|
| |
 |
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Denis
Giron
Joined: 07 Sep 2002
Posts: 93
Location: New York City, Darul-Kufr
|
 Posted:
Sat Jan 10, 2004 7:58 pm
Post subject: |
 |
|
While I will not put it in as quite harsh a tone as
Spinoza did, I do believe that Nadir will not be coming
back with serious responses to the posts of substance in
this thread. I know that this statement by me also comes
off as abusive towards Nadir, but I assure you that is not
my intention. As I have said nuermous times before (to the
point of it becoming overly repetitive), I have great
respect for Nadir. Nonetheless, I have to note that, from
experience (cf. his usenet
posting history), I know that, when it comes to
text-based exchanges, Nadir generally does not put a very
large amount of time or effort into considering the finer
points of his opponants' arguments. Hence his written
arguments are often lacking. While he continues to
proclaim on several spots on the net that his debate with
me demonstrated indisputable proof that the Qur'an is the
word of God (and, recently, that "hundreds" of
people are converting as a result of this debate), he has
generally ignored the written responses, both here and on
usenet, that have shown otherwise. His web
site gives no real indication that these
objections, which show how seriously lacking his arguments
were, even exist! I find that to be somewhat unfortunate. |
|
| Back
to top |
|
 |
l
l
Joined: 16 Aug 2002
Posts: 1757
|
| Posted:
Sat Jan 10, 2004 9:32 pm
Post subject: |
|
|
| Spinoza wrote: |
Cowering in a cave, hoping that repitious 'Duas'
and mindnumbing Quran recitation will result in
Allaha sending down fire, storm and eternal
punishment upon all us Kafirs, Hypocrites and
Zionists.
Hey, Nadir, if you read this: |
Hello guys and gals,
I have some pearls of wisdom to distribute freely. Their
value and worthiness is to be dtermined by fellow
forummers.
These are free gifts. So taker beware.
Yesterday I wrote an artice which contained facts but was
woven into false tales. Meaning that parts of it were
accurate but in totality it was not acuurate.
There were a bunch of replies, and because I have some
reservoir of good will at FFI due to my longevity and
probably to occasinally writing something worth while. So
the responses were not harsh, rather benign pointing to
inaccuracies in my post. I was well aware of the hyperbole
and inaccuracies.
But my post appealed to and was appaling to depending on
the ideolgy of the reader. But that type of essay would
not enable to reach anyone with contrary outlook at issues
and events.
I could have said everything I said, the accurate and
inaccurate in a very conversational without irritating
anyone.
So to get through to people one must not irritate them.
This is "basic Slaesemanship 101"
above is an introduction which I feel necessary before I
scatter my pearls of wisdom free of charge.
1- Every one knows FFI mission.
2- If FFI reaches non Muslims and educates them about real
Islam which is a rigid, uncompromising, inacable of
coexistence on equal footings then FFI has accomplished a
fraction of the mission.
2-a- If FFI succedes in pursading some Muslims that visit
FFI that Islam should be scrutinized and compared to other
ideolgies in an open mind, then FFI would have
accomplished its major objectives. These Muslims will
become seeds that will be scatteted by wind to grow
elswhere.
Here are my suggestion.
Do not debate giving the impression that the object is to
win the debate. The objective is to engage Muslims
visitors and to carry on a dialogue exposing the Muslims
to new way of thinking. As Ali says, sow the seeds of
doubt. The guy does not have to leave Islam on the spot.
The dialogue on our part could be terminated politely when
we discover that it has become circular spinning but not
getting anywhere.
I believe it is counter productive to jump on Muslims
coming here with 2x4 weilding forummers to clobber him and
prove wrong from the first round. it may take a 100 rounds
to get a crack in the shuttered windows of Islam.
We need to retain and bring more Muslims. We need to use
basic salesmanship 101."
Do not irritate the prospective client.
Make him feel cofortable.
Make him feel which ever the wind blows he is the winner.
I am through.
best regards. |
|
| Back
to top |
|
|
Ali
Sina
Joined: 15 Feb 2002
Posts: 2262
|
| Posted:
Sat Jan 10, 2004 9:39 pm
Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| As I have said nuermous times
before (to the point of it becoming overly
repetitive), I have great respect for Nadir. |
Is that respect owed due to some virtue in Nadir that we
failed to see or is it due to the fact that he has your
phone number and knows where you live? 
Denis, we fail to see any reason for greatly respecting
Nadir. There have been many Muslims here who never agreed
with us yet they deserve our respect because of the way
they behaved. Nadir is not one of them.
Dear Nadir,
Now that (at least in your mind) you are the winner of
this debate, won't you come back and show us more
scientific miracles of the Quran?
