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Finally the team behind Faithfreedom.com
a site created to "expose my lies" are communicating with me and have
started to expose my lies. I am extremely grateful to them and thank
them for their dedication to truth. They kept saying all I say is lie,
so I wrote in their Guestbook and asked them to pinpoint some of my
lies. They invited me to have
a live voice chat with them, and here is the rest of our correspondence.
please visit this page frequently as I hope that our debate will be
productive and educational.
A
challenge for faithfreedom.org: Once again, we would like to offer you
the opportunity to debate with us, live over the Internet, using
voice chat. All actions will be taken in order to hide your
identity.
Sina
wrote:
I would like to ask you what is wrong in debating through written
communication? You are more than welcome to use this
forum. I would be
also happy to exchange emails.
ff.com
Using your forum would be the greatest mistake of our Internet careers.
Your hate inspired fans with their anti-Islamic sentiment and highly
offensive slurs are the main reasons which prompted us to have our own
web presence.
Sina
Anyone who visits our forum can see that what we cannot be accused of is
hatemongering. We are humanists and love all humanity. We come from all
religious backgrounds and it is the love of humanity that unites us. The
reason we dislike Islam is because according to our understanding Islam
is divisive and causes hate. We hate Islam for the same reason we hate
Nazism, KKK or any other racist ideology. However if you do not wish to
write in our forum, we can continue our debate by writing in our own
sites. Just as we are doing now.
Sina
I prefer written communication to voice chat because:
Written communication is produced with more care and there is
time to back up one’s claims with supporting documents. In voice chat
one can say anything he or she wishes even lies, because supporting
documentations cannot be readily available.
ff.com
Written communication sure gives people ample time to produce documents
which support their claims but simultaneously gives them ample time to
concoct stories and get away with it. Using voice chat it becomes a
little bit more difficult for both parties to do rebuttals, do you fear
you may not have the knowledge at hand? We have the knowledge at hand,
therefore it poses no problem for us. Your versions of events are quite
evidently taken from anti-Islamic sources which deduce an altogether
different version of events, are these your supporting documents? A real
man would rise to the challenge without hesitation, he would argue for
what he believes.
Sina
If
you find something concocted by me, you have the opportunity to
demonstrate that to the world and that will prove that I am a liar. So I
don't think that is something that should concern you rather you should
look forward to it as this will give you the ammunition to discredit me
once and for all and the case will be closed.
As for me fearing not to have the knowledge at hand, you may be
right. I never made any claims about my knowledge, I do not want to
promote myself and I am not running for any office. This is not about me
at all. There are many things I don't know but my ignorance does not
make Islam a true religion. What I know is enough to show that Islam is
a false belief and Muhammad was an impostor.
Sina
In written communication ideas collide while in voice chat personalities
clash. In religious discussions often emotions are heightened and the
debate is reduced to name-callings and adhominems. I have hardly seen
any debate with a Muslim where Islam has been under attack without the
Muslim insulting the accuser and trying to win the argument through
arrogance and rudeness. I am not willing to step into that quagmire.
ff.com
Mr Sina, you assume way too much. Personalities may clash but within a
“sensible” debate involving “sensible” people its not going to
happen, is it? Name-calling? Once again Mr Sina, you belittle Muslims
too much. After dealing with many non-Muslims on the Internet, using
voice chat, I am truly proud to be a Muslim, my brothers and sisters
have lead by example, refraining from cursing those who curse them and
not showing any kind of hate towards those who hate them. The postings
under your “Muslim comments” section are laughable to say the least.
I really cant imagine somebody writing to you in the nicest possible
manner and ending the letter with a swear word or two! Just who are you
trying to convince?
Sina
I am pleased to hear that. I am sure you are a
decent person and would not start cursing those with whom you disagree.
But you believe in Muhammad who invited his opponents to a round of
cursing and invoking Allah's wrath on each other to prove who is right
and who is wrong and my own experience show that often Muslim recourse
to cursing and even adhominem when they fail to find satisfactory
answers.
003.061
YUSUFALI: If any one disputes in this matter with thee,
now after (full) knowledge Hath come to thee, say: "Come! let us
gather together,- our sons and your sons, our women and your women,
ourselves and yourselves: Then let us earnestly pray, and invoke the
curse of Allah on those who lie!"
I find it difficult to believe
that any sensible person in this day and age would find cursing as a
valid conflict resolution.
Sina
Written communications can be posted on our sites and thousands of
people can read it. Voice chat is lost after it is over and who knows
how many people can listen to it at the time that is convenient for the
debaters.
ff.com
With
written communication, we would not be dealing with only you but all
those around you as well. People such as yourself, to the average Tom,
Dick or Harry come across as very convincing because you deliberately
choose to tell half-truths and fabricate stories which are most
favourable to their ideals and needs.
