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| " Sina Ali, I cannot say I
am happy to see you again, but I can ask: why you disappeared as
soon as I said let us get serious, many came to my mail Address
knocking and asking why I fled, I explained how I said let us start,
had no answer from you. |
Mr.Al Assadi. I don’t know you and have no idea
about your state of mind. But it seems to me you are a confused person.
After round V you sent a message full of nonsense and told me not to
publish it that you are going to answer my question soon. Then I did not
hear from you. Your friend then asked whether I have given up. I told him
that I am still waiting for your response. Then you responded what I
published in round VI.
| Anyway, here I am you had a
good question, put almost in a right way, what about Embryo’s, I
said please put it in a real questions, meaning: tell me what is
that you do not like about what Allah said, and instead you send me
another news paper to read. I would like to ask you again, I wished
if you just asked about the Embryo, nothing else. |
What part of the question you do not understand? I gave you two articles,
written by two medical doctors, one and Arab ex-Muslim and another by a
Christian, showing the description of the development of the embryo in the
Quran is wrong. What part of this is difficult to understand?
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Anyway, this time I will
answer all what came here, but this is going to be in many
responses, I will not move to the next part before you are finished
with the first, and if you can; do not start a new issue before we
finish this message first, you see it as one issue, and you are
wrong, and you will see when I discus how it is many issues, anyway
let us start. Here is what you said, when I said only Embryo. This
is what you said:
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Quote:
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Mr. Al Assadi:
We started this debate by you trying to prove my charges
against Muhammad are wrong.
We touched several points and I kept showing that the Quran
is wrong on many points. You introduced the verse 41:11
saying how could Muhammad have known the primary plasma of
the universe was smoke like. I explained this he did not
know and that is not what he intended when he wrote the word
smoke in that verse. We scrutinized the verses 41:9 to 41:12
and saw everything Muhammad had said in those verses were
bogus and unscientific. Then I explained the origin of those
verses are ancient myths of the Mesopotamians. There
Muhammad is rehashing the fairytales of the ancient people
and is not saying anything scientific.
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I say: no, you did not
show except what you think, does not mean Qur’aan is wrong as you
atated, and this you have to prove, or I can defeat your wrong
understanding.
Very well, I did introduce verse 41:11 asking how Muhammad PBUH knew
it started form Smoke, nice story you brought about the
Mesopotamians, where you find this stuff at, you are really
something. Ok, show me please where in the Qur’aan those who
taught Muhammad are found from the Mesopotamians, if you do not
mind. Now let me show you how you are wrong about the same. If
Muhammad PBUH learned this as you said, he would say it one time,
let us see how the word smoke came, or in what manner this showed
up.
Ayah (Verse) 41:11 says: then Allah went to the Heaven while it was
still smoke like. I do see how the way this verse is stated is with
such assurance from someone who knows what he is talking about, not
guessing, or hesitates, and being supported by today’s Scientific
discoveries that you wish not to accept. Qur’aan says Smoke, you
say a Myth, and you expect us just to say: Good Job Sina Ali, we are
convinced because you said it, who cares about Allah, I am sorry
this will never happen.
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This point is clear to all thinking people. My intention is not to
convince you but to show that Islam is false.
| Allah also said in Ayah 21:104:
As Allah started the first creation He returns it to how it was
before. Science also says the same, and this we need to ask you how
Muhammad PBUH knew this too? Many are the Ayahs that says how Allah
will return everything to how it was from the very start. |
These verse 21.104 reads: “The
Day that We roll up the heavens like a scroll rolled up for books
(completed),- even as We produced the first creation, so shall We produce
a new one”
There is nothing scientific in this nonsense. Heavens
are not like a sheet of paper of scrolls to be rolled up. It is clear that
Muhammad thought heaven is a dome like a tent that is pitched over the
earth, where the stars are hanging as adornments. What part of this waffle
is scientific? Muhammad did not know anything. He was a stupid Arab of the
seventh century and his knowledge was not even al par to those learned
people of his time or before him. He talks like an idiot.
| Now, He said in 41:11 how it
was smoke, here he says and in many other places how he will return
everything to how it was in the very beginning, meaning smoke state.
Allah also said in Ayah 44:10: and keep in waiting until the heaven
brings forth clear Smoke. As we said: He started with Smoke, said He
will return as it was, then here is saying: keep waiting until the
Heaven brings forth the clear Smoke again, which means it is the
promise he made that day all of us will return to face our evil
against him, including you Sina and all those who attack Him. Ok,
looks to me how Muhammad PBUH, or Allah meant it when the Qur’aan
stated it how Heaven was Smoke like, and you are wrong, you can see
now the whole picture so clear, He meant what He said, Smoke it was,
and Smoke it will be next. |
You are just talking gibberish. But keep talking like
that as it shows the intellectual bankruptcy of Muslim clerisy. The reason
I asked you to tell us who you are is to show to the world that these
people with whom I debate are not the ignorant Muslims but their
intellectuals.
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I don’t believe your
Mythologies from Mesopotamians say the same,
Why should I care?
again
as we see here, the Noble Qur’aan emphasizes how the heavens were
smoke, and to smoke they will return, no gap or ifs or buts, solid
forward talk, and not estimating. |
And this solid forward talk is nothing but the drivel
of a mad man. There is nothing scientific of logical in it.
| Now as that was coincidence
from old fiction, which is not likely in the same manner that came
in Qur’aan, then we would not deny Qur’aan but would tell you
how Allah told us in the book how He sent the same Revelation to
mankind through the times since Adam PBUH, then if any old
Civilization remembers any of this, this supports what Allah says. |
Sir: Why you don’t you want to open your ears and listen? This
story is wrong and unscientific. The origin of that is ancient mythology
made up by ancient people who had no understanding of how the universe is
made. Muhammad rehashed these same tales and folklore. They are wrong.
| On the other hand, you need to
stick to things as they are found, I wished if instead you would say
today’s Science and Qur’aan were wrong about heaven being
originally Smoke, and perhaps you with your creative mind can give
us that which is different and supported with solid proofs instead
of accusing solid knowledge of being the fiction of Old times. |
I don’t have to tell you anything. The theory of
how the universe has come to be is thought in high schools. What the Quran
says is not solid knowledge. It is balderdash and BS.
| Now, I would like to ask: Since
I am discussing with you only Qur’aan, not story books, I would
not consider your story as true, I do see how Allah said how
Muhammad PBUH was an Illiterate, not educated at all, and then he
would not know what you know about the history of those who lived
between the two Babylonian Rivers of Old days. If Muhammad PBUH was
not illiterate, then all those who read how Allah gave him this
title would never believe in his message, and become two billions
today. He was Illiterate, yet you accuse him in other stories of
learning from a Christian priest, where this is found in Judaism,
and Christianity in this clarity or remotely mentioned? Have you
ever saw the Judeo Christian book, ignorantly called by the Bible,
do you see anything like this, I do not think you would. Now you say
Muhammad PBUH was such a professional about history of the nations
between the two rivers, I would like you to come today to the middle
of the Arabian desert, take an illiterate man who never read
anything and ask him to tell you things or stories about Old
Babylon, you think they can, how about Muhammad PBUH who was here
1425 years back, knowing all things from the middle of the Desert,
are you trying to make him a God? We thank you so much but can do
without, it is enough others who are so ignorant made men for Gods
to worship, we can accept Muhammad PBUH to be very human. |
Muhammad did not have to be a historian to know the little things that he
knew. Muhammad’s knowledge of everything was extremely superficial. In
those days instead of radio or television, people listened to storytellers
who told them stories of the past, the kings, the prophets and the old
legends. What Muhammad knew superficially was common knowledge. Everyone
had heard these storied a hundred times. Today I can go in the middle of
the desert and grab a Bedouin who can’t read and he know about Moses,
Jesus, Ali Baba and the frothy thieves, that people have landed on moon
that Chinese speak Chinese and many other things. Muhammad’s knowledge
was nothing exceptional and often he was wrong. For example he thought
Marry the mother of Christ is the same Miriam the sister of Aaron and
Moses because in Arabic both these names are pronounced Maryam. So the
fool heard the sister of Aaron is Maryam and the mother of Jesus is also
Maryam and he thought these two are the same person. This is an error that
an illiterate man would do. If he could read the Bible he would not have
made this gross mistake. There are hundreds of other mistakes in the Quran
that show Muhammad was indeed an illiterate person and his knowledge was
second hand and hearsay.
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Next you said:
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Quote:
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In the process of this debate we
discovered several errors in the Quran. For example the
verse 2:2 that says "that book” guides the righteous
ones, (those who guard against evil) contain three errors:
Allah made a mistake to call his book “that book”. He
should have said “this book” unless we assume that this
verse is not part of the Quran.
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I said: anyone with
little reasoning would accept how if Allah is touching the book, he
should say: This, but even if He is
everywhere, and closer to us than the
Veins of our bodies, He can use that, which is more reasonable and
more powerful than using this is the book, because if He said this,
someone like you would say if I and Allah are holding to the book at
the same time, then He says this, I will ask: why I do not see Him?
Allah says that, meaning I am holding it alone, He is not holding to
it with me at the same time, but speaking
from His distance. Now how He is at a
distance yet so close, when you speak with your
Mobile
with some one across the world, you are as close as being Heard, yet
far away as if on a different planet. Closeness as we know is not
what is meant by Him, even the Judeo Christian book says: touching
the LORD we cannot. Means we do not know much about Him, or how He
does things, we are limited with our thinking. We do not know how so
close He is to us, Christians say His spirit is in our bodies, how?
We tell you we do not know how He is so close, but He is, and He
can. Then just stay with this and that in this topic, He says
“that” to what I hold to and doesn’t say “this” if you
wish to understand or reject the simple thing makes no difference. |
If God is everywhere then for more reason he should
use this and not that when talking about his own book. No matter how you
see this verse it is wrong.
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When it says there is no doubt in it,
it is making a false statement because many people doubted
it when it was written and many still do.
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I say: He did not say: no doubt about it, He
said: no doubt about it for those who have fear, then Allah is not
speaking about those who have doubt from all over the world.
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We are not interested to hear what YOU say. The Quran does not say
what you say. This is a clear lie and bogus boastfulness. Furthermore,
isn’t it stupid to say those who believe in me don’t doubt it? Those
who believe in the Bible don’t doubt it either. Those who believe in any
book don’t doubt that book. The statement is a stupid redundancy.
| Sina, you do need to read as it
is, not as you wish to read and twist it.
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It is you who are reading this book through the eyes
of a believer and can’t see the obvious errors in it.
| See, how many billions know the
LORD exists, and how many are those who are in doubt and say He does
not, and He is a negative? Do those who believe there is a LORD will
change thinking He exists, because those others are in doubt about
it?
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This is a red herring fallacy. We are talking about
the Quran and the errors of that book are obvious and can be proven.
There is no doubt about Qur’aan for those who have
fear from the LORD, but for those who doubt it Allah says: The ignorant
Evil try to show greatness over their LORD. Imagine you are standing
against an Army of tough men, and you say: I doubt they would take me to
pieces, would your doubts make a true statement, or your doubts would show
only ignorance and under estimating? Yes, Qur’aan there is no doubt
about it, even when we Muslims have so much doubt about the Christians New
Testament, Christians would tell us how there book has no doubt it. Allah
says: let whosoever chooses to be a believer, and whosoever chooses to be
other wise, the day will come when we will face Him.
Fighting
an army of tough men where your death is certain is foolish, but to bring
that example here is a non sequitur fallacy. An army standing in front of
me is a fact. There is no need to prove the existence of such an army. You
want me to believe in your fairytale as if it is true and fear it like I
would fear a real army without providing any evidence that such thing
exist. This is foolishness. You
haven’t yet give us a single proof that Muhammad was a prophet of God
and his Allah is the real God and you want us to comply already. This is
like I tell you I am God and if you don’t believe in me I will slice you
like ham and demand obedience. Is that enough proof for you to believe in
me and do what I tell you? Wouldn’t you first demand that I give you the
proof of my claim before submitting to my command? So far you said nothing
but logical fallacies.
Now we Muslims ask the question: are those who are in
doubt about Qur’aan in good state, do they doubt it out of knowledge, or
out of ignorance, now this is left to be debated.
The fallacy of the Quran is proven. I reject the
Quran with knowledge. You believe in that book of hodgepodge out of
ignorance and faith. Of course those who reject the Quran are in better
state than those who believe in it. Muslims are the poorest and the most
backward people of the world and the only reason for that is that they
follow the Quran.
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Quote:
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You said: When it says it guides those who
are righteous also shows it is a redundant book. However, you may
get away with this by interpreting the mottaqeen as “those who
are fearful”
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I say: I do not need to get away with anything; I am
just correcting your lack of knowledge about the meaning of the word
Muttaqein, and not to allow you to get away with it.
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Then we spoke of Allah’s illogical behavior
of sealing the hearts of the people, misleading them and then
punishing them. We saw that the Quran even claims that if Allah
wanted to guide people, it would be easy for him but he does not
do it on purpose. These verses show Allah is not God but Satan.
The job of God is guiding people and saving them and the job of
Satan is to mislead them, trick them and make them err.
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I say: This and the rest of your debate will be answered next time with
the wish of the LORD, you should have brought one topic at the time, by
the end of my answers even you will realize you brought so many. Not
answering may lead you to the wrong assumption I acknowledge what you say,
and I don’t wish you to get the wrong impressions. Now, before I
continue answering this message, let me wait to see if you still have
anything else to say about the same here, would you do us a favor by not
moving to another topic until we are done with this? Now, if you do not
have anything else to say here, just ask me to continue answering what you
sent in this message, before you send another message if you don’t mind,
let us finish one topic at the time, I hope one day you will. "
That is what we agreed in the first session. But you
failed to prove anything and asked me “How Muhammad knew about the
smoke”. That is now clarified. You then asked me to show an error from
the Quran. I asked you about the embryo. Muhammad goofed here. You seem
not to understand even the question. Then I asked about the mathematical
errors of the Quran. So far
you have failed to convince us that the Quran is from God. While I have
shown it is not and it contains many errors.
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