You also never responded to the question I asked about the
source of the Quran. You made eight propositions as how
the Quran came to be so "scientific" and said if
none of them is true then we have no choice but to adimit
that it is the work of a higher power. I suggest you make
room also for Satan. If what you say about the Quran is
true and it proves to be scientific, it could be the work
of God but also the work of Satan. Now that you are so
sure that you won this round, do you care to discuss that?
_________________
Doubt everything, find your own light! |
|
| Back
to top |
|
|
bread
Joined: 26 Jul 2003
Posts: 2002
Location: Eurasia
|
| Posted:
Sat Jan 10, 2004 10:12 pm
Post subject: I need your help Mr. Nadir |
|
|
| Quote: |
Dear Nadir,
Now that (at least in your mind) you are the
winner of this debate, won't you come back and
show us more scientific miracles of the Quran? |
Your arguments have convinced me and I am about to convert
to Islam. But there is a lingering doubt in my mind. See,
as Mr. Sina says,
| Quote: |
| If what you say about the Quran is
true and it proves to be scientific, it could be
the work of God but also the work of Satan. |
So you see, I would love to convert to Islam, but I would
have to be re-assured that Quran was inspired by Allah and
not Satan, and That Muhammad was indeed a prophet of Allah
and was not a prophet of Satan.
So can you help me dear brother?
Is there a way to proove Alalh Himself revealed Quran and
not Satan?
Pleas help me remove this last doubt so that I may join
the Ummah.
Sallam,
Bread
_________________
Bread, proudly a former Muslim who saw the light.Islam is
the only personality cult dedicated to a dead man,
MuhamMAD. MuhamMAD is the only paedophile, antisemite,
ethnic cleanser and rapist who is worshipped and praised
for ``moral``behaviour. |
|
| Back
to top |
|
|
Ali
Sina
Joined: 15 Feb 2002
Posts: 2262
|
| Posted:
Sat Jan 10, 2004 10:27 pm
Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Your arguments have convinced me
and I am about to convert to Islam |
Now he is going to quote just this part of your message in
his site and claim more victory.
_________________
Doubt everything, find your own light! |
|
| Back
to top |
|
|
Denis
Giron
Joined: 07 Sep 2002
Posts: 93
Location: New York City, Darul-Kufr
|
| Posted:
Sat Jan 10, 2004 10:29 pm
Post subject: |
|
|
Pax
Vobis Dr. Sina
| Ali Sina wrote: |
| Is that respect owed due to some
virtue in Nadir that we failed to see or is it due
to the fact that he has your phone number and
knows where you live? |
Sigh. Actually,
you sort of skimmed the reason on both counts. Nadir does
in fact have my phone number, and I have talked with him
over the phone. It is from what I know of him via email
and discussion over the phone that I derive my respect for
him. He seems to me like a stand-up guy, even if in this
forum he has let the whole sayful-Islaam
("sword of Islam") act get a little out of
control in terms of the amount of disdain he exhibits for
those who (allegedly) have fallen or, in your case, are
falling to the sword.
Also, as you know (or in case you forgot, as it has been
mentioned in this forum I believe), MENJ also has my how
address, as do a few other Muslims on the net. I'm not
worried about violence - these simply aren't those kind of
folks.
Nonetheless, yes, I understand that Nadir's behavior on
this forum and the nature of his FFI-related pieces on his
site might cause other posters here to not hold him in as
high a regard as I do. Keep in mind however, that the net
can get the best of us, and for most of us we are rather
different people in person compared with how we behave
online.
Quickly, regarding this Satan bit, while you guys find it
humorous, I wouldn't be surprised if it winds up on the
net that Dr. Sina and his cohort have "admitted"
that the scientific miracles of the Qur'an are too many to
conclude that a mere mortal wrote this text, and in a
desparate last ditch response they have claimed Satan was
the author. Of course I get your satire, but if someone
posts something like that on the net, most of the cyber-mujahideen
who will read it will simply assume it is true and not
bother to check the actual posts for context. |
|
| Back
to top |
|
|
trubluearthling
Joined: 31 Dec 2003
Posts: 27
Location: New Kafirland
|
| Posted:
Sat Jan 10, 2004 10:48 pm
Post subject: |
 |
|
Dear Ali Sina
you wrote:
| Quote: |
Dear Nadir,
Now that (at least in your mind) you are the
winner of this debate, won't you come back and
show us more scientific miracles of the Quran?
|
Please be kind to Mr Nadir Ahmed. The intellectual
capacity of this gentleman has been analysed. He scores
poorly. It was by some twist of fate that he was born in
this era of knowledge and enlightenment. Gullible folks
like him deserve to live in the 7th century where they'll
get plenty of others to fool and to be fooled by.
I think Nadir is out here with his publicity gimmick to
attract visitors to his website. He has an ego the size of
a cricket field. With a bruised ego that big it will be a
while before you'll hear from him again.
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
 |
|
Go to page 12
| |
|
