Ghareeb

Bismillah Al Rahman Al Raheem

"Maher Kassem" <[email protected]>

Dear Ali Sina,

I will begin by giving you the greeting of Islam and Muslimeen, Salam Aleykum. First of all I would like to give a short description of myself, so that you are able to identify who I am. Firstly, I am a Shiite from Lebanon. My age is known only unto Allah (SWT), and my name shall be for this letter, Ghareeb.

Now, on the main page of the challenge you said that if Muslim was able to disprove you that you would take your site down. Well *if* I succeed in disproving you, you are free to make a decision whether or not to take your site down, but if you decide to leave it up, I ask of you only one thing kind sir, and that is to paste rid your site of all other debates, and include only this one (Insha Allah the one that disproves you) and your Quotes from the Quran and the actual criterion of the debate. I ask this so that Muslims abroad will see, what, if anything was able to defeat you. I will split my letter into sections, and each section will Insha Allah answer each section of your argument. Here we go.

Apostasy

Firstly I will begin kind sir, by posting the Ayats from the Quran that you quoted, and underneath them will be the meaning of them. Insha Allah the meaning will be logical, and it will be clear.

(2:27) Those who break Allah's Covenant after it is ratified, and who sunder what Allah Has ordered to be joined, and do mischief on earth: These cause loss (only) to themselves.

(As we can see from this translation, this Ayat is nothing more then a warning. It simply tells people that if they dont believe, or disbelieve after believing, that Allah (SWT) will punish them on the Day of Judgement. Now if we look at the reason of creation, we see that this is simply another chance, or a test given to us by Allah (SWT) in order to attempt to repent and denounce our awful sin.)

Ali Sina Responds:  

This reason of creation, as you describe it, is quite unreasonable. I did not ask to be born to this world. It is cruel of a god to create me without my consent and demand from me to do certain things and if I fail to do so torture me and punish me for eternity. 

You speak of “repentance” and “awful sins”. I have not committed any sin to repent. What is the definition of sin? Sin in my vocabulary is hurting someone, or hurting an animal. But killing people and sacrificing animals pleases your Allah. My values are distinct from the values of Allah. Sin to Allah is disbelieving in him. This is to me an absurdity. It is actually a mental disease. Why a true God would be so desperate to be known and worshiped? Why he would torture people for eternity if they fail to bow in front of him? This is a needy god; he cannot be the self-sufficing creator of this universe. This is a merciless god; he cannot be the loving God. 

Your god, based on your own description, is a psychopath. What would you say of a king or a dictator who demands from his subjects to praise him day and night and if someone fails to do so put him in jail, torture him everyday and every hour? You would say that he is insane. 

But why Muhammad’s god is so despotic? Because this Muhammad was a psychopath! His god was an emanation of his own sick mind. Muhammad was a narcissist with an underdeveloped sense of morality. Here is a piece from an article on Narcissism that can shed some light on the psyche of Muhammad. “Narcissists lack a mature conscience and seem to be restrained only by fear of being punished or of damaging their reputations… Their moral intelligence is about at the level of a bright five- or six-year-old; the only rules they recognize are things that have been specifically required, permitted, prohibited, or disapproved of by authority figures they know personally. Anyhow, narcissists can't be counted on not to do something just because it's wrong, illegal, or will hurt someone, as long as they think that they can get away with it or that you can't stop them or punish them (i.e., they don't care what you think unless they're afraid of you) http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/traits.html#amoral 

As you can see this perfectly describes the idiosyncrasy of Muhammad. Allah was nothing but his own alter ego—a reflection of his own higher self. Muhammad could not be moral just because morality is a good thing. He thought for every good action there must be a reward and for every mistake a punishment. His moral intelligence was so low that he did not base his values of the absolute right and wrong like what hurts others and what benefits them but on belief and disbelief in his fictitious god. Muhammad had no concept of the Golden Rule. When he hurt people, murdered them, looted their belongings, raped their wives and took as hostage their children, he had no pang of conscience. Only through understanding Muhammad neurotic disorder and his narcissistic pathology we can understand his obsession with religion and his twisted value system. This explains why Muhammad was so excessively preoccupied with belief and disbelief, punishment and reward. He was virtually incapable to prescribe good for the sake of good. He needed that vision of paradise with everything that to him was the source of delight, like having sex with many women, drinking wine and fooling around with young boys. He also needed to remind himself of tortures, fires and eternal punishment in order to avoid doing wrong. This is typical of those afflicted by Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD).  

(2:39) "But those who reject Faith and belie Our Signs, they shall be companions of the Fire; they shall abide therein."

(The same argument applies to the last ayat. Insha Allah (SWT), to save some time for myself in writing this letter, and for you to reply, I will only include Ayats that propose new ideas.)

The same answer applies here to. 

(4:89)They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them,"

(Now to begin with, the translation for this Ayat has a lot of interpretation on the part of the Translators. This is not your fault in anyway, and I will not blame you for a mistake that others have made. The Raw translation is: "They wish that you should enjoin in the forbidden as they have enjoined in the forbidden so that you may be on one level, so do not take from them any leaders until they migrate unto the way of Allah (SWT), and if they become leaders then take them and kill them wherever you find them and dont take from among them leaders or helpers" Now that is the raw translation of the Ayat, 

This is the verse in question: 

This is the verse in question. It says fala tattakhithoo minhum awliyaa hatta yuhajiroo fee sabeeli Allahi  Awliyyaa means friends or protectors it is the plural of wali. The verse is very clear. It says: “Do not befriend them unless they emigrate (from Mecca) for the sake (in the way) of Allah”. But the disturbing part is: fa-in tawallaw fakhuthoohum waoqtuloohum haythu wajadtumoohum. The meaning of this is: “But if they return, take them and kill them wherever you find them.” 

No matter how you want to explain it or twist the meaning of this verse, this is what the verse says and this is how I and other Muslims understand it.  

This idea of fighting in the way of God is repeated ad nauseam in the entire Quran. Just a few verses before this we read.

Then fight (O Muhammad) in the Cause of Allâh, you are not tasked (held responsible) except for yourself, and incite the believers (to fight along with you), it may be that Allâh will restrain the evil might of the disbelievers. And Allâh is Stronger in Might and Stronger in punishing. 

Basically what it is saying is that if a disbeliever becomes a leader among you, then wherever you find them kill them (the disbelieving leader). And do not take the disbelieving leaders as leaders or as helpers. 

Since of course you are following a person who suffered from NPD, your moral intelligence has remained at the same level of the moral intelligence of your guru. You are unable to see that it is evil to kill someone because he differs with you. You have taken it for granted that if someone says something contrary to Islam he must be put to death. When you follow an insane man with severe psychological disorders this is what you get: a sick society that licenses killing people on the ground of disagreement with the established dogma. 

