From tanveer hussain

Dear Ali,

Thanks very much for your response. There are two points of references here. One is Quran and the other one is history. Whenever there comes a contradiction between the two, I prefer Quran, the reason being simple that there were many people who had learnt it by heart, word by word and this has provided a cross-checking mechanism. The fact that still on this day there are hundreds of thousands of individuals who have learnt this book by heart. So my thinking is that whenever there comes a contradiction between history and Quran, Quran should be taken as more authentic point of reference. Now there is one account of Muhammad's character given in history and the other one given in Quran. I prefer the one in Quran, the reason is that which I have just mentioned. Quran says that Muhammad did things according to the revalation that is now in Quran. He did not do anything that was in contradiction with Quranic principles.Now Quran says, you cannot have sex out of wedlock and also prescribes a punishment for it. Since Muhammad did not do anything against Quran, he must not have done what you suggest he did according to historical accounts.

You said muslims have been adamently following hadiths for 1200 years. It may be said for majority of muslims but not for all. Abu Hanifa took little help from Hadith while compiling his jurisprudence. The early rightly guided caliphs did not feel any need to compile Hadiths. [ all the compilers of hadith books are non-arabs]. They thought Quran is a complete guidance. It gives guiding principles about everything of significance. The details and the rest of the affairs are to be decided by mutual consultations, after all, people need to use their own minds as well. Even if all the history books were lost , we would have still known who was Muhammad through Quran. In fact, when Halaku khan invaded Baghdad, millions of books were burned and so many were thrown in Euphrates that its water became colourd. Even without history books, we can know Muhammad and his teachings through Quran.

One crucial thing which we must not forget is that Islam was implemented in stages. In fact any system is better implemented in stages i.e. through evolution. You also believe in evolution and have written about it. I give you example from Quran about stage-wise implementation of Islam. When prayer was ordered, at that time, drinking was not still forbidden, but the order was not to pray while drunk. But later on drinking was also forbidden. Another example is the economic system given by Quran. First stage is SADQA, which is to give to others some help in an amount and time that you are happy with. Next stage is the taxation, Zakat, a fixed amount that you must pay to the state. The last stage is when the social wefare system comes into place. when you will work with your full effort but keep only what you need.

Now when references will be given from Quran, the last order in the implmentation stages would be taken as a reference. However, if islam will be started to be implemented in a new region, it again will be implemented in stages. All the things will not be ordered overnight because that would not have the lasting effect. You will have to change the people's minds slowly and steadily alongwith passing and implementing laws.

So I judge Muhammad's character according to Quran. I am not keen on history. By the way, Quran also tells one important thing that might be a good guide for both of us to use our mind on. It says, these are the people of the past, they will earn according to what they did and you and I will earn according to what we do. I think instead of proving who did what, (which I believe cannot be any productive act but can be rather counterproductive because it would be just another act for hate-mongering), the minds should be used on better things that ought to be done.

So you say between the history and the Quran you choose the latter because in your opinion it is more reliable.

That is fine. Let us not take into account the hadithes that contradict the Quran. As a matter of fact this was one of the criteria used by Mohadetheen (doctors of Hadith) to classify them and if a Hadith was not in accordance with the Quran they would not accept it as sahih (authentic). Therefore all the hadithes of Bukhari and Muslim are in agreement with the Quran.

As a matter of fact I did not say anything against Muhammad that is not also ratified in the Quran. Rape of the women captured in war is instructed in the Quran (33:50) (4:24) (23:6), (70:30). Beating of the wife if disobedient is instructed in the Quran (4:34) (20:18). Maiming and crucifying people for petty crimes and disbelief is instructed in the Quran (5:33), (5:38), (7:124). Waging war against the unbelievers and making Jihad is instructed in the Quran (2:193), (2:216), (8:12), (8:15-16), (8:60), (8:65), (9:5). Looting people and taking their belonging including themselves as spoils of war is instructed in the Quran (8:1) (8:41).

Quran is at textbook of terror. The Hadithes simply confirm what the Quran preaches. Denouncing the Hadith has become the favorite excuse of the Muslims who see clearly that the history of Islam is a bloody one. They are embarrassed by it and try to discredit it. However, the Quran is no less a violent book. This book is filled with errors and riddled with contradictions, absurdities and fallacies. But above all the Quran is a book of hate and terror. No decent person can stand the brutality of this book. I realized Islam is a devilish cult and the Quran is the hallucination of a psychopath when I read that book. We do not need the Hadith and the bloody history of Muhammad to prove that this man was an evil man. The Quran suffices.

However, a caveat: When you read that book, keep in mind that the Quran was “revealed” by no one but Muhammad himself. This book is no revelation of any god but the hallucination of one man. Allah was just an imaginary friend of Muhammad that existed in the fantasies of this sick man. He is no more real than the monster beneath the bed of your 5-year-old child. Let us accept that this universe has a creator, Muhammad did not have any revelations or contact with the creator of this universe. Some times he had schizophrenic experiences and at other times he simply lied. Muhammad had severe NPD (Narcissistic Pathological Disorder). (See this article) People who suffer from this emotional disorder have their reality and fantasy mixed up. In his book Muhammad puts words in the mouth of Allah to praise him and tell people that they should obey him. See Quran (3:32), (3:132), (4:13), and repeated ad nauseam (002.285 003.032 003.132 004.013 004.059 004.069 005.092 008.001 008.020 008.024 008.046 009.071 024.047 024.051 024.052 024.054 033.033 047.033 049.007 049.014 058.013 064.012 )

This secret, invisible friend of Muhammad was ready to bend any rule to satisfy the needs of his prophet. When he fights with his wives he makes this invisible friend to come to his assistance and threaten his wives. In such occasion the maker of this vast universe intervenes in the marital fights of Mr. Mo and his wives. And warns them that “It may be, if he divorced you (all), that Allah will give him in exchange consorts better than you,- who submit (their wills), who believe, who are devout, who turn to Allah in repentance, who worship (in humility), who travel (for Faith) and fast,- previously married or virgins. Quran (66.5) (Obviously Allah does not know how to speak properly and instead of referring to himself in first person he calls himself by name and refers to himself in third person. That is how my 3 year old niece talks).

In another occasion his Allah assures Muhammad:

See how this man fooled everyone? So he gave himself permission to have sex with anyone he pleased. Those whom he paid dowers, (his wives) his slave girls that he captured in his brutal raids, and anyone who offered herself to him. And then he says “this only for thee, and not for the Believers”.

Where was this god that is so concerned about the sexual needs of his favorite prophet and worries lest he is subjected to sexual deprivation, when Muhammad was young and had his vigor intact? How come Allah did not provide so many sex partners of him when he was young and he ended up marrying an older woman and only when he become powerful at his old age, managing to fool people to do what he willed, Allah remembered that his prophet has insatiable sexual needs and gave him not one, not two, not five, not ten but 20 young wives, concubines and right hand possessions in order that there should be no difficulty for him?

My friend; please read the stories of cults and cult leaders and compare them to Islam and Muhammad. Muhammad was no prophet. He was a cult leader like David Koresh or the crazy John de Ruiter and Islam was a tool for him to get to power, make people go to war for him, kill and be killed and bring fifth of what they looted to him. Islam was a perfect way for him to have ultimate control over the mind and the soul of his foolish and gullible followers. Those who believed in him were idiots. Intelligent Arabs did not believe in him. They called him lunatic and derided at him. It was through force that he managed to impose his religion on the people. After he was dead, no one could see what an evil monster was this man. They kept lying and fooling themselves with more lies just as the Muslims are doing it now. Please come to your senses and see how this mad man fooled us and fooled so many people. It is time of reckoning. It is time to wake up. The world is heading towards destruction. Wake up now before it is too late.

This man was a narcissist and a master of manipulation. When he lusted after his own daughter in law, at first he was overwhelmed by shame because he was breaking a code of ethics. However his lust took the better hold of him and he made his Allah break all the norms of decency to make going to bed with his daughter in law, “lawful”. See the words that he puts in the mouth of his imaginary Allah and how he even rebukes himself for hiding what his heart desires.

In another occasion when he had sex with Mariyah, the maid of his wife Hafzah, and upon Hafzah discovering it and making a scene, he promised to not have sex with Mariyah again. But he could not control himself and to break his word again he made his Allah to license him his lewdness:

And then he tells his wives to go to hell because he will divorce them if they complain. Quran (66:5) because according to his twisted mind his maids and the maids of his wives were all for him to enjoy and Allah has made them lawful to him.

See how he manipulated people with this lie of being a messenger of God? Everything he said in the Quran is stupid and wrong. Why don’t you read the Quran with a rational mind and see the truth for yourself? That is what I did; you can do it too. You do not have to be a genius. All you have to be is fair. Be fair to yourself, be honest to yourself and you will soon realize what a big fraud is Islam. Look at the miserable state that Muslims find themselves across the planet. This is the direct result of following a mad man. What future will tell of us? That in the age of space travels, nano technology,

genetic engineering and Internet one fifth of the humanity was following a mad man of the 7th century. They will unearth the body of this crazy man and analyze his DNA and all his metal diseases become manifest to everyone.

The funniest part of this man's childish game is that at times he makes Allah to admonish him and as if overtaken by guilt like child that overstepped his limits he prohibits himself from marrying any more women. But even then he cannot control himself and allows himself to continue having free sex with his right hand possessions and the women that he would capture in his future raids. .

You wrote:
"So I judge Muhammad's character according to Quran. I am not keen on history."

Is this an honest approach? Quran is what Muhammad wrote. It is his words. The history is the words of others about him. Any criminal will call himself innocent. If he is a narcissist he honestly believes himself to be the best man in the world. Narcissists have an unrealistically high opinion of themselves. Muhammad in several occasions says he is the best example among men, and some one to emulate. He actually calls himself the mercy of God among the men. This reminds me of Saddam’s opinion of himself. He thought the Iraqis including the Christians are ready to die for him. Just like Muhammad, Hitler and other narcissists, Saddam confused reality with fantasy. He actually believed that those benighted people who marched in the streets chanting slogans against America would eventually make war against Bush and topple him and he will continue to rule Iraq. Muhammad was another narcissist. But unlike Hitler and Saddam, he did not face a force like America to smash his nose and thus he grew and his cult kept growing.

It is time that we put an end to this insanity. Enough of lying to ourselves and lying to our children! Let us face the truth now. Muhammad was a sick man who lied. Islam is not a religion but a cult. I have proven this beyond a shadow of doubt. This truth will keep spreading, as more and more people will read this site and hundreds of other sites that are burgeoning throughout the Internet. Soon everyone will know the truth and Islam will fall. This is the day of liberation of Muslims. This is our renaissance. Our miseries are over. We will be free – free from ignorance, free from violence, free from hate, free from bigotry, “FREE AT LAST…FREE AT LAST …FREE AT LAST”.

Dear Ali,

Firstly about Quran. You have said Quran is what Muhammad wrote while in other places you say that Muhammad did not know reading and writing. Anyway, you are simply wrong to say that Quran was written by Muhammad himself. It was the earliest book written in the Islamic History, not by Muhammad by others.

You have digressed too much in giving so many references irrelevent to the topic under discussion which is the character of Muhammad. You have brought in many references that are related to other issues. It is certainly because of the fact that you could not find many relavent references to prove your point. I would only comment about those references in which you have tried to paint a bad picture of Muhammad. I will come back to other references later when they will be topic of our discussion. In all the references in which you have tried to paint a bad picture of Muhammad, you have highlighted words of your choice and missed deliberately the key words to emphasize. See some examples in the following:

You have quoted 33:52.

It is not lawful for thee (to marry more) women after this, nor to change them for (other) wives, even though their beauty attract thee, except any thy right hand should possess (as handmaidens): and Allah doth watch over all things. Quran (33:52)

Just read carefully,

IT IS NOT LAWFUL TO MARRY....EXCEPT ANY RIGHT HANDS.

look at the word MARRY

You have quoted 66:1

O Prophet! Why holdest thou to be forbidden that which Allah has made lawful to thee?

You have not read the remaining part of the verse, i.e.

seeking to please your WIVES

Look carefully at WIVES

You have quoted 33/37

Behold! Thou didst say to one who had received the grace of Allah and thy favour: "Retain thou (in wedlock) thy wife, and fear Allah." But thou didst hide in thy heart that which Allah was about to make manifest: thou didst fear the people, but it is more fitting that thou shouldst fear Allah. Then when Zaid had dissolved (his marriage) with her, with the necessary (formality), We joined her in marriage to thee: in order that (in future) there may be no difficulty to the Believers in (the matter of) marriage with the wives of their adopted sons, when the latter have dissolved with the necessary (formality) (their marriage) with them. And Allah's command must be fulfilled. (33:37)

O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. Quran (33:50)

You have quoted 4/24. You missed 4/25, where the talk is about marrying the right hand ones.

You have tried a lot to twist the interpretation of the verses but to no avail. You forget that you do not have the only copy of Quran. Others will also have access to Quran to check your references.

In your debate you do little reasoning but more slandering. You know what, slandering is the easiest thing to do and reasoning is a bit more difficult thing. Slandering is what wicked people can best do. I expect from you more of the reasoning.

I think I already laid out my case and therefore do not see the need to respond to your message. So I let you have the last word on this topic.