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Edip Yuksel vs. Ali Sina
Round VII -26
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I asked you to explain sure 111 and 38:41-44
without hadith and you wrote:
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Now it is clear that
your Hislamic disease is still in your heart and mind. Your approach
to the Quran is exactly similar to that of the Sunni or Shiite ones.
Without being brainwashed by these teachings, any reasonable person
would and should understand the meaning and message of those verses.
Sure, we can ask more questions regarding the details WE WISH to
see, but there is no end of demands for more details, especially
irrelevant details. Bring me any explanation, and I bet that I will
shower you with too many questions that you will never be able to
satisfy my demand for more details. Here is the translation of these
verses from the translations of Rashad Khalifa and Layth of
Progressive Muslims, respectively:
Remember our servant Job: he called upon his
Lord, "The devil has afflicted me with hardship and pain."
"Strike the ground with your foot. A spring will give you
healing and a drink." We restored his family for him; twice as
many. Such is our mercy; a reminder for those who possess
intelligence. "Now, you shall travel the land and preach the message, to fulfill
your pledge." We found him steadfast. What a good
servant! He was a submitter. (38:41-44) http://19.org/km/RK/38
And recall Our servant
Job, when he called upon his Lord: "The devil has afflicted me
with an illness and pain." "Strike with your foot, here is
a cold spring to wash with and to drink." And We restored his
family to him along with a group like them, as a mercy from Us; and
a reminder for those who possess intelligence. "And
take in your hand a bundle and travel with it, and do not break your
oath." We found him steadfast. What a good servant! He
was obedient. (38:41-44) http://19.org/km/PM/38
I do not understand which part you do not
understand. Since the followers of hadith and sunnah blindly accept
the lies of their clergymen, they do not trust the Quranic verses
asserting that the Quran was detailed, complete, easy-to-understand,
and should be the only authority (12:111; 45:6; 39:23; 30:28; 16:89;
7:2-3; 17:46; 27:6; 11:1; 75:19; 54:17,22,32,40; 5:48-49; 6:112-115;
18:109; 10:15; 6:159; 19:64; 10:15; 41:3; 25:30; 17:39; 36:2; 5:101;
42:21; 33:38; 35:43.). To prove their point, they asked numerous
IRRELEVANT questions or the questions where they found their answers
in mishmash collection of Hadith and Sunnah. As an ex Sunni or
Shiite, you have not yet washed your brain from the pollution
inflicted by these sects.
Ali, which part of these verses you do not
understand? Perhaps, like your Sunni and Shiite evil twins you are
wondering with which foot Job hit the ground. The followers of
hadith and Sunnah take the right-hand and left-hand, right-foot and
left-foot issue more seriously than Dr. Seuss had taken. They try to
enter bathroom with left foot, clean themselves with left, and eat
with right. Right foot, left foot. Wet foot, dry foot. Low foot,
high foot. True foot, lie foot. Here comes the Evilgelical-Sunni sly
soot!
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Let us compare the above translations (which are
already different among each other) with Shakir’s
38:41
And remember Our servant Ayyub, when he called upon his Lord: The Shaitan
has afflicted me with toil and torment.
42. Urge with your foot; here is a cool washing-place
and a drink.
43. And We gave him his family and the like of them
with them, as a mercy from Us, and as a reminder to those possessed of
understanding.
44. And
take in your hand a green branch and beat her with It and do not break
your oath; surely We found him patient; most excellent the servant!
Surely he was frequent in returning (to Allah).
Compare the verse 44 in both translations. They are
certainly not the same. Which one is correct? Let us see the Arabic
version.
وَخُذْ
بِيَدِكَ
ضِغْثًا
فَاضْرِب
بِّهِ
وَلَا
تَحْنَثْ
إِنَّا
وَجَدْنَاهُ
صَابِرًا
نِعْمَ
الْعَبْدُ
إِنَّهُ
أَوَّابٌ
If you understand Arabic a little you certainly can see that Shakir is
accurate and Khalifa is completely off the mark.
However the story is not clear at all. Why it is not
clear? It is because it was Muhammad’s habit to ALLUDE to the stories
that everyone knew passingly without giving any details. If I tell you the
emperor is nude you know what I am talking about because you know the
story of the emperor and his invisible mantle. But if you had never heard
that story, you would not understand what I am talking about. Everyone
knew about the story of Job. Job was a saintly man described in the Bible.
Muhammad erroneously thought he was a prophet. The tale of his suffering
was known to the Arabs as it is known to us.
As for the verse 44 Ibn Khatir in his commentary
explains:
“(And
take in your hand a bundle of thin grass and strike therewith (your wife),
and break not your oath.) Ayyub, peace be upon him, got angry with his
wife and was upset about something she had done, so he swore an oath that
if Allah healed him, he would strike her with one hundred blows.”
This
is really the context of that verse. Of course ضِغ
means fresh bouncy brunch. This is much more painful than the rigid
branch. Ibn Khatir is playing apologist by translating it as thin grass. Without
knowing this context, it is not possible to know what the oath was, who
should be beaten and why. In fact the entire story remains an enigma.
Obviously Rashid Khalifa did not know this background and not properly
understanding the meaning of that verse he made up some thing that still
makes no sense. That is why you need the Tafseer and the sha’ne nozool
and can't dispense the hadith.
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Turning
to monkeys and swines is an allegory indicating their spiritual and
intellectual regression. Similar allegorical language can be found
in the New Testament. For instance, Jesus likens his own people
figuratively to swine and dogs (Matthew 7:6; 2 Peter 2:22 ). Swine
was regarded as the most filthy and the most abhorred of all animals
(Le 11:7; Isa 65:4; 66:3,17; Lu 15:15-16). The Talmudic liturgy
contains narrations about people who transformed into apes because
they attempted to build the tower
of
Babel
.
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This
is already discussed and you are not adding anything new to the discussion.
I see you are quoting from that "distorted" book of Bible.
Obviously you have no problem using any "fabricated fairytale"
as long as it suits your argument. Please know that when I quote the
hadith or the Bible I am doing with the same spirit.
The
Quranic verses are not making a comparison of Jews with apes. They are saying
"be ye apes" and "they were transformed into apes".
All one needs is to understand English or if you like Arabic, to see there
is no allegory here.
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