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This debate took place in the forum
posted Thu Apr 10, 2003 6:14 pm
By Shuryah
| Quote: |
| When we read the Quran we see that that book is
full of errors and absurdities and when we read the Hadith we see
that this man was a criminal pervert terrorist sadist villain
narcissist |
Go Ali - don't hold back! Quite some hefty charges here, so let us see:
"errors and absurdities": By this I assume you mean everything
that doesn't fit into your Western-mode of rational thought, like the
miracles of the Prophets etc. Or perhaps you are alluding to the spurious
claims of Qur'anic inconsistency with scientific knowledge today. That's
another debate, but just a hunch.
"criminal": By this I assume you mean because Muhammad (peace be
upon him) took booty from wars. So what if he did? As a statesman he could
do whatever he liked with the spoils, so he saw the benefit for the
community in keeping it. Hardly a crime. Otherwise, he was not known to be
a thief, a swindler, a rackateer or anything else, but was famed for his
unrivalled magnamity. Do you know of any other statesman, who whilst
having the entire riches of the land in his dominion, still died with only
a handful of belongings due to his generosity?
"pervert": By this I assume you mean because of his marriage to
'Aishah. Well, the people of his time, including his staunchest enemies
didn't complain about it, so why should you, particularly when 'Aishah,
due to this close relationship with Muhammad (peace be upon him), became a
scholar amongst the Companions. Yes, such a marriage is completely
disliked from a Western perspective, but from the Arab perspective it's
not and never was. The Western method encourages young girls into
sexuality from an early age, but teaches them nothing about responsibility
and the importance of family. Hence, the large and ever-growing population
of single-mothers, who experimented while still young, and suffered the
consequences forever. So is realisation of natural sexual curiosities
better in a single or married environment? I think the answer is obvious.
"terrorist": As a statesman he has the right to cause his
enemies to fear, just as Israel has done, and just as America has done
recently in Iraq. To terrorise the enemies is part of war, as every nation
knows. But you seem to think it's alright for Western democracies to
terrorise people into submission and not alright for an Islamic state -
how do you judge?
"sadist": The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines sadism as:
"1: a sexual perversion in which gratification is obtained by the
infliction of physical or mental pain on others (as on a love object). 2 a
: delight in cruelty b : excessive cruelty". Please give me one
single hadith wherein the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) delighted
in some sort of bizarre sexual cruelty. This word was rather a wild fling
wouldn't you say?
"villain": When I think of the word "villain", I think
of characters such as Jekkyl and Hyde; the Great Train Robber whats-his-name;
the McDonald's Hamburglar guy; Ned Kelly perhaps; Darth Vader... I don't
think Muhammad, peace be upon him, fits into this category somehow.
"narcissist": Meaning one who adores or loves one's self too
much - I don't see this in Muhammad, peace be upon him. In fact, we see
quite the opposite. Didn't he once say: "Don't do as the Christians
have done, they exalted their prophet too much until they made him into a
God. I am only a Prophet and a slave of Allah"? When his son Ibrahim
died, and there followed an eclipse, and the people started saying, 'Look
how Allah grants solace to His slave!', didn't Muhammad (peace be upon
him) divert the attention away from himself and directed it towards God,
saying: 'The sun and moon are two of the signs of Allah and do not eclipse
for the birth or death of anyone', whereas, he could have said:
"Yeah! See that? That's for me!" as a true narcissist and fake
would have done.
Anyway, you could learn from the "Sunnah", dear Ali, of how to
talk about other people and attract people to your cause at the same time.
Wild accusations don't quite cut it I'm afraid.
Regards,
Shurayh.
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2003 12:36 am
By
Ali Sina
Dear Shurayh
Welcome to our forum and thank you for your great responses. I read your
debate with Steven and enjoyed it very much. I did not intervene because I
did not want to enter into the battle of the giants. But I am glad you
addressed me personally. It would be my pleasure to debate with you as I
find you to be a polite, educated and reasonable person.
I propose that we make a deal. We debate on each and every charge that I
made against Muhammad. It would be my responsibility to prove all those
charges. If I fail to do so I will accept defeat and will remove this
site. No, I will do even better. I will not remove this site. I will
remove the content of this site and in each page I will write that I have
been defeated by a Muslim and now I do believe that Muhammad was a
messenger of God. Who knows? I may even take a sword and kill my atheist
neighbor and take his beautiful young wife as booty just as the holy
prophet did with those Jews and pagans. Allahu Akbar! Hey, you never know.