Let us say that here the word awlyyaa means leaders as you say. If one says something and others find his words more reasonable, then that person becomes a leader. Should we kill him? If Islam’s logic is superior why it needs to kill those who oppose it? If you could defeat your opponents by reason, no one would follow them and they won’t be leading anyone. But Muhammad knew perfectly that if people reason no one would believe in him. That is why he ordered killing those who criticized his bogus religion.

This is so because if a disbeliever is the ruler of the muslims, then the that leader will force muslims to do things that are against Islam. This is why Imam Hussein (AS) would not take Yazid as his Caliphate. He knew Yazid was a disbeliever.)

There are many Muslims who have immigrated to the West. Unlike in Islamic countries where the non-Muslims have reduced rights, the Muslims in the Kafirland enjoy equal rights with anyone else. Are you saying that they should disobey their non-Muslims rulers? 

With all deceitful manipulations you Muslims cannot hide your inner thoughts and do give away what you really feel. This should serve as a warning to all those who do not believe in Islam. Here we have a confession of a Muslim saying that Muslims are not allowed to obey the non-Muslim rulers and in fact are required to kill them. 

Hearken oh ye unbelievers: There are many things that Muslims want to do that you kafirs do not allow. They want to stone to death the adulterers; you are not letting them. They want to chop the hands of the thieves; you do not allow them. They want to kill their daughters if they talk to strangers in order to save the honor of the family; this is a taboo for you. You do not let them circumcise their daughters by cutting their clitoris. You are oppressing the Muslims. You are not letting them practice the Sharia. You are forcing them to do things that are against Islam. Woe to you oh ye disbelievers. Muslims must kill your leaders. Don’t you see what the holy Quran says? Don’t you pay attention to what Muslims say? Do you still wonder why Muslims want to kill you? Read Mr. Ghareeb’s explanation of the Quran and you’ll find out.

Volume 9, Book 83, Number 17:
Narrated 'Abdullah:
Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."

(Now to begin with, as a Shiite, I do not in any way associate myself with these books of blasphemy such as Bukhari and Muslim. We use them only as a source of reference when we are debating our Sunnite brothers, and this is so because logic says, in order for someone to believe you, you must give them proof from something they believe in. In the 6 books of Sahih for the Sunnite brothers you see such narrations like Moses (AS) hits the Angel of Death (AS) in the eye and that Moses (AS) runs among the people naked, and that a rock steals his clothes. The Prophet (PBUH &HF) has given us a system for identifying whether a hadith is sahih or not. This system is that first we compare it to the Quran and if it does not contradict whats in the Quran, then that is one step covered, and the second is to see if it withstands the test of logic. If the hadith is not logical, or is not logically accepted, then it is not true. So with this in mind, I will have to say that the hadith quoted here is false, and not that you have made it up, but that the Narrator innovated it himself or someone else innovated it and passed it until finally it came to the Narrator.)

Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 445:
Narrated Abu Dhar:
The Prophet said, "Gabriel said to me, 'Whoever amongst your followers die without having worshipped others besides Allah, will enter Paradise (or will not enter the (Hell) Fire)." The Prophet asked. "Even if he has committed illegal sexual intercourse or theft?" He replied, "Even then."

(Now once again kind sir, this hadith contradicts the Quran, so it is not by any means Sahih. Take a look at this Ayat from the Quran:

[4:16]The couple who commits adultery shall be punished.* If they repent and reform, you shall leave them alone. GOD is Redeemer, Most Merciful.

So from this we can see that this Hadith contradicts the Quran, therefore it is false.)

I am afraid your knowledge of Quran is limited. Here is a verse from the Quran that confirms the above Hadith: 

Q.4.48 
Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed.

(Sahih Bukhari 4.260)
Narrated Ikrima:
Ali burnt some people [hypocrites] and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

(Once again kind sir, another false hadith Quoted. Before I continue, shall I tell you that in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, and the 6 books of Sahih, there is a grand total of only 20% Sahih Hadiths. As is common belief among the Shiites, that Ali (AS) is infallible. Now if Ali (AS) makes such a mistake like using Allah (SWT)'s punishment, then automatically we reject this hadith. You seem to have looked into Sunnite Islam, but I recommend that you look into the Islam of Ahlulbayt (AS), Shiite Islam. I think you will find it a lot more logical, a lot more mercifcul. Now as for proving the Infallibility of Ali (AS), I will not discuss that now, because it would most likely take one and one half hours of lecturing to get the full point across, so im sure you can imagine how long it would take to type. But if you wish to discuss this matter, I would be more then willing to).

All you have said here is denial. I was not a Sunni and I never took Bukhari and Muslim as sources of guidance. However those books, despite their errors are the only sources of the early history of Islam. There is no reason to discard them just because they do not appeal to us anymore or they are embarrassing to us. Nothing is more embarrassing than the Quran, Denial is not the answer. 

Who butchered the 750 men of Bani Qurayza? Wasn’t it Ali the cousin and Zobair an uncle of Muhammad? Who massacred 4000 unarmed khawarej who sat down in the square of Medina in protest? How can such butcher be infallible? There are stories about Ali who with the help of another Muslim killed a poor disbeliever and then started to fight with that Muslim over the victim’s camel. I do not think such person could be infallible. 

Remember that I am a seyyed. This is such important issue for the Shiits. Ali and Muhammad are my direct ancestors. Fortunately their gene after 60 generations or so are so diluted that count to nothing. You Shiites have blown this butcher Ali so out of proportion that some even think he is God. Just to make you see how a lie can be accepted as truth think of the city of Mizar-e Sharif in Afghanistan. The Afghans say Ali is buried in Mizar-e Sharif, hence the name of the city, but we all know that Ali never went as far as the present Afghanistan. So it is a lie, but don’t say that to millions of Afghans. If millions of people can believe in such historic lie, it shows that it is possible to fool millions and even a billion people with lies. The infallibility of Ali is a total lie concocted by Shiites for political purposes and nothing else. 

You wrote that Shiism is “a lot more logical, a lot more mercifcul”. Said who? I was brought up in a Shiite country. I saw the level of barbarity that Shiites are capable of. As a matter of fact I can say with certainty that Shiites are the worst Muslims. The treatment we gave to our Sunni compatriots was utterly inhumane. The Kurds are the very original Iranians. They are the most courageous and noble members of our country, yet they have been abused since the time of the Safavids and the rise of Shiism in Iran. They have been always treated as second-class citizens because of their Sunni faith. The Shiits treatment of other religious minorities is anything but humane. The Shiites murdered thousand of Bahais just because they would not recant. I have lived also in a Sunni country. I can witness that Shiites are far more fanatical and vicious than the Sunnis. No one can match the bestiality, the inhumanity, and the barbarity of Shiites. No wonder, when you have a butcher like Ali as your spiritual leader, this is the result. 

