
uncompromising standing against violence, terror, wars, human rights
violation and suppression of freedom… Knowing that I had to flee
my country because of my rejection of traditional corrupt Islam,
knowing that my mentor and close friend was the first victim of al-Qaida
terrorism in the USA, and witnessing that the rabid Sunnis and
Shiites participating at his forum sided with him against me,
knowing all of these, his majesty is not yet clear whether to
distinguish me from other Muslims who are condemned to death by his
"humanistic" decree of genocide. He needs more evidence,
perhaps, me publicly begging for my life in his court of
inquisition!
Thank
God, this so-called Hislamic apostate who is openly supported by
Evangelical Christians does not have power. He would be worse than
Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, or his like-minded Taliban.
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You seem to
have a very high estimation of yourself. This was typical of Muhammad who
killed and looted so many innocent people and had the guts to call himself
the best of the creation and a perfect example. As I explained during this
debate, Muhammad was a narcissist and every one of his followers, to the
degree that he or she is influenced by him shows the same pathological
traits.
Dear Edip,
what you say about yourself count very little. After all everyone thinks
to be a superior person and them more he or she is a narcissist the more
the holier than thou attitude is manifest in him.
I am afraid;
you did not come across as a man who stands against violence, terror,
human rights abuses or suppression of freedom. You are a staunch defender
of the Quran and there is no question that this book advocates violence,
terror and human rights abuses and it suppresses the freedom of its
followers and particularly its opponents. You have been abused and
persecuted but this is normal in Islam. All the Muslims are victims and
victimizers in their own rights. This is the nature of Islam. Muslims have
killed and persecuted many more among themselves than the non-Muslims. We
can’t say all the victims of Islam are innocent. When the tables are
turned, they do the same things with others. Your total devotion to the
cult of terror of Muhammad proves that you are far from being a peaceful
and non-violent person.
Furthermore
you poured your unbounded vituperation on Jews and the Christians whom you
disparagingly call “Evilgelical”. The interesting part is that you
have escaped persecution from your Muslim brothers and here in
America
you found protection and freedom. And how you thank your hosts? You
viciously attack them and incite hate against them. This
is so typical Islamic.
You seem to
be obsessed about thinking of yourself as distinguished from other
Muslims. That distinction exists only in your mind. In fact show me one
Muslims who does not think he is distinguished from other Muslims by
virtue of the fact that he interprets the Quran differently. It is the
nature of Islam to make people haughty, self-righteous and arrogant. I see
you as a Muslim and a Muslim is a Muslim. As long as you follow and
worship a terrorist you are a potential terrorist. This
debate has helped us see the real nature of the Submitters and show to the
world that their claim of reformation is bogus and it is nothing but a
cheap propaganda. In fact when I pressed you to explain what this reform
means you were evasive and all you could say was to call me ignorant for
confusing “Islamic reform” with “reform of Islam”. You refused to
explain what you mean by Islamic reform because you knew you would expose
yourself to further attacks.
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