On the other hand your duty is to disprove all my charges against
Muhammad. If you fail I want you to leave Islam and join our cause. Do you
accept this deal? Okay that is up to you but I stick to my end anyway.
The list of all those charges against Muhammad is too long. Let us
take them one by one. Let us start with “perversion”. I am going to
ask you to read a few of my articles that deal with this subject. These
are some of my evidences that Muhammad was an unethical man. He was a
pervert, a man driven by lust and unable to control his animalistic
instincts. I want you to read them all and refute them. If you succeed to
prove that all my charges are wrong, as I said I will remove this site. If
you fail to do so convincingly I will move to the next accusation and
you’ll have another chance to disprove me and bring this site down. If
you fail to do so I will present yet other evidences and bring more
charges against your defendant Muhammad and you will have the chance to
disprove me each and every time. Should you fail to disprove me on all the
charges but one, you win and I lose. How about that? Actually a man who
claims to be a messenger of God and an example for everyone to follow
should not have any flaw. If he has even one flaw he cannot be a messenger
of God. Yet I want to be generous with you. I will still accept Muhammad
to be a messenger of God even if he has 10 unforgivable flaws provided you
disprove at least one of my charges against him.
What do you say to that? Eh? It can’t get better than this. Can it?
Okay these are the articles that I want you to read and respond first.
http://main.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/Juwairiyah.htm
http://main.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/safiyah.htm
http://main.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/mariyah.htm
http://main.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/ayesha_moraleval.htm
http://main.faithfreedom.org/Articles/SKM/zeinab.htm
Please read all these articles first and then respond to my allegations of
immorality and perversity against Muhammad one by one.
I look forward to read your refutation of all these charges and remain
Sincerely yours
Ali Sina
Posted Fri Apr 11, 2003 By Shuryah
To begin: It is an honour that the Grandmaster of
Infidelity has offered to challenge me, but I do feel that many
forthcoming discussions will not end in black and white / right or wrong
conclusions, but rather, they will be left to a matter of belief or
disbelief - a stalemate if you will. So let us look at the conditions
proposed:
| Quote: |
| I propose that we make a deal. We debate on each
and every charge that I made against Muhammad. It would be my
responsibility to prove all those charges. If I fail to do so I
will accept defeat and will remove this site. No, I will do even
better. I will not remove this site. I will remove the content of
this site and in each page I will write that I have been defeated
by a Muslim and now I do believe that Muhammad was a messenger of
God. Who knows? I may even take a sword and kill my atheist
neighbor and take his beautiful young wife as booty just as the
holy prophet did with those Jews and pagans. Allahu Akbar! Hey,
you never know. On the other hand your duty is to disprove all my
charges against Muhammad. If you fail I want you to leave Islam
and join our cause. Do you accept this deal? Okay that is up to
you but I stick to my end anyway. |
It is impossible for a Muslim to negotiate disbelief, but I will do my
best to answer your accusations. And how will you, O great Ali Sina, after
all your work and effort aimed at dismantling Islam, then turn around,
admit defeat, recant from your former position, and accept Islam? I
personally can't see it, but hey - you never know. There would be no need
to kill your neighbor and take his wife, as the authorities might put you
in jail for a long, long period of time and we'll have no real need for
you there. You see, a Muslim is obliged to stick to his pledge regarding
his stay in a non-Muslim state, which includes safe-guarding the rights of
others. And even if it were a Muslim state, it would be a great sin, for
you would have violated the rights of the Mu`ahhad,
one who stays in the Muslim land by virtue of his abiding by the covenant
between him and the Muslim state. So again Ali, you have gone
"off-handle" in an uncontrolled moment of self-confidence. I
would have thought better of you good doctor
Now, what can be done regarding the pages wherein I have shattered you,
since I don't think that in many cases, you would even admit to defeat and
actually remove your articles, you can put my refutation beneath each
article of yours I crush in red (or some other eye-attracting colour), so
that it will be left to the reader's discretion to follow your view or
mine. How's that? Since this is going to be quite a lengthy affair,
patience is encouraged, and with that, I will begin to take apart your
first accusation, perhaps in another thread...