Sina
Okay, now you have your chance to expose
my lies once and for all and save “the average Tom. Dick and Harry”.
So let's get to work.
ff.com
Each and every reply we give will be horrendously scrutinised by the
agenda-holding fans of yours. The point in question will be disregarded
and a whole series of new points will be thrown at us, chunk by chunk.
One often finds its not a rebuttal which forces people to end
participation in a written debate but the sheer volume of people one has
to deal with. It’s highly time consuming and can be very tedious.
Sina
That is fine. You don't want to use our forum? There is no obligation.
Your team against me is fine with me. Our "confrontation" is
intellectual not physical. I am of the opinion that one person who says
the truth is more powerful than the entire humanity who believes in a
lie. Galileo proved my point.
Sina
When the man you call prophet assassinated his opponents, when the great
Islamic scholars encourage Muslims to lie to forward the advancement of
Islam and when you believe in a deity who by your own prophet’s
admission is Khairul Makerin (the best of deceivers), I would be a fool
to jeopardize my life and trust the "protection" that you
offer me. You are a Muslim and it is your religious duty to kill the
apostates. As long as you believe in Islam I see you as my potential
assassin and would rather stay safe.
ff.com
The above is not an accurate account of events at all. I refuse to
answer the above points within this reply. Your tactic of changing the
topic in discussion has been employed once again, and I will not fall
for it this time. Stick with the issue at hand. I’d like to meet the
Western Muslim who is willing to assassinate you on Western land. No, Mr
Sina, you are deluding yourself and the public. Those particular
apostates (some of whom were spy's) mentioned in the Hadith (if the
Hadith is correct), were I'm sure dealt with in a manner which was most
appropriate at the time.
Sina
Yes this is a separate topic and I do not expect you to respond to is in
this moment. But I did not raise it to change the subject but rather to
make my point. We will get to that in due time and I look forward to
your enlightening explanation.
But allow me to disagree with you on your claim that a western
Muslim would not assassinate for Islam. I believe the American. British
and the Australian Jihadis (Muslim terrorists) that were found in the
recent events prove that terrorism is not the exclusivity of the Middle
Easterners but rather a peculiarity of Islamism. Also I don't think an
intelligent person like you would actually jeopardize his reputation and
freedom and assassin me. However what keeps you passing the information
that you have about me to your religious brethren who are more than
willing to kill me? (Read comments from Muslims in my site) With
all due respect, as long as you are a Muslim you are a potential
terrorist and this is the message that I want to communicate to the
world. My objective is to show through Quran and Hadith that Islam
means terrorism. When everyone (including the Muslims) learns about this
bitter truth, no one would like to be called with the name of Islam.
Muslims will leave Islam, they will be embarrassed to be known by this
name and calling someone a Muslim would be taken as an insult just as
calling someone a Nazi is considered to be an insult to many today.
ff.com
And you know full well what the Quran teaches about apostates, yet you
deliberately delude the people into believing those verses are indeed
speaking of apostates - We are working on this at present.
Sina
Yes I know what Quran teaches about
apostates and this is a subject that we shall definitely discuss in our
future correspondence.
ff.com
Once again you choose to conceal the surrounding events behind each of
those Hadith and prompt the reader to assume the worst in every
situation. Your comments are in fact so derogatory one often finds it
difficult to concentrate. To see the same old nonsense repeated so
casually by you, even after the immense number of refutations, is truly
indicative of your mentality.
Sina
Let us leave that judgment to our
readers.
Sina
I posted one message in your Guestbook and you deleted the URL of my
site that I had placed. What are you afraid of? You created your site
dedicated to expose my lies and I immediately made a link to your site
from mine and encouraged everyone to see it. Why did you remove link to
my site?
ff.com
We have your websites URL listed in our “list of anti-Islamic websites
section” – This has always been the case. Please do not knowingly
conceal your knowledge of this matter - you know full well how certain
search engines work. We have one link to your site, and you have one for
us.
Sina
Oh, so is that why you deleted the link
to my site? Thank you for clarifying it. Now I understand! ;-)
ff.com
Also, I see on your forums some of your fans have claimed we have
deleted certain guest entries and we are now guilty of censorship.
Please let them know we also deleted some very offensive comments and
the usual racial banter. At the same we chose to delete guest entries
which we felt were really questions. We did not delete them to run away
from the point in question. We are working to answer these claims at
present, and how repetitive they are!
Sina
Well my friend you don't have a forum.
Your Guestbook is the only place people can post. You could respond to
those questions anyway or create a page dedicated to responding the
questions that are raised in the Guestbook.
