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Edip Yuksel vs. Ali Sina
Round VII -24
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Edip wrote:
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gave some examples of such motives but you ignored them by a silly
Martian remark. Soundbites might save ones career in political
arena, church, or mosque but not in the market place of ideas. You
ignore the fact that many Islamic and Hislamic scholars have written
volumes of books to identify and expose the piles of stories
imported from Jewish Mishna, Gamarra and Old Testament, which were
called ISRAILIYAT. Sunni and Shiite Muslims adopted many Jewish
stories and practices via those imported Jewish and Christian
fabrications. Knowingly or out of ignorance, you wish to blame
Muhammad and Quran for the deeds of their enemies, that is the
fabricators and followers of hadith (6:112-115)! |
I did not ignore your argument. But do not buy it. They are ratified in
the Quran. Blaming the Jews for fabricating these hadiths is indeed very
Islamic. Muslims blame even the 9/11 on the Jews. Dr. Mahathir, the ex
Prime Minister of Malaysia thought that 12 million Jews control the rest
of mankind and rule over 1.2 billion Muslims by proxy. Only Muslims are so
paranoid that they can indulge in these kinds of fantasies. It would have
been impossible for the Jews who were banished and massacred to have taken
control of the Islamic academia and have written all those incriminatory
hadiths without any Muslim ever noticing the plot. Even if they could have
done such thing through an undisclosed technique of mind control, I see no
gain for the Jews and the Christians to fabricate hadiths that would make
them more vulnerable to Islamic violence. It would have made more sense if
they fabricated hadiths saying Muhammad said respect, love and serve the
Jews and never hurt them. It is just ludicrous to think
that Jews entered in the house of every Muslim who had a book of history
and replaced it with a fabricated one without any Muslim
noticing it. If Jews are capable of that may be you should worship them.
They certainly seem to be more powerful than Muhammad, for having hijacked
his religion without any bloodshed and without anyone noticing.
Stoning
For instance, the Quran does not contain
STONING TO DEATH as punishment for adultery. Guess what we discover
when we search the source of this punishment? We learn that it was
the practice of Jews and ancient pagans. The so-called converted
Jewish scholars inserted their distorted Biblical practice into
Islam by fabricating hadith and fictional chains of narrators. In
order to defend that hadith against the objections of early Muslims,
they even went further by fabricating Quranic verses that do not
exist in the Quran.
How a verse instructing such a big
punishment would be removed from the Quran? Well, there is no limit
for imagination of clergymen, and there is no shortage of gullible
people. The "authentic" hadith books justify the so-called
"literal-but-not-legal" abrogation of the stoning verses
by the following story: "After the Prophet Muhammad's
departure, a hungry holy goat ate the skin where those verses were
written on!"
Now, you would like us to believe the first
half of this Jewish story and ignore the other half! Circumcision is
another of numerous Jewish practices that were centuries later
imported to Islamic faith, after the fertile era of hadith
fabrication ended. They imported that bloody Jewish practice via
sectarian jurisprudence. But, you wish to take Muhammad and Quran
responsible for this unnecessary and harmful Jewish practice that
has survived until modern times. |
You are right. Stoning
is based on hadith (1,
2,
3).
The punishment of stoning is not prescribed in the Quran. But can we
discard it altogether?
Stoning the adulterers
is a law ordained in Deuteronomy 22:23. What Muhammad said about this
Book? He said:
46.12
”And before this, was the Book of Moses as a guide
and a mercy: And this Book confirms (it) in the Arabic tongue; to admonish
the unjust, and as Glad Tidings to those who do right.
Elsewhere he said:
21:7
And We sent not (as Our messengers) before thee
other than men, whom We inspired. Ask the followers of the Reminder if ye
know not?
Muslim scholars,
therefore, instructed by these verses, use Judaic laws wherever Islamic
laws are not clear. Muhammad acknowledged that Moses was inspired and that
the Quran confirms the Torah. Therefore even if you deny the Sunna still
the Judaic law is to be applied.
Now, you may say this is
a misunderstanding of the ulama. That does not seem to be the case but if
so, the fault is with the Quran for not being clear on this mater and for
telling Muslims that the Quran is a confirmation of that book without
explicitly saying which parts of the Torah is abrogated. So if Muslims are
misled, Muhammad is responsible.
Here, I am going to touch them with my
fingers by tickling the twenty-six letters and punctuation marks of
the loyal keyboard of my Muslim laptop. I hope some of these letters
will touch your heart, if you have any, and mind too, and perform
some remote healing
I am not an Evangelical Christian or a
Hislamic who believe blindly (euphemistically: on faith) in the
claims of someone because they just trust that person or the chain
of trust that goes back for many generations. If I were a comrade of
Muhammad, I would perhaps have some idea about his character and
intelligence, but hey, I came to the world centuries after him and I
am not even an Arab. I cannot trust any person whom I have not seen
and lived together especially in a matter that involve my eternal
salvation. I may not even be hundred percent sure about the
trustworthiness of any person, even if I share the same room with
them for all my life. Even if I trust someone hundred percent, that
does not mean whatever that person is claiming is true. Many people
whose honesty we may not reasonably doubt, yet they may honestly
assert nonsensical claims, believe in their hallucinations,
superstitious and false ideas.
So dear Ali, as a philosopher, I demand
extraordinary evidence for extraordinary claims. If trusting
Muhammad's character were the only thing I could have as evidence, I
would not be considering myself of having even an ordinary evidence
for Muhammad's extraordinary claims, let alone an extraordinary one.
I would not be a Muslim. So, go and ask me the follow up question!
Need a clue? Well, it starts with the following phrase: "Then
why do you believe in…." |
Okay, so please give us the reasons for
which you believe in Muhammad.
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