Bismillaah...
Regards,
Shurayh.
Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2003 4:59 am
By Ali Sina
Dear Shurayh
Thank you for your response:
| Quote: |
| To begin: It is an honour that the Grandmaster of
Infidelity has offered to challenge me, |
Oh you give me too much credit. I am just an average guy. I read the Quran
and realized Islam is not a true religion. There is nothing grand about
me, not even infidelity.
| Quote: |
| but I do feel that many forthcoming discussions
will not end in black and white / right or wrong conclusions, but
rather, they will be left to a matter of belief or disbelief - a
stalemate if you will. |
It really does not matter who wins or who loses. One who learns most is
the winner. You and I will be acting as lawyers. You represent Muhammad
and I the Rational Thinking we argue with each other and present our
evidence. Then we’ll leave it to the readers to make their minds.
| Quote: |
| And how will you, O great Ali Sina, after all your
work and effort aimed at dismantling Islam, then turn around,
admit defeat, recant from your former position, and accept Islam? |
My dear Shurayh, My allegiance is to the truth and not to a set of
doctrines. Do you think leaving Islam was easy? No! It was a tormenting
path, riddled with fear, uncertainty, guilt, anger and desperation. If I
managed to go from belief to disbelief and survived, I can do anything,
including going back to believing. Believing is always easier than
disbelieving. In disbelief you are on your own. You know that you have to
chart your own path and use your own intelligence as your compass. It is
much easier, on the other hand, to believe and let someone else guide you.
| Quote: |
| There would be no need to kill your neighbor and
take his wife, as the authorities might put you in jail for a
long, long period of time. |
Darn! I forgot for a moment that I am living in a non-Islamic country
where human rights are respected and you cannot act barbarously without
impunity. However, I will wait until a lot of Muslims immigrate and our
numbers grow. Then we can make Jihad in this Dar al Harb and convert it to
Dar al Islam. Meanwhile I will keep an eye at the wives and the properties
of my good neighbors and business associates. When the Jihad stars I will
kill them, take their belongings and their wives as booty. How about that?
Please don’t say I cannot do it. I get my guidance from the Hadith.
| Quote: |
Abu
Dawud: Book 19, Number 2996:
Narrated Muhayyisah:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: If you gain a
victory over the men of Jews, kill them. So Muhayyisah jumped over
Shubaybah, a man of the Jewish merchants. He had close relations
with them. He then killed him. At that time Huwayyisah (brother of
Muhayyisah) had not embraced Islam. He was older than Muhayyisah.
When he killed him, Huwayyisah beat him and said: O enemy of
Allah, I swear by
Allah, you have a good deal of fat in your belly from his property. |
Tabari, the great historian, gives a little bit more details and narrates
that Muhayyisah informs his brother that this is what the Prophet has
ordered and if he had ordered to kill him (his own brother) he would do it. Huwayyisah asks, “By Allah would you kill me, your own brother
if Muhammad asks you to do it?” Muhayysah responds, “By Allah if he
asks me, I would”. At that point Huwayyisah accepts Islam and says “By
Allah a religion that has made you like this must be from God”.
From this you can see how Islam grew
and what kind of evidence made people believe in Muhammad. You can also
see why the heinous crimes perpetrated by Muhammad did not bother the
early believers and in fact were regarded as signs of him being the
messenger of God. Islam is a religion of savagery, made by a savage for
savages. The war against Islam is the war against savagery. This war must
be won if our civilization is to survive.
| Quote: |
| Now, what can be done regarding the pages wherein
I have shattered you, since I don't think that in many cases, you
would even admit to defeat and actually remove your articles, you
can put my refutation beneath each article of yours I crush in red
(or some other eye-attracting colour), so that it will be left to
the reader's discretion to follow your view or mine. How's that? |
I think what I would do is to put a link at the end of my articles saying
“Read a Muslim’s response to this article” In this way the integrity
of my original write ups are preserved and people can read your responses
to them. Of course at the
end of your responses I will place another link and say “read my
response to this response” or something like that? How’s that? Do you
know of any Islamic site that would do such thing? I don’t think so!
They are afraid to give a link to our site even when they try to refute
us.
| Quote: |
Since this is going to be quite a lengthy affair,
patience is encouraged, and with that, I will begin to take apart
your first accusation, perhaps in another thread...
