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For
the complete debate with materialists see this
list
Sina Responds to Truthspeaker
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| also considered many a shows on TV as amusing
and entertaining but not as reliable sources for accurate
information. |
Your opinion is respected. But it also could be informed by your
preconceived ideas.
Here we are not talking about “amusing TV shows” this was a
documentary where real doctors with their names appeared to talk about
the strange “miraculous” cases of recoveries of their patients. The
patients were filmed and their gradual recovery was shown on tape. You
may like to think all those guys are paid actors, I respect your opinion
but I do not call it objective.
This reminds me of a Sheikh from the Al Azhar who kept insisting that
the 9/11 was not the work of any Muslim. When the reporter told him that
Bin Laden had taken responsibility for it, he said this is all politics
that Bin Laden is playing.
I don’t think anything can satisfy one who simply is not after the
truth but has a selective mind and sees ONLY things that confirm his
bias.
If I could convince a Muslim who keeps saying Aisha was 18 when Muhammad
married her I would probably be able to convince the materialists too.
The evidence of energy therapy is more compelling than the age of Aisha.
I wonder why we decry Muslims when we have the same mindset!
Your denial only proves one thing. That materialism is a faith. It is
based on beliefs and not facts. It is much easier for you to believe all
these doctors showing their faces on TV, giving their names and the
hospital where they work, and their patients are actors than accept the
fact that perhaps they are right. This is really a more deeply rooted
problem of human psychology and I don’t know how to deal with it.
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| The issue is do I want to spend time and money
to find out whether the offer for fantastic deal diamonds is
real or not. So far I have decided that the chances of a payoff
is very slim and it is smarter to walk away. |
That is fair enough. No one is asking you to care about anything. As I
said there is a Flat Earth Society that sneers at anyone claiming the
Earth is round. No one is forcing them to change their belief either.
But in the interest of honesty and truth, someone must stand up to this
nonsense and call a spade a spade. What we see from the pseudo skeptic
community is not critical thinking but dogmatic denial.
I have no problem with people who want to live with their heads under
the sand, whether religionists or materialists. But I feel it is
important to talk about it and I won't be bullied to silence. I have
been always on the side of facts and truth. I was never afraid to be a
maverick. This led me out of religion and I think is the right
methodology. This is the methodology I am teaching to others. But you
are not forced to accept this methodolgy. If belief works for you, be my
guest.
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| There is no doubt that there are many many many
things that we cannot explain and predict. In attempting to
understand and explain these 'things', what framework should be
employed. If the framework is within the present scientific
ambit then the issue is quite narrow: does one believe the
phenomanon being considered real or not? |
I already answered this in my previous message above. We have real
doctors who come on TV to testify the effects of energy therapy on their
terminally ill patients. They are putting on line their reputation since
such an “apostasy” in pseudo scientific community that is now
dominating the scientific world, is heretical and not easily tolerated.
Soon every one will jump at you and tries to intimidate you with hooks
and crooks, if bullying does not work, mockery is employed. These guys
have facts and living testimonies to prove energy therapy works and yet
you even deny their credentials. There is basically nothing else to add.
You are in denial mode and that is your right.
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| Last time I checked the psychic, astrology, etc.
was still a very large business. |
This is perhaps proof that they get some results out of it which is not
just the feel good factor and an empty promise of salvation after life
as in religions. If I see a restaurant full of people, I give a chance
that perhaps the food must be good.
As for Ganesh story, I did not follow it then but read about it just
this month after Aparthib mentioned it. This phenomenon has an air of
improbability to it. Some explained it as the effect of the porosity of
the clay idols magnified by mass hysteria. However there were other
scientists who disagree:
“ A Delhi University science professor, A.M.
Gangadharan Nair, said he offered milk to a Ganesh idol in central Delhi
very carefully. He claimed that the offering disappeared. ``I checked
whether the idol was new or whether there was any vacuum device attached
to it, but there was none. How can we rationally explain this
phenomenon?'' he asked. “http://theory.tifr.res.in/bombay/leisure/trivia/ganapati-milk.html
Since this phenomenon stopped (which is also curious because clays are
still porous) it is not possible for us to verify it and may be we
should not take it into consideration. However energy therapy happens
every day and thousands are healed or cured with it. This requires our
attention.
Acupuncture is more than placebo. As I said it works even on animals.
You read this bit but filtered it.
Acupuncture is recognized by the American
Veterinary Medical Association as "the
examination and stimulation of specific points of the body of non-human
animals by use of
acupuncture needles, injections, low-level lasers, magnets and a variety
of other techniques
for the diagnosis and treatment of numerous conditions in animals."
The policy goes on to
state, "Veterinary acupuncture and acutherapy are now considered an
integral part of
veterinary medicine." http://www.cvm.uiuc.edu/petcolumns/showarticle.cfm?id=97
If really people were honest to themselves and nothing of what I wrote
so far convinced them, the above should. If this does not, then I am
sorry, the problem is not with the facts that are missing but within
thier minds.
Acupuncture may not work all the time but also conventional medicine
does not work all the time. In some cases acupuncture is used as
anesthetic and the person is cut awake. Also the qi meridians used in
acupuncture have nothing to do with nervous system. They do not
coincide.
 
Or see
this chart:
My father lifted something heavy and damaged one of his tendons in his
elbow. He saw several doctors but nothing helped. I insisted he tries
acupuncture. He did not think sticking needles in his arm is going to do
him any good. But finally accepted! His pain did not go away but he said
it was much better. My father is not a Chinese and was not a believer in
acupuncture. Those "studies" you are refering to are probably
done by convinced pseudo skeptics. The science created by pseduo
skeptics is as much reliable as those created by Christian Science folk.
Scientific research must be performed by unbiased people not people like
James Randi and ilk who have already made their minds and have vested
interest to defend that position. There is one million dollars at stake
after all) If that were the standard then Muslims also find a lot of
science in the Quran.
Frankly I think this subject is proven beyond doubt. I don’t think it
is in my power to convince people who simply do not want to change their
mind. I only hope we all get more respect for Muslims whom are just as
obstinate as the materialists. They are not stupid, this is a more
complex psychological problem that affect most of mankind irrespective
of their belief. That is why I think we have to fight belief itself. No
one can wage this war for others. We have to wage it ourselves for
ourselves.
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