Sina
This action of your speaks volumes of how sure are you of your own
faith. But very unfortunately for you and luckily for me you made a huge
mistake that you won’t be able to rectify. You chose the name of our
organization that is dedicated to expose Islam’s lies for your site.
This will certainly bring more visitors to our site and the truth is
always stronger than falsehood.
ff.com
To be frank with you Mr Sina, when we discovered the domain was not
already registered we immediately new it was a divine miracle! Please do
not elevate your position. Many people have written in to say had it not
been for the minor typo they would have thought Ali Sina remains
unchallenged and are ever grateful for our presence.
Sina
I am sure that must have been a miracle.
But who will benefit from this miracle only time will reveal.
I did not know so many people
thought I am unchallenged. That is quiet encouraging. But please tell
them that Ali Sina is just an average guy with an average knowledge and
average understanding. (Oh well this is how I think of my self. My
opponents have a much less opinion about me. As usual the truth is
somewhere in between.) The reason I have remained “unchallenged” has
nothing to do with my intelligence or learning. It has to do with the
power of reason. I speak with commonsense. Although the commonsense is
not very much common, it is the most effective weapon to win every
argument. Try it! With your superior knowledge you’ll become truly
invincible.
ff.com
If in the end it brings more visitors to your site, we are not bothered
by that at all. So long as people have the opportunity to make a choice
between your hate-filled propaganda and our refutations, we remain
pleased.
Sina
My site is not hate-filled and this is
clear to any unbiased person. My message is the message of love, of
unity of humanity, of equality of rights between men and women, of
democracy, of freedom of thought and conscience, or abolition of racial
and religious prejudices and of independent thinking. Fighting hate is
la raison d'etre of my site and my message.
To give people this opportunity to make the choice I will make
sure they see your site too by placing a link to it and inviting them to
visit your site.
ff.com
We have already received several emails from non-Muslims
encouraging us to debate with you, some of these people come across as
very objective and lend an open ear to us as well as you – which is a
healthy thing.
Sina
That
is what I asked you all along!
Sina
See what Islam teaches regarding the permissibility to lie:
“speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praise
worthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is
unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it.
When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling
the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible
“ (Ref: Ahmad Ibn Naqib al-Misri, The Reliance of the Traveller,
translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller , Amana publications, 1997, section
r8.2, page 745).”
Of course no one would lie if he or she can achieve his objective by
saying the truth so “lying is unlawful when you can achieve your
objective by saying the truth” is redundant and ridiculous. The crux
of this message is that lying is permissible.
ff.com
How demeaning it is to know I am dealing with someone with the mentality
and reading ability of a child.
Sina
Didn't you say that you won't debase yourself
insulting me? It didn't take you much to break your own oath. Do you
really want me to trust you with my life? My dear! I was born a Muslim.
My linage with Islam dates back to Muhammad himself through his daughter
Fatima. I don't know for how long you have been a Muslim, but I know
Islam inside out. I lied for this religion too, and I know too well how
low Muslims can descend to defend this cult.
ff.com
The bottom line of the message is: If the situation is dire you may lie
to achieve the goal. What that goal is I will leave up to you to ponder
upon. As a “former” Muslim you should be fully aware of the basic
principle in Islam, which is “Necessity relaxes prohibition”. Thus
the flesh of swine is permissible if the situation is life-threatening.
Lies are also permissible if the situation is life-threatening. No doubt
you will twist this to make the reader believe “Islam says its ok to
tell porkies!” It really bothers me when you say “I was a Muslim”.
Whilst I’m not denying apostates from all religions exist, you most
certainly are a dubious example!
Sina
Well, that is an interesting explanation.
But just like other explanations of the apologists of Islam that meaning
is not clear from the text itself.
As for your doubt about my Islamic background, you may as well
consider me a "paid agent of the ZIC “Zionist International
Conspiracy” (Oh you haven’t heard of them yet? It is because it is a
secret organization) and assume that my real name is Ishaq Yahoodi. Does
that really change anything? Does that make my claims against Muhammad
and Islam any less relevant?
Sina
When I say Muslims lie I support my
claim providing valid documentation. But you keep calling me a liar and
you have created a site to expose my lies. Why don’t you expose one of
my lies? I repeat again if you show that what I say about Muhammad is
lie I will remove my site. Is that fair?
Here are few of my claims.
Muhammad was an assassin killing his opponents al Mafioso
just like any other gangster godfather. He assassinated people whose
crime was to write a poetry ridiculing him.
Muhammad was a mass murderer like Hitler. He invaded the Jewish
populations of Arabia who called that land home for 2000 years and
massacred them, looted their properties and enslaved their women and
children. He virtually ethnically cleansed Hijaz from Jews and
Christians.