Bismillaah... |
I look forward to you taking apart my accusations.
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2003
12:57 am By
Shuryah
Dr. Ali Sina, has charged the Prophet
Muhammad (upon whom be peace) with being a "pervert", and
provided the following articles which he penned to back up his claim:
http://main.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/Juwairiyah.htm
http://main.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/safiyah.htm
http://main.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/mariyah.htm
http://main.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/ayesha_moraleval.htm
http://main.faithfreedom.org/Articles/SKM/zeinab.htm
So, in order to exhonerate the Prophet Muhammad (saas) of this vile
charge, I say the following:
The word "pervert" dates in the English language circa 1661,
meaning one that has deviated from right and commonly accepted conduct,
particularly in sexual matters. The Oxford dictionary provides a long list
of synonyms to get to the meaning of the word, such as: "abnormal,
amoral, bad, corrupt, debauched, degenerate, depraved, deviant, evil,
immoral, improper..." etc. The Cambridge dictionary says: "a
person whose sexual behaviour is considered strange and unpleasant by most
people".
So what we can deduce, is that the word "pervert" refers to a
person who has stepped outside the commonly-accepted norms of society due
to his sexual behaviour or misbehaviour.
Was this the case with the Prophet Muhammad? I think not. In all of the
stories linked to above, we do not find anything that the society of the
Prophet's time found to be immoral or debauched. Are we to judge the
Prophet's actions based upon our Christian/Western outlook on life,
society and etiquette? Of course not, because that is a wrong and biased
approach; a premise spawned from the fact that Western culture has gained
predominance in the world. But what we should do, is look to see if any of
the Prophet's contemporaries found anything wrong with his sexual conduct,
and to that the answer is no. The only time when the hypocrites cited
anything against the Prophet in this regard was when he wedded Zaynab bint
Jahsh, who was to become his fifth wife instead of the Qur'anically
junctioned four (while the disbelievers still married as many women as
they liked).
Was it socially unnacceptable to the Quraish to have more than four wives?
No, as they had many, many more. The only argument that could be raised is
that it went past the Qur'anic limit of four - a limit that the Qur'an
itself imposed. And it was the Qur'an again (read: Allah) that allowed
Muhammad (peace be upon him) to take more for various reasons. Did taking
more than four wives go against Quraish culture? No. Did taking more than
four wives go against Islamic culture? No again, because Islamic culture
is built upon the fact that Allah's Laws come first, and if He allowed His
Prophet who strove hard for His Cause to take more, then we, as Muslims
accept that. So this cannot be seen as a form of "perversion".
Furthermore, if it were claimed that the Prophet (saas) was a
"pervert" due to his fondness of women, then this is a grave
injustice. This would mean that we have to apply the term
"pervert" to 90% of the male species! His fondness for women is
something which he himself testified to and is simply another indication
of his sincere honesty, when he said: "Made beloved to me from your
world are women and perfume, and the coolness of my eyes is in
prayer." (Ahmad and Nasaa`i)
And if you say he was "perverted" because of his taking slave
girls (as was the commonly done thing back then, so that in itself can not
be used to charge perversion with), then I ask you why did he not take the
girl mentioned in this hadith, even though she was one of the prettiest in
Arabia?:
[Recorded by Muslim in his Sahih: Kitab Al-Jihad wa'l-Siyar, Book 19,
No. 4345] "It has been narrated on the authority of Salama (b. al-Akwa')
who said: We fought against the Fazara and Abu Bakr was the commander over
us. He had been appointed by the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon
him). When we were only at an hour's distance from the water of the enemy,
Abu Bakr ordered us to attack. We made a halt during the last part of the
night tor rest and then we attacked from all sides and reached their
watering-place where a battle was fought. Some of the enemies were killed
and some were taken prisoners. I saw a group of persons that consisted of
women and children. I was afraid lest they should reach the mountain
before me, so I shot an arrow between them and the mountain. When they saw
the arrow, they stopped. So I brought them, driving them along. Among them
was a woman from Banu Fazara. She was wearing a leather coat. With her was
her daughter who was one of the prettiest girls in Arabia. I drove them
along until I brought them to Abu Bakr who bestowed that girl upon me as a
prize. So we arrived in Medina. I had not yet disrobed her when the
Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) met me in the street and said:
Give me that girl, O Salama. I said: Messenger of Allah, she has
fascinated me. I had not yet disrobed her. When on the next day. the
Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) again met me in the street, he
said: O Salama, give me that girl, may God bless your father. I said: She
is for you. Messenger of Allah! By Allah. I have not yet disrobed her. The
Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent her to the people of
Mecca, and surrendered her as ransom for a number of Muslims who had been
kept as prisoners at Mecca."