You are a member of Hizbullah a terrorist organization that holds a despicable murderer like Rouhollah Khomeini as their spiritual leader. This man ordered the execution of three thousand Iranian young boys and girls in one day. When Ayatollah Montazeri, his then successor, objected; he said that he would answer to that killing to God. This man was the very embodiment of Devil. The members of the terrorist organization that you belong to, have so far murdered thousands of innocent people. Killing is your answer to everything. Now you tell me that Shiism is “logical” and “merciful”? hah! You people have no shame! How dare you talk of mercy when your hearts are darker than the black stone that you worship?

As for the website that you have posted, http://www.thetruereligion.org/apostatepunish , well what I have to say about this is once again, the hadith quoted here is false, and it is false because of the reasons I have quoted above. The more and more I read about your beliefs regarding Islam, I see that you were exposed to the Sunnite Islam, and not the true Islam. Insha Allah (SWT) you will take my invitation to read about the real Islam at http://www.al-islam.org

Your assumption is wrong. I started reading the Sunni Hadithes after I realized Islam is a hoax. I read them, just as you said, to debate with Sunnis who constitute the majority of Muslims. My disenchantment with Islam started after I read the Quran in Arabic for the first time and realized this cannot be from God. My previous readings of bits and pieces of it in other languages did not open my eyes. The reason is that all the translations are “sanitized”.  Reading it in Arabic is quite an experience. It is like meeting devil face to face.

Unbelievers

(2:191) And slay them wherever ye catch them

(Assuming I have got the Ayat correct, this is what my Quran says: 

[2:191] You may kill those who wage war against you, and you may evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is worse than murder. Do not fight them at the Sacred Masjid, unless they attack you therein. If they attack you, you may kill them. This is the just retribution for those disbelievers.

Now assuming that I have the correct Ayat and indeed I do, the Quran is not telling you to kill all the disbelievers because they are disbelievers, but infact it is telling you to kill those who wage war agaisnt you. In the end of this Ayat, it labels the people who wage war on us as disbelievers. It does not say kill the disbelievers in general, it says kill the ones that wage war on you and attack you.)

This verse was “revealed” in conjunction with Muhammad’s attack of Mecca. Here the aggressor is Muhammad and his army not the Meccans. Muhammad demands the unconditional surrender of the Meccans. And in this verse he instructs his followers to kill those who defend themselves. This is the meaning of “those who wage war with you”. He says if they fight back kill them, otherwise don’t.  To incite his men and convince them to raise sword against their own relatives he tells them to evict those who made them emigrate and lose their homes. In fact Meccans did not evict the Muslims. It was Muhammad who told them to go and warned them that if they don’t go they will go to hell and instructed his followers to kill those who go back (as we saw in the above verse.  (4:89)  

This moral relativist, whom as we discussed had the moral maturity of a 5 or 6-year-old child tells to his followers “Oppression is worse than murder.”  He tells them it is okay to kill the Meccans because they oppressed you. Now tell me Mr. Ghareeb, would you rather be expelled from your country or be executed? Even if it was true that the Meccans oppressed the Muslims, which is not true at all as I have made it clear in a response to Ayatollah Montazeri still immorality of Muhammad manifested in this verse is shocking. Isn’t perhaps this the reason why the Palestinians think it is okay to kill the Israelis because in their twisted way of thinking the Israelis have expelled them from their homes?

(2:193 ), And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression

(Now assuming I have the correct Ayat again, my Quran says:

[2:193] You may also fight them to eliminate oppression, and to worship GOD freely. If they refrain, you shall not aggress; aggression is permitted only against the aggressors.

Once again this speaks of those who attack you, and not of those who are disbelievers. In Islam it is forbidden to begin war or attacking.)

This is the continuation of the above verse. So the above explanation applies here too. Here it says attack Mecca to conquer Kaaba in order to worship God freely? Why? Is God living in Kaaba? Kaaba was the temple of the pagans. Why should Muhammad desecrate that temple? Couldn’t he worship God elsewhere? Is God restricted to a certain place? If attacking Kaaba was okay because people worshiped other gods beside Allah, should the Muslims attack Indian temples and destroy them because the Hindus worship other gods? 

That is precisely what it means. Because of the example of abuse set by Muhammad, Muslims felt it is their religious duty to destroy thousands of temples belonging to Zoroastrians, Hindus, Buddhists and other religions. What Muhammad did was barbarous and Muslims follow the example of this rogue wild-eyed lunatic and this is why we have so much killing and so much war that will never end until Islam is not slain.    

“Fight them to eliminate oppression”?  What oppression? The very existence of people of other beliefs for Muslims is considered to be oppression. I received an e-mail from a terrorist organization in Nigeria complaining that the Christians are scholars and they are converting everyone to Christianity. They were seeking funds and the help of other terrorist organization such as yours, Aq Qaida and Hamas to start a Jiahd and end this “oppression”. 

A couple of days ago a humanitarian organization in Pakistan financed by a Christians was raided that left 6 people dead and many others injured. What did those volunteers serving the community do to deserve this death?  They were doing humanitarian work. But the Islamic terrorist considered that as oppression. If people preach their religion this is for you Muslims regarded as oppression. A couple of Months ago also in Pakistan a Christian run school was attacked and many children were massacred.

Did the Jews and the Christians of Arabia oppress the Muslims? Why Muhammad raided their towns massacred them and banished them? Why he ordered the ethnic cleansing of Arabia from the Jews and the Christians in his deathbed? Why he attacked Yemen? Were Yemenis oppressing the Muslims? Were Persians oppressing the Muslims? What about Egypt, Syria, Spain, India or Europe? 

You Muslims have a very twisted mind. Your morality is the same as the morality of the sick man you follow. Anyone who does not believe in Islam is considered to be an oppressor. You have the license to kill all of us because in your convoluted mind we are oppressing the Muslims and usurping the land that belongs to Allah and therefore we all deserve to die.

I am not only an apostate but also writing to expose Islam and hopefully eradicate it from the face of the Planet. What is my verdict Sir?

(9:5 ), But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem.

(Well the Ayat is clear, but lets take into concideration the one before it.

[9:4] And now let us look at (9:5) and link to two.

[9:5] Once the Sacred Months are past, (and they refuse to make peace) you may kill the idol worshipers when you encounter them, punish them, and resist every move they make. If they repent and observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), you shall let them go. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

In the first Ayat, it says that if they make a peace treaty with you, then you are to uphold the treaty, and in the next Ayat it says that once the Sacred Months have passed, if they have not made peace with you, then you may slaughter them where ever you find them. Now because taking 1 Ayat from the Quran can be confusing, we have to take into concideration that this says to slaughter the people that have waged war on you, as I have shown you before. So in that situation, what is wrong with self-defense kind sir?)