Muhammad was a pedophile: Any man who can lust after a 6 or 9-year-old
child is a pedophile. If this was culture of the Arabs of 7th century
Muhammad should have not followed it. He claimed to be a messenger of
God. He should have known better. You say Arabs used to bury their
newborn daughters and Muhammad prohibited that. (I doubt that this was a
common practice or there would not have been so many women for each Arab
to marry few of them.) Why Muhammad did not prohibit the shameful
culture of marriage to minors but rather sanctioned it by practicing it
himself?
Muhammad was a narcissist and a schizophrenic. He used to see jins,
speak with them and spend a night in their town. Why should we believe
that such man was not hallucinating when he claimed to see Gabriel?
Muhammad was a lustful man who after the death of his beloved wife
Khadijah used women as sex objects and at that old age married, and had
sex without marriage with a score of women. He even banned a great
custom like adoption to satisfy his sexual appetite with his own
daughter in law Zeinab.
Okay that is enough for now. Please disprove one of these accusations
that I make against Muhammad and if you succeed my site will be a
history. This is a promise.
ff.com
You have been writing articles on the Internet for several years now, we
for about a week! Little by little we hope to answer your every claim.
We have had a tremendous response from others who are willing to
contribute. It’s neither clever nor funny of you to intimidate us in
such a fashion, when you know full well how much work we have to do in
such a short space of time.
Sina
I agree. You are new and you need time. I look forward to your
refutations and I am sure many are looking forward to it too. I will try
to promote this page so everyone can see how you defeat me. This I don'
t say out of sarcasm. But honestly should you prove me wrong I would
remove my site. This is a promise. Now may I ask you to promise NOT to
remove your site should I win the arguments? I say this because prior to
you there was a site called "ali_sina_exposed" hosted by a
free server that had even a picture of my childhood (It was taken when I
used to look like a monkey lol). I loved that site and made a link to it
asking everyone to visit it. But to my dismay the Webmaster deleted it.
I just want you to promise me that this won't happen to your site.
ff.com
We not only have to clarify your version of the Quran and Hadith, but
have the mammoth task of educating you about Islam's history, societies,
cultures and traditions of past, together with a reminder of the
physical make up of human beings 1400 years ago. It may come across as
surprising but we are working individuals who struggle to devote time to
your absurd writings. We already know not much by way of explanation can
be done to convince you, since you are quite evidently in a league of
your own. You even accuse worldly renown historians and theologians of
being politically correct at the expense of your perceived truth.
Sina
I don't know how many people are in your
"team" but I am just one person and have to work long hours to
make ends meet. (Unfortunately these Jews never acknowledged my service
to their cause and they never sent me a dime, not even a thank you. Oh
well Jews are known for that lol)
ff.com
Whilst we are what you would term “orthodox Muslims”. We look upon
Hadith a lot more critically than you. We are not oblivious to the
manner in which they were collected and the time after the Prophets
death they were collected. You are fully aware Hadith are not taken as
100% fact by all Muslims in the world. Many claim you use unauthentic,
unverified Hadith to back up your claims, this is a matter we are yet to
be sure of. We will first of all concentrate on answering your claims
regarding the Quran and its teachings. Later on throughout our, I’m
sure, glorious careers we will concentrate on relating to you the events
behind certain Hadith which you claim show Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) to be
a criminal. Just remember to every story there are two sides and a
million interpretations, you most certainly are a deviation from the
norm.
Sina
Believe me, coming from the Shiite background I
never gave any importance to Hadith especially Bukhari and Muslim. As a
matter of fact I read these books only after I discovered the fallacy of
Islam. But despite the lies and exaggerations in these collections I
think they are important because they are the only historic source about
Muhammad. I do not think Hadith should be taken as source of guidance (I
don't think this even of Quran) But as a researcher I find hadith an
invaluable source of information about Muhammad and his character.
Hadith is the biography of Muhammad.
ff.com
How far we have come from the original topic in question! But I was
expecting that.
Kindest
of regards,
Faithfreedom.com
Team
Sina
I truly thank you for this debate. I am extremely busy and was getting
annoyed of the emails I receive daily from Muslims telling me exactly
the same things without even bothering to read a few articles to know at
least who I am and what I say. I was really looking to a meaningful
debate. But as I said I have very few hours during the night. Now is
3:20 am and by the time I post this message in my site it will be close
to 4 am. And I have to get up at 7 and go to work. So please forgive me
if there is going to be some delay in responding to you. But if I may
suggest, let us keep our emails short with each email containing one or
just a few topics so we write with more details and our readers don't
find our discussion tedious.
With my best regards
Ali Sina
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