No doubt, the Prophet (saas) would have taken her for himself, if he truly
was as lecherous as you people imply, and no one from the Companions would
have said a single word in opposition; but he didn’t – he ransomed her
to set free some Muslims in Mecca – something which a real lecherous or
perverted man could never do without first ‘disrobing’ her.
So hopefully with this, the charge of “perversion” is lifted from the
noble personality of the Prophet (peace be upon him), and if the articles
written by Dr. Sina were written to prove this against the Prophet, then
they have been refuted, because the context or light which Mr .Sina would
like his viewers to perceive these articles is in a Western light with
Western sensibilities; what may be “perverted” to someone in Arabia,
may be “standard” to someone in the West, and what may be
“standard” in Arabia, may be “perverted” to people in the West.
The word “pervert” can not really be applied cross-culturally or
trans-historically; so the word should be taken back from Mr. Sina
publically and apologetically, as it is a “perversion” from common
decency, to cast libel against a man whom millions of people worldwide
love and consider to be a Prophet of God.
Regards,
Shurayh.
Posted: Sun Apr
13, 2003 1:47 am By
Shuryah
Dear Ali,
A few posts above, you said:
| Quote: |
When the Jihad stars I will kill them take their
belongings and their wives as booty. How about that? Please
don’t say I cannot do it. I get my guidance from the Hadith.
Quote:
Abu Dawud: Book 19, Number 2996:
Narrated Muhayyisah:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: If you gain a
victory over the men of Jews, kill them. So Muhayyisah jumped over
Shubaybah, a man of the Jewish merchants. He had close relations
with them. He then killed him. At that time Huwayyisah (brother of
Muhayyisah) had not embraced Islam. He was older than Muhayyisah.
When he killed him, Huwayyisah beat him and said: O enemy of
Allah, I swear by Allah, you have a good deal of fat in your belly
from his property. |
Wow, you're really insistent on becoming a threat to society! Muslims are
not allowed to take hadiths without first seeking the explanation of it
and the checking of it, because indeed, many hadiths were fabricated and
many others are weak due to other reasons. And this hadith of Muhayyisah
killing the Jewish merchant is a weak
hadith, meaning it is not allowed to be practised upon or taken as
an actual historical event. This was deemed weak by the great Muhaddith of
the last century Shaikh Naasiruddin al-Albaani in his Dha'eef
Abi Dawood, no. 648.
I wonder how many other premises you have on this website that are based
upon weak or fabricated hadiths? Here is an excellent article summising
the position of the early Muslim scholars (and some later) in using weak
hadiths. Please read it thoroughly: http://www.islaam.org.uk/ie/ilm/aqeedah/0026.htm
So with that, I hope you remove every article on your website wherein you
have used this false hadith, as it is not allowed Islamically to attribute
this to Islam. To use this hadith in saying this is how Muslims are
allowed to behave is wrong, false and erroneous and amounts to
fear-mongering against ordinary Muslim civilians. I do hope you prove true
to your word and remove whatever articles may possess this hadith. Thank
you,
Regards,
Shurayh.
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2003
5:58 am By
Shuryah
Ali, have you forgotten about your challenge? I
see you still haven't removed the Muhayyisah hadith from your front page,
isn't that a trifle dishonest and against your word? Or are you going to
take the huge task of hadith criticism upon your own shoulders and decide
for yourself what's allowable in Islamic law and what's not? Again, a
trifle dishonest. Anyways, as they say in some parts of my land, "oo-roo".
lol
Posted:
Thu Apr 17, 2003 1:36 pm By
Ali Sina
Dear Shuryah,
I did not respond to you right away and wanted to give you some time to
mull over your own apologetic message. You seem to be a decent person but
deeply brainwashed by your religion. I hoped if I leave you some space
you’d see the foolishness of your argument. Okay may be with you it
takes a little bit more time. However I am sure you have the potential to
redeem yourself and with time you’ll unshackle your mind from the
manacles of this mind-numbing cult.
