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 Edip Yuksel vs. Ali Sina

Round VII -23

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From this mental junction, the way is short to entertaining the delusion that God (or the equivalent institutional authority) is an active participant in the narcissist's life in which constant intervention by Him is a key feature. God is subsumed in a larger picture, that of the narcissist's destiny and mission. God serves this cosmic plan by making it possible. Indirectly, therefore, God is perceived by the narcissist to be at his service. Moreover, in a process of holographic appropriation, the narcissist views himself as a microcosm of his frame of affiliation, of his group, or his frame of reference. A narcissist is likely to say that he IS the army, the nation, the people, the struggle, history, or (a part of) God. As opposed to healthier people, the narcissist is not talking about representation. He is talking about the embodiment of his class, his people, his race, history, his God, his art – or anything else he feels a part of. This is why individual narcissists feel completely comfortable to play parts usually reserved to groups of people or to some transcendental, divine (or other), authority. It also sits well with the narcissist's all-pervasive feelings of omnipotence and omniscience. In playing God, for instance, the narcissist is completely convinced that he is playing himself. The narcissist does not hesitate to put people's lives or fortunes at risk. He preserves his sense of infallibility in the face of his mistakes and misjudgments by distorting the facts, by evoking mitigating or attenuating circumstances, by repressing memories, or by simply lying.”

As we can see, all these traits were present in Muhammad. So it is logical to conclude that if Muhammad was not a prophet, he was probably a pathological narcissist. Apart from thinking to be the anointed messenger of God, he called himself Khayru-l-Khalq "Best of Creation" and claimed to be exalted above other prophets in degrees (2:253); to be the preferred one (17:55); to have been sent as a “Mercy to the worlds” (21:107); to have been risen “to a praised estate” (17:79) a station which he said none but he would receive and this is "the Station of Intercession at the right of the Glorious Throne". In other words he would be the person whom God will consult in the Day of Judgment to decide who should go to Hell and who should be admitted to Paradise.  

But when you look at the essence of the message itself you find nothing. There is no message. The message is to believe in him and accept him as the best of creation, obey him and love him. The message is "submission". So when you say it is possible to believe in the message of “salvation” of Islam without any regards to the messenger, can you explain what that message is?

You also stated that the corrupt rulers had many reasons to fabricate lies about Muhammad’s personal life. Although it is true that various schools of thought fabricated many hadiths to support their position, it is unreasonable to believe all the hadiths were fabricated. If so what happened to the real history of Muhammad? Why no one reported his life accurately? And what was the gain in portraying Muhammad as a pedophile, a rapist, a lecher, an assassin or a mass murderer? Can you even imagine that such thing could happen today? Is it possible, for example, that the gay Muslims fabricate hadiths portraying Muhammad as a gay man just to justify their position? Such excuse is certainly not logical. Was the entire umma stupid for letting this kind of highjacking of their religion happen under their nose? The only logical conclusion is that Muhammad did really commit all those atrocities and crimes. I agree that if a hadith is utterly contrary to the Quran, it should be suspected. For example the Quran denies that Muhammad performed any miracles, so all the haidths that claim Muhammad performed miracles are fabricated. It is also understandable why people would fabricate such hadiths. But if a hadith is confirmed in the Quran, there is no reason to doubt its authenticity. For example in previous round I quoted a hadith about Muhammad raiding towns. Is this haidth fabricated? No, because it is confirmed in the Quran by verse 7:4 . Or in other hadiths we read that Muhammad killed and enslaved people including the people of the Book. Are these all fabricated? No, because we find Quranic verses that confirm them:

33.26 And those of the People of the Book who aided them - Allah did take them down from their strongholds and cast terror into their hearts. (So that) some ye slew, and some ye made prisoners. 27. And He made you heirs of their lands, their houses, and their goods, and of a land which ye had not frequented (before). And Allah has power over all things.

33:60 “Truly, if the Hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and those who stir up sedition in the City, desist not, We shall certainly stir thee up against them: Then will they not be able to stay in it as thy neighbours for any length of time:
61. They shall have a curse on them: whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain (without mercy).
62. (Such was) the practice (approved) of Allah among those who lived aforetime: No change wilt thou find in the practice (approved) of Allah.

Sira and haidth tell us these verses refer to the massacre of the Bani Quraiza and the enslavement of their wives and children, who lived in a suburb of Medina for nearly 2000 years 1800 years before the arrival of the Arabs and were the neighbors of the Arabs. Here Muhammad says they shall be seized and slain without mercy and indeed sira and hadith tell us this is the fate that these Jews suffered in the hand of Muhammad. So as you see we have hadiths that are fully confirmed. We can’t deny these hadiths without denying the Quran itself. 

There are hadiths that say Muhammad cut and burned trees. One such incident happened when he laid siege on Taif and the other when he declared war on Bani Nadir. In the case of Bani Nadir they agreed to surrender and leave town carrying with them whatever they could carry on their camels. We can’t deny these hadiths because they are confirmed in the Quran:

59.2 It is He Who got out the Unbelievers among the People of the Book from their homes at the first gathering (of the forces). Little did ye think that they would get out: And they thought that their fortresses would defend them from Allah! But the (Wrath of) Allah came to them from quarters from which they little expected (it), and cast terror into their hearts, so that they destroyed their dwellings by their own hands and the hands of the Believers, take warning, then, O ye with eyes (to see)!
3. And had it not been that Allah had decreed banishment for them, He would certainly have punished them in this world: And in the Hereafter they shall (certainly) have the Punishment of the Fire.
4. That is because they resisted Allah and His Messenger: and if any one resists Allah, verily Allah is severe in Punishment.
5. Whether ye cut down the tender palm-trees, or ye left them standing on their roots, it was by leave of Allah, and in order that He might cover with shame the rebellious transgresses.

There are many more examples and I will refer to them as we go on. I think these should suffice to prove that Muhammad was a ruthless man. This can be shown from the Quran itself. However, it is obvious that when one writes a book about himself he tries to justify all his actions and crimes. From the above verses we can see Muhammad is trying to explain his horrendous and treacherous actions for those of his followers who still could not reconcile their blind faith with their conscience. He gloats over the fact that the poor Jews were subdued and were exiled. In their rage they destroyed their houses behind them, carrying the wooden lintels. The Sira tells us that Muhammad wanted to massacre them and Abdullah Ibn Ubay, a chief of an Arab tribe of Yathrib intervened and did not let go of Muhammad’s arms until he relented. The confirmation of that is in verse 3 (above) where he reveals his original intention to “punish them in this world”.  Verse 4 makes it clear that these poor people did not wage any war against Muhammad. Their crime was to “resist Allah and His Messenger”. That is exactly the crime all of mankind is guilty of and that is why the terrorists think it is right to kill the kafir. The terrorists are atatcking us not because what America, Israel or any other country did to the Muslims. They are just killing us becasue we resist submitting to their religion. Verse 5 is a confirmation of the fact that Muhammad cut down tender palm trees.

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