I think I have also made it clear that it is not self-defense we are talking about. Self-defense is a natural reaction of any living organism. Even bacteria and ameba know how to defend themselves. Those instructions, as it is clear from the history of Muhammad’s forays and the Muslim’s aggressive wars, are about violently raiding the unbelievers and killing those who resist. Those who “resist” or “any move they make” must be "punished". Only those who "surrender" and pay the obligatory Zakat can be forgiven. Oh yeah, and God is “merciful”!  What a mockery of God and his mercy! Even the very name of Islam which mean surrender is sickening!

Furthermore "treaties" demanded by Muslims were anything but fair. The Muslim army would demand its prospect victims to "surrender" to Islam and pay Zikat, or keep their religion and pay Jizya, which was a higher penalty tax accompanied with humiliation, or face war. These were the conditions of the "treaties" such as the one offered to Persia prior to the invasion of that country. So much for the "treaty" that you brag about. In the 30s Chicago was infested by gangsters who would also offer similar "treaties" to the business owners. They would offer them the choice of paying the "protection fee" or face retribution. 

(9:3 ), And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith.

(Before I begin, I must say that we must ALWAYS refer to the original Arabic text when using the Quran, because the translations can be VERY misleading. This translation is a little off, the correct translation from the Quran would be:

[9:3]A proclamation is herein issued from GOD and His messenger to all the people on the great day of pilgrimage, that GOD has disowned the idol worshipers, and so did His messenger. Thus, if you repent, it would be better for you. But if you turn away, then know that you can never escape from GOD. Promise those who disbelieve a painful retribution.)

Who the hell was Muhammad to force people into believing in a god that they did not want to believe? If Muhammad’s God was real why he did not kill or oblige the unbelievers into acceptance himself? Why like a gangster Godfather he sat back and sent his boys to do his dirty work? This is a clear proof that Allah is not God but the figment of the imagination of a manipulative sick man: A dictator who used the belief in God to fool the gullible people of his time and advance his own grandiose egotistic ambitions.

It take a total idiot or a Muslim to believe that God, the maker of this vast universe is so pathetic, so petulant, so desperate to order people to force others into accepting him or kill them if they refuse. This is insanity!  Wake up humanity! Islam is not a religion. This is a satanic cult! How can a billion people follow a mentally sick man like Muhammad? What happened to your brain people? Why can’t you see the obvious?

Why a great god that is the maker of this vast universe would be so rabid about being worshiped by a bunch of humans who live in this small planet that is less than a spec of dust when compared to the galaxy that is holding it and that galaxy is smaller than a drop when compared to the ocean of this universe?

If still you think that god is so desperate that would even kill those who do not worship him why he did not do the killing himself? Wasn’t it easier to warn the people that if they do not believe in him he would make the earth swallow them? Or send a disease to wipe them out? Why would he need people to kill people? For the sake of heaven, this is lunacy! Muhammad was not a prophet. He was a liar! He used ignorant people to make him powerful, to make him wealthy, to make him leader, to enable him to sleep with any teenager that he desired. He was a power hungry narcissist. He had no divine knowledge. Everything he said proved to be false. He had no divine assistance. He cursed his enemies to no avail. All he had was a bunch of ignorant fanatical people who like him lusted after women captured in war, property stolen in war and Muhammad gave them the green light to pillage, to loot and to rape to their heart desire and even gave them the assurance that after they die they receive more of the same in Paradise.

Okay folks, let us have a break now! Sit back and click the following link. I have parked a shuttle 10 billion light years away from the Earth. Let us get in it. I will find the milky way in the cosmos. There are over 400 billion galaxies in the universe. It is easy to get lost. But trust me. You are in good hands. Then I'll ably spot the position of our Sun. Well I got to tell you folks that is not easy either. There are over 400 billion suns in just the milky way. Now go figure! But Capitan Sina knows his way.  I bring you down smoothly to the Earth somewhere in Florida and from there I will take you through a leave, to a cell, the molecules composing it and down to the heart of an atom. When we reach there, I sit back and you drive. You can make this trip back and forth several times. Be my guest; no need to buy a thicket. Take a close look at the dimension gauge in order to have a better grasp of the size of this universe.  And know that there is no reason to believe that this is the only universe. There might be billions of universes just like ours. And when you are making this trip and looking out of the window think and ask yourself, would really the maker of such universe be so desperate as Muhammad wants you to believe? Would he really care if you believed in him or not? Would he really get mad at you and burn you for eternity if you disbelieved? What kind of idiocy is that? Who do you think you are to make God so paranoid about you believing in him or not? Don't be ridiculous my friend, you are not the purpose of the creation! You're just an ape in this insignificant speck of dust in this immense universe!  This universe is about 15,000,000,000 years old, while our species may not be more than 100.000 years old. This universe will live on for trillions more years looooong after our planet and our sun are gone. Stop believing in the childish fables of the ignorant primitive men. 

Okay! ...Ready? 

 Let's go!

The arguments presented by Mr. Ghareeb are repetitions of what I have already discussed several times. It is very time consuming to answer each and every person when most of what they write and I write are already discussed elsewhere. I suggest friends who want to debate to read first the debates that we had with other Muslims and  post their refutations in the forum. There they can find many scholars, mostly ex-Muslims who can answer their points, even better than me. These repetitive debates are taking a lot of my time and I need to concentrate on finishing the book that I have undertaken to write. So everyone please forgive me if I won't answer your emails. Please use the forum. Thanks. Dear Ghareeb click on the link bellow and continue your discussions there. 

Comments on this debate

(9:14 )Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers,

(Now in order to better understand who is being referred to here, let us look at the previous Ayat from the Quran.

[9:13] Would you not fight people who violated their treaties, tried to banish the messenger, and they are the ones who started the war in the first place? Are you afraid of them? GOD is the One you are supposed to fear, if you are believers.

So with this in mind, the Ayat is now clear who it is referring to. It is not referring to disbelievers in general, but infact it is referring to disbelievers (or anyone for that matter) who breaks a treaty with you.)

(9:28 )O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque.

(It is a well known fact that for even muslims, before they can enter any mosque, they must be pure. And if the pagans are not muslims, then most likely they did not go through the purification process that muslims go through, so therefore they are not pure.)

"Ali Ibn Abi Talib encountered a man called 'Umru and told him, `I indeed invite you to Islam.' 'Umru said, `I do not need that.' 'Ali said, Then I call you to fight.' (This was the same policy Muhammad used with those who rejected his invitation.) 'Umru answered him, `What for my nephew? By God, I do not like to kill you.' `Ali said, `But, by God, I love to kill you"' (ibn Hisham, "The Biography of the Prophet", part 3, p. 113; see also Al Road Al Anf part 3, p. 263).

(Once again taken from Sahih Bukhari, and im sure you already know my views about Sahih Bukhari. The Biography of the Prophet was based solely on ahadith from the 6 Sahihs of the Sunnites.)

(3:85 ), If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).

(I think the Ayat is clear in what it means, Allah (SWT) will not accept it from them, but that does not mean that they cannot chose to follow that religion during this lifetime. Freedom of religion is there within religion, but Allah (SWT) accepts no other religion other then Islam. The point is that people STILL have the freedom to follow which ever religion they chose. And if there religion says that no one will get to to father except through Jesus, then they may follow there religion, and continue believing that.)

Women

I will refrain from posting the English translations of the Quran that you used, and simply post the CORRECT English translation of the Quran. And furthermore I remind you that when using the Quran, you should refer to the original Arabic text, because when it is translated into English, it becomes very confusing, unclear, and loses its perfection.

[2:223]

Your women are the bearers of your seed. Thus, you may enjoy this

privilege however you like, so long as you maintain righteousness. You

shall observe GOD, and know that you will meet Him. Give good news to

the believers.

[2:228]

The divorced women shall wait three menstruations (before marrying

another man). It is not lawful for them to conceal what GOD creates in

their wombs, if they believe in GOD and the Last Day. (In case of

pregnancy,) the husband's wishes shall supersede the wife's wishes, if

he wants to remarry her. The women have rights, as well as

obligations, equitably. Thus, the man's wishes prevail (in case of

pregnancy). GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.

[4:34]

The men are made responsible for the women,** and GOD has endowed them

with certain qualities, and made them the bread earners. The righteous

women will cheerfully accept this arrangement, since it is GOD's

commandment, and honor their husbands during their absence. If you

experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them,

then (you may use negative incentives like) deserting them in bed,

then you may (as a last alternative) hit them. If they obey you, you

are not permitted to transgress against them. GOD is Most High,

Supreme.

Now I will refrain from commenting on all individual hadiths mentioned, but I will reassure you that they are all 100% false. Why? For the reasons I have told you, the majority of them contradict the Quran, and are not accepted by logic. And like I said Before, the 6 books of Sahih for Sunnites is blasphemy and innovations. They are NOT the teachings of Islam. Also, I have a question for you, why do you refrain from posting the ENTIRE Ayat, and only post a selected portion from it?

Adultery

As for the adultery, I will say only one thing, you have looked at the Sunnite punishment. No where in the Quran does it say that you shall stone adulterers to death, but instead it says:

[24:2]

The adulteress and the adulterer you shall whip each of them a hundred

lashes. Do not be swayed by pity from carrying out GOD's law, if you

truly believe in GOD and the Last Day. And let a group of believers

witness their penalty.*

Even in this case, the Shariah ruling is that the lashes are NOT to be severe, but only symbolic. And if they repent publicly, they are not to be touched.

As for the translations you gave of the Ayats given, they are interpretations, and WRONG ONES might I add. Where it says captives, it is infact speaking of something called Muta. This is a form of Marriage, and the translators are Sunnite, so they do not believe in this. They believe Muta was outlawed rightfully by Umar ibn Khattab, even though it was valid during the time of the Prophet, and it was mentioned in the Quran.

Contradictions in the Quran

You mentioned in the section, contradictions in the Quran, a contradiction in how many days the Earth was created in. But I see no contradiction. In the first Ayat, he told us that he created The Universe (Al Samawati wal Ard) in 6 periods. Now as is obvious Sharhe for the Quran, the meaning of Ayam here is NOT days, but infact periods. So 6 periods of unknown length. This is the Shiite belief, which is the correct belief. And in the next Ayat, it talks about creating the Earth and the 7 atmospheres all in 8 days. In this context Ayam means days. So there is no contradiction.

Also, another contradiction you mentioned, is what was created first, the Earth or the Sky? Now, there is infact no contradiction here either. Why? The Quran says that he created the Earth in 2 days, and then goes on to say he created the 7 skies (known to be the seven atmospheres) after that. In the next Ayat, Allah (SWT) says he created the Sky (The Universe) then he created the earth. Now, why this is so is logical. Before you can store your lunch in your lunch box, you have to have a lunch box.

Also you mentioned a contradiction in which you said that how could the prophet speak to the people of Moses when he came after them. If you read the Ayats again, you will see that it was infact Moses speaking, then the content changes to a present time and it tells the people that the Christians and Jews should follow Muhammad (PBUH &HF) who is mentioned in the Torah and the Bible. So in reality, there is no contradiction.

One of the contradictions you mentioned was did Allah (SWT) create everything, or was there more then one. Well the answer to this is simple, your basing your argument on the 'we created'. The answer to this is that Allah (SWT) refers to himself with the royal we. It does not mean that there is 2 people here, it just means that Allah (SWT) is referring to himself, because of the high respect we should have for him in the plural tense, hence the royalty. In the French language, when a person wishes to refer to another person with respect, when they address them, they say vous (you plural), but not tu (you singular). This is out of respect, the same rule applies here.

You ask how is it possible for unpure substances to enter heaven. Well the Ayats mentioned, and the Laws that apply here on earth, do not apply for the laws of heaven. What is forbidden here on earth, becomes valid in heaven because the test is over, and Allah (SWT) has made these things halal. There is no reason for them to be haram anymore. If you know the characteristics of the life in heaven, then you will know why.

You asked whether Pharoah drowned or did not drown. In both cases in the Quran, he drowned, but in the first mentioned Ayat, he attemtped to submit to Allah (SWT) while he was drowning, or maybe when the water was coming down. But Allah (SWT) said to him its too late, now that death is upon you, you want to Submit but you were evil before. There once again, is no contradiction.

Did Allah (SWT) not read history?

Now, since you made a valid argument on the time of the building of the Masjid al Aqsa, the only way to dispute that is to argue by saying that the temple is what was indeed mentioned. You may ask why is it the farthest then? I will tell you. In Surat Al Baqara, Allah (SWT) tells us that for some time he changed the Qiblah to al Masjid Al Aqsa to determine who the real believers were. After that he returned it to the Masjid Al Haram. Now, taking this into concideration, Allah (SWT) has made the Masjid Al Aqsa the 2nd Qiblah, therefore making it the farthest Masjid. Why? We must interpret the meaning of Masjid in this particular situation. The meaning of Masjid in this particular situation, because it was not an actual Mosque in itself, and a place of worship, would HAVE to have meant Qiblah. Because for the muslims to pray there, it has to have something to do with Islam. Now if it was another place of worship for the jews, its still concidered a Masjid, or a place of worship, but no longer a masjid in the sense of a place of worship for the muslims. Therefore, when Allah (SWT) mentions masjid, he means Qiblah, and the Qiblah MAKES it a place of worship for the muslims. Now, as for the hadith you quoted, once again, like I said, Sahih Bukhari and the 6 Sahihs of the Sunnite are full of innovations and blasphemy. So attributing such a big gap to the Prophet (PBUH &HF) is not a valid argument, because the hadith in itself is not valid. The Quran was completed by 11 Hijra, and if it says in the Quran that Allah (SWT) switched the Qiblah from Masjid Al Haram to Masjid Al Aqsa, within 11 years, how could it have been supposedly built 40 years later. In this case, like I said before, the hadith is rejected. Why? Because it contradicts the Quran and not the other way around. The Quran is the main source of Islam, not hadith. Do not attribute hadith to Quran, because it does not work like this.

The day of judgement

You mentioned a lot of Ayats in the Quran that refer to the day of judgement, but the first one that I found to be an actual attack was the one about the blackening of faces. Once again, I ask you to look at the arabic text, and read the word that is said. The translation is bad, the actual word means misery and not blackened.

The Earth is Flat?

In this section, you say that the Quran says that the sun moves, and not the Earth. You mentioned Ayats from the Quran, which are again in English translation that is incorrect. Here is the correct translation for the first Ayat.

[36:38]

The sun sets into a specific location, according to the design of the

Almighty, the Omniscient.

(We see here it speaks about the sunset, and not the actual motion of the sun itself.)

[39:5]

He created the heavens and the earth truthfully. He rolls the night

over the day, and rolls the day over the night.* He committed the sun

and the moon, each running for a finite period. Absolutely, He is the

Almighty, the Forgiving.

(In this Ayat, Allah (SWT) relates the moving of the sun and the moon to the rolling of night and day. When he says finite period, this implies that it is in regards to the rolling of the day. It once again does not say the Sun and Moon move, and the Earth is still, it infact is saying that the Sun comes in the day, and the Moon comes in the night. Thats it!)

[30:25]

Among His proofs is that the heaven and the earth are standing at His

disposal. Finally, when He calls you out of the earth, one call, you

will immediately come out.

(As for this Ayat regarding the Earth not moving, it is not referring to that in any sense. It is referring to the Earth not falling through space. Hence the word standing. Does not say standing still. Big difference.)

[35:41]

GOD is the One who holds the heavens and the earth, lest they vanish.

If anyone else is to hold them, they will most certainly vanish. He is

Clement, Forgiving.

(As for that Ayat you mentioned. Well its obvious what is meant. If they did not 'stand' then they would fall endlessly through space. That is once again what is being referred to, and not the Earth not moving.)

[27:61] Never Participated

Who is the One who made the earth habitable, caused rivers to run

through it, placed on it mountains, and created a barrier between the

two waters? Is it another god with GOD? Indeed, most of them do not

know.

(In your English translation it said fixed adobe. The ACTUAL translation is habitable. So I do not think we have to argue about that.)

[31:10]

He created the heavens without pillars that you can see. He

established on earth stabilizers (mountains) lest it tumbles with you,

and He spread on it all kinds of creatures. We send down from the sky

water to grow all kinds of beautiful plants.

(Science now tells us that mountains reach deep into the Earths crust, and indeed do in most cases hold the Earths crust together, so it does not seperate.)

[2:22]

The One who made the earth habitable for you, and the sky a structure.

He sends down from the sky water, to produce all kinds of fruits for

your sustenance. You shall not set up idols to rival GOD, now that you

know.

(Yours said resting place. Once again refer to the Arabic text before making such assumptions. The correct word is habitable and not resting place.)

[18:86]

When he reached the far west, he found the sun setting in a vast

ocean, and found people there. We said, "O Zul-Qarnain, you can rule

as you wish; either punish, or be kind to them."

(This Ayat refers to the vision of man. Zul-Qarnain saw with his eyes the sun setting to the west, and to the west he found some people there. This has nothing to do with the actual sunset. Allah (SWT) tells us what Zul-Qarnain saw, and it is a reason for him going to the west. If he did not see the sun setting to the west, he would have never went there.)

As for the Hadith you mentioned regarding the answer of the Prophet, I once again hold that hadith false. The Prophet (PBUH &HF) is attributed a lot of things. Some of which are drinking and killing a man. Which is known Blasphemy.

Historical Errors in the Quran

You said that Mary was the sister of Aaron, I beg to differ.

[19:28]

"O descendant of Aaron, your father was not a bad man, nor was your

mother unchaste."

Obviously the word descendant DOES NOT mean sister. You are making a GRAVE mistake when you interpret the Quran literally. You are missing the actual meaning of it. When it says Ya ukht harun, it is referring to the sense that she is his sister in religion, and his descendant. When they call me Yabna Rasul Allah, that does not mean I am his direct son, but infact I am only a descendant seperated by hundred(s) of years. Once again you interpret incorrectly.

As for why her mother was the wife of Imran, well thats easy, because Imran was her father. Not the father of Imran of Moses and Aaron, but the father of Mary whos name was also Imran. If someone really wanted to interpret things in a inaccurate sense, one could come to any inaccurate and false conclusion, and be justified!

As for your claims about Alexander the great, they are based on human made and biased opinions of history. Also these opinions CANNOT be proven valid. Therefore I CHOSE to take the word of the Quran of that of some bias historian.

As for the golden calf of the people of Israel, thats easy, just like there have been a lot of men named Abraham over the existance of time, there was a man named Samaritan. It does not take rocket science to explain this.

As for Taha Hussein, what is your point? Saddam is concidered a muslim, be he is no where near that. Documented in history? And up until now people still believe human beings came from fish then evolved to apes then evolved to humans. Even though it has been proven otherwise.

As for your production of the Sura like it, you may have composed words, but mathematically, you composed nothing. Compose 1 Sura that is as mathematically complex as 1 Sura in the Quran. Like I said its very easy to make accusations, back them up, when people have little knowledge.

As science furthers, it only proves the validity of Islam. Now, this is it for today, I am looking forward to reading your replies. Insha Allah (SWT) we can get into more discussion and debates, and discuss more and more about the Quran.

Salam aleykum,

Dear Ali Sina,

I will begin this letter by identifying what it is I will be arguing. On your site, there is a section entitled "Miracles of Allah". In it, you state several miracles in which you comment and and attempt to prove that they are false and not really miracles after all. Now, in this letter, I will attempt to prove you wrong and show the validity of these miracles. Now Mr. Sina, I will ask you to please forget about your views regarding Islam for now, and read my arguments with care, and an open mind. I believe you will find them to be correct if you do so.

In this section, you have posted a miracle regarding the Cats eye of Nebula. In it, you argued that the only reason the Cats eye is red, is because the universe is expanding, and that it is moving away from us so it appears red. Now, I ask, if this is so, then why does the outer layer of the Cats eye appear green? And you also argued that it had nothing to do with us because it is outside of our solar system and we are unable to see it with the naked eye. Now, I ask you, if we were to leave everything outside of our solar system, or arent able to see with our naked eye, then why bother studying and searching for Planets like Pluto? We can only see them as a star, we cant see the Planet. Also, like usual, you only pasted the Ayat regarding the Cats eye itself, but you did not post the Ayat regarding where we can expect to see these miracles. It is as follows:

[41:53]

We will show them our proofs in the horizons, and within themselves,

until they realize that this is the truth.* Is your Lord not

sufficient as a witness of all things?

Now, I ask you Mr. Sina, where exactly do we have to look in order to have witnessed the Cats eye? And Allah (SWT) points out to us where his miracles can be seen. You disregard the fact that the Cats eye looks SO MUCH like a Rose indeed. But in your hastiness to claim it non-miraculous, you overlooked that fact. Now, as is the criterion for Miracles, it is known that they will be within the laws of Nature. This Miracle does not break the Law of Nature in any way. So therefore, how can it not be a miracle? Its amazing how this was mentioned in the Quran so long ago, and yet still, you find a way to say it is not a Miracle. You yourself said that we need the strongest telescopes in order to see it, so how could the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH &HF) have seen it?

The second miracle that you have claimed to be false is that of the fish that supposedly says Abdullah. Now, I cannot see the 'abd' on the fish either, so I wont argue with you regarding that. But I do, CLEAR AS DAY see the word Allah on the fish. If you will read from left to right, you will see the loop, then 2 lines, a space and another line. Now from right to left you see a line, a space, 2 lines, and a loop. That word CLEARLY reads Allah (SWT). As for it being a fluke of nature, I honestly doubt that it would be so accurate. As for it being a hoax, well I ask you, are you able to write into the skin of a fish without damaging it? If so, I would as you to do so, and present proof to me.

As for the second fish, it is clearly the EXACT same fish but turned 180° so its head is facing the left and not the right. The discoloration shows that it was edited in paint. I dont know if this was meant to be a mockery or if you are serious, but even an imbossil can tell that this is a forgery.

Mr. Sina, your arguments is that this is a forgery, now I ask you, if this was a forgery, why such a stupid forgery like giving the name of the country. And if you dont know, Germany is home to a lot of Muslims, and especially a lot of Lebanese, and being in a non-Islamic society, wouldnt it make sense for Allah (SWT) to put such a miracle where they can see it. Also, you have never attempted to actually search for this. If you search for it, I believe that you will find it to be no hoax, yet infact true. Go to Germany, and ask any Lebanese person about this place. They will take you. Relatives say it exists, so I believe them. As for the German government not allowing people to see it. Why wouldnt they just cut it down? There is ways around everything. Although I did like your argument, it does not comply with logic.

Mr. Sina, as for your honey comb, I know see that you are trying to mock it. It is very easy to manipulate pictures in Microsoft paint, but its not as easy to produce actual photographs, known to be ORIGINAL, and tested as so, with the same writing of 'Wodan rules'. Such a picture has been presented, and I accept its authenticity. You are free to do as you please.

As for this, well all I have to say is you really made NO argument here and just went on criticizing and criticizing. The more I read your site, the more I see criticism.

As for the rest of your claims. There is no real argument to back them up, it is simply criticism, and there is no need to argue criticism, I will leave that to the readers. Looking forward to reading replies.

Salam aleykum,

Ghareeb

Dear Ali Sina,

You have on your website, a section regarding contridictions of the Quran. In this letter, I will attempt to answer each and every individual contradiction of the Quran, and convince you that contradictions do NOT exist in the Quran. If you read my arguments with an open mind, you will believe, but if you chose to keep your views about Islam, you will never believe, not even if the awaited (AAFS) himself were to show you.

On your website, you have a section that claims Numerical contradictions in the Quran. Your first contradiction was in the creation of the Heavens and the Earth.

Quran 7: 54 Your gurdian-Lord is Allah who created the heavens and earth in Six Days

(The arabic text for this ayat says 'fi sittat ayam'. Now as it is well known, Ayam has 2 meanings in Arabic, one is days, and the other is Arabic. In this particular verse, the word Ayam means periods and not days. As was translated by our great Imams like Jaafar As-Saddiq (AS). So the creation of the worlds took place in 6 periods, each of uknown length.

[22:47]

They challenge you to bring retribution, and GOD never fails to

fulfill His prophecy. A day of your Lord is like a thousand of your

years.

In this Ayat, he says that 1 day in the eyes of our Lord, is like 1 thousand years in human time. Now if a period consists of many days, you can imagine how long it would take for Allah (SWT) to create the heavens and the earth. Now, as is known in the Big Bang Theory, and confirmed in the Quran, that after the giant explosion, the earth took some time to form into its shape because of the cosmic debris and the gases. In another Ayat in the Quran, he says he created the Earth in 2 days. Now the days that is being referred to here not the days of Earth, but the days of the Lord. So 2 days of the lord would equal 2000 years or so. But we know that the formation of worth took longer then that. Hence the Ayat:

[70:4]

The angels, with their reports, climb to Him in a day that equals

fifty thousand years.

So now we have 2 definitions for the word day as it is used in the Quran. In the case of the creation of the Earth, it is referring to the days that the angels climb to him in, so that is 50,000 X 2 = 100,000 years. That seems logical scientifically, concidering that we do not know the exact amount of time Earth took to form.

The next Ayat, and the proclaimed contradiction you state:

Quran 41: 9 Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two Days ?

Quran 41: 10 He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS…

Quran 41: 12 So He completed them (heavens) as seven firmaments in Two days and …

- Now even with these incomplete Ayats, I will still answer you. Where he says he created the earth in 2 days, he is talking about the actual formation of the Earth itself, and is referring to the days in which the angels climb to him. So each day is approxiamately 50,000 years.

- Where is says that he set on earth mountains, in 4 days, he is talking about the formation of the continents and the creation of the mountains, and the days referred to here is 'ayam' and it is not referring to days, but infact it is referring to periods! So in 4 periods of unknown length, Allah (SWT) shaped and molded earth.

- In the third Ayat, where he says he completed the seven heavens in 2 days, he is not talking about the actual 7 heavens, he is talking about the 7 atmospheres. Your argument is that cannot be so, because he says he adorned the lowest Universe with lambs. Now as we know, the lowest universe would be the level that we live on or 'ground level'. So Allah (SWT) adorned it with lambs (The sun and the moon), and established the laws. You count 8 days, when infact it speaks of completely different periods in each ayat, so therefore there are NO contradictions.

In this part, you mentioned a contradiction of the Quran, that says that Allah (SWT) says his days are equal to 1000 of our years, and in another he says that they are equal to 50,000 years. If you look closely, you will see that in the first ayat:

[22:47]

They challenge you to bring retribution, and GOD never fails to

fulfill His prophecy. A day of your Lord is like a thousand of your

years.

- He specifically says the DAY OF YOUR LORD, and in the next Ayat he says:

[70:4]

The angels, with their reports, climb to Him in a day that equals

fifty thousand years.

- Here, he says, 'The angels climb to him in a day that equals fifty thousand years'. He specifically says THE ANGELS climb to him. So in reality, in the first verse, he is speaking about the General day, which is equal to 1000 years, and in the second verse he is speaking about a SPECIFIC day, that is equal to 50,000 years. There is no contradiction. Its like telling someone that everyday you drink a glass of milk, but Tuesday the 22nd of March, 1998 you drank 10 glasses of milk. Its very SPECIFIC. So no contradiction occurs.

In this section, you spoke of a contradiction that said, which came first, the heaven or the earth. You used the following Ayats to back up your claim of a contridiction.

Quran 2: 29 It is He who hath created for you all things that are on Earth; THEN He turned to the Heaven and made them into seven firmaments (Skies)….

- Here, Allah (SWT) speaks about the creation of Earth, and then he speaks about the creation of the 7 skies! That are above us. In this verse, what is meant is the 7 atmospheres and not the 7 universes. This is clarified by the next verse, that you claim contradicts this one, when ifact, it supports it.

Quran 79: 27 - 30 Are you the harder to create, or is the heaven that He built? He raised the height thereof and ordered it; and He has made dark the night thereof, and He brought forth the morning thereof. And after that, He spread (flattened) the earth

- In these Ayats, Allah (SWT) speaks about the creation of the heaven in the sense of the Universe, and then he created the earth and spread the ground (land masses (ie: continents)). Once again, this supports my claim, because logically, one cannot contain the yolk within the egg shell, without having the eggshell to begin with. So The Sura 79, because it was revealed BEFORE Sura 2, naturally it is to be read and concidered before it. But we can thank good ol' Uthmaan bin Affan for compiling the Quran in the wrong order ! Once again, there is no contradiction, and I have made it clear why.

As for the Sun set and the Sunrise, and the resting place for the Sun, I have already answered that in my first letter to you.

You claim here, based on vague Ayats, that Allah (SWT) created stars in order to throw them at satans. Let us look at these Ayats and shed some light on them.

Quran 67: 5 And We have (from of old) adorned the lowest heaven (sky) with lamps, and We have made such (Lamps as) missiles to drive away Satans…

- In this Ayat, we see that Allah (SWT) has said that he created lamps in the lowest heavens to drive away Satans. What is actually meant by this? Let us examine the Ayat before it and the Ayat after it, and come to a conclusion.

[67:4]

Look again and again; your eyes will come back stumped and conquered.

[67:5]

We adorned the lowest universe with lamps, and guarded its borders

with projectiles against the devils; we prepared for them a

retribution in Hell.

[67:6]

For those who disbelieved in their Lord, the retribution of Gehenna.

What a miserable destiny.

- Now it becomes clear to us what the Quran is talking about. It is not speaking about missiles it is going to fire at the devils, but infact, it is speaking about a bounday, that is not surpassible by the devils. Only the pure souls can pass this boundary. This boundary exists in the first universe, and the boundary is defined by stars, in the second universe, there could possibly be no stars. It would be impossible for human beings to ever reach the end of this universe, to know what exists in others. So it is not clear what the Quran is talking about.

In this part, you claimed that the Quran claimed that the sky was a roof, when infact, the Quran claimed nothing like this, but it was only giving reference to the 7 atmospheres that exist on and above earth. Let us look, and see where you made the fatal mistake of assumption, but was your mistake an accident?

Quran 21: 32 And We have made the sky a roof withheld (from them). Yet they turn away from its portents.

- Now in this particular verse, the translator forget to mention its function (guarding). It becomes clear what is meant by the sky. It is a roof, a guarding roof. Now, one will ask themselves what on earth does that mean? Well when one thinks of the 7 atmospheres on and above earth, we notice that they protect us from such things like deadly ultraviolet rays, and meteors and so on and so forth. The atmosphere destroys or filters these things so that they are not able to affect the balance of life on earth. That is what is meant by guarding roof. And it is quite clear from this verse that it is referring to the 7 atmospheres.

As for the sun rotating around the Earth, I answered that in my first letter.

You claimed that the Quran said that man is created from Clotted Blood. Well, of course were not, and thats not what the Quran says at all. The Quran says:

[96:2]

He created man from an embryo.

No need to argue upon that. Your taking everything as literal, thats a GRAVE mistake. And I suggest you look at Shiite tafseer for a change my friend.

I am going to completely ignore your partial Ayats, and simply post the truth. In the first Ayat you mentioned:

[2:256]

There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now

distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and

believes in GOD has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks.

GOD is Hearer, Omniscient.

is clear. There is NO COMPULSION in religion. Now the later Ayats you pasted were fragments. The entire Ayats, if you dare post them show that you are only to fight the disbelievers if they fight you, or if you make peace and the break the peace treaty. There is no need to show this, because it is CLEARLY shown in my first letter, and you know, as well as I, what the Ayats you have mentioned are referring to. It is a very common thing for you to post fragments of Ayats for your use, and I believe this is because you wish to manipulate the mind of the reader to believe your accusations. But I know the readers are smarter then this. I ASK ALL readers to double check all sources you give, and not be fooled by fragments. Please, lets play clean.

In the end, under your comments section, you claim the Quran is full of many things: "Comments: The Holy Qur’an is full of inaccuracies, contradictions, inconsistencies, redundancies, no chronology or chapters, grammatical errors, etc. One can find hundreds of contradictions/errors/inconsistencies in the Holy Quran. The above-mentioned Ayats are just selected samples from the Quran. But still it is a miracle to those who are blindfolded bigots."

- I ask you to present to me these things, so that I may refute them. You may claim they are on your site, but most of the work on your site is not even yours. I would like to see them and read them with YOUR commentary, and with your thoughts. Then I may debate them and argue for the sake of my beloved Islam.

Salam aleykum,

Ghareeb.

Mr. Ghareeb,  

I posted all your messages. I will respond to them when your turn comes. There are a lot of more important things to do than responding to Muslims who repeat the same things over and over without even having the mental ability to understand simple logics. If you think Mr. Nasr and Mr. Asadi have won the debate then it is obvious that your level of reasoning is not superior to theirs. I have not read but a few paragraphs of your first message yet but honestly I do not think your messages require any answers. But since I promised I will answer them when I get to them.   

For now let people read them as they are proofs in themselves that logic is an alien word to Muslims. 

Regards, 

Ali Sina