Let us see what is so obviously flawed in your argument.
You did not read the links I gave you because the answer to
your apologetics are already given there. I hope that you read them. But
first let us take a look once again at the Hadith you posted and highlight
the salient points.
[Recorded by Muslim in his Sahih: Kitab Al-Jihad wa'l-Siyar, Book 19,
No. 4345] "It has been narrated on the authority of Salama (b. al-Akwa')
who said: We fought against the Fazara and Abu Bakr was the commander over
us. He had been appointed by the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon
him). When we were only at an
hour's distance from the water of the enemy, Abu Bakr ordered us to
attack. We made a halt during the last part of the night to rest
and then we attacked from all
sides and reached their watering-place where a battle was fought. Some
of the enemies were killed and some were taken prisoners. I
saw a group of persons that consisted of women
and children.
I was afraid lest they should reach the mountain before me, so I
shot an arrow between them and the mountain. When they saw the arrow, they
stopped. So I brought them, driving them along. Among them was a woman
from Banu Fazara. She was wearing a leather coat. With her was her
daughter who was one of the prettiest girls in Arabia. I drove them along
until I brought them to Abu Bakr who bestowed that girl upon me as a
prize. So we arrived in Medina. I had not yet disrobed her when the
Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) met me in the street and said:
Give me that girl, O Salama. I said: Messenger of Allah, she has
fascinated me. I had not yet
disrobed her. When on the next day. the Messenger of Allah (may
peace be upon him) again met me in the street, he said: O Salama, give me
that girl, may God bless your father. I said: She is for you. Messenger of
Allah! By Allah. I have not yet disrobed her. The
Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent
her to the people of Mecca, and surrendered her as ransom for a
number of Muslims who had been kept as prisoners at Mecca."
Now let us see what is so inhuman and so shameful in this Hadith and why a
decent person like you cannot see it.
First of all it is clear that contrary to what Muslim apologists’
claim, who like Said al Sahhaf (Saddam's information minister) lie profusely and brazenly, this war was
not defensive but the innocent population of Fazara was attacked by
Muslims. Many of them were killed and women and children were taken as
hostage. Think about it. What kind of beastly mentality Muhammad and his
companions had to take women and children as prisoners of war! Why would a
messenger of God attack a civilian population, kill them and take them as
hostages? Is that what messengers of God are supposed to do? Imagine you are living in your city married
happily raising your kids and a group of marauding gangsters claiming to
be men of God invade your town, kill your husband and take you and your
children as prisoners of war. Then you are sold as slave and your young
and pretty daughter is snatched from you and sent to another town instead
of money as ransom to free some of the companions of those gangsters. You
quote this Hadith to impress us about the high moral standards of your
prophet. What is so moral about it?
Why Muhammad attacked Fazara in the first place?
Why he killed the men of that town?
Why he took the women and children as prisoners of war?
Why the companions of Muhammad thought it is okay if they have sex with
their prisoners of war?
Why Muhammad did not rebuke them for taking these women and children as
prisoners?
Why Muhammad did not free the women and children but rather chose a pretty
child and used her as pawn to payoff for the liberation of his friends and
sent her to another city? What do you think the Meccans did with her? She
became the slave girl of another filthy man.
There is no mention of the name or the age of that girl. She must have
been very young. Because the narrator speaks of her mother first and
describes this girl as being with her mother.
Muhammad looted all the belongings of his victims and his followers
received their booty from the wealth and the family of those poor dead
souls. Yet this greedy man did not want to pay the ransom of his captured
friends in Mecca but rather used the share of one of his companions for
that purpose. What was the benefit of this for that little girl? She was
first orphaned as Muslims killed her father, then separated from her mother who also became a slave to the marauding Muslims
and was given to the Meccans to become the sex-slave of someone else.
Muhammad treated these women and children as cattle. Didn’t this part
of the Hadith bother you at all? What if this was done to you? How does that feel? I. I was a Muslim too and
like you and like all other Muslims I
was numb to all these things. I just did not think about it. I dismissed
anything that could shake my faith because that was painful.
The question that arises is: did Muhammad care about the freedom of his
friends? No! To him lives meant nothing. He told his men to fight, kill
and get killed. All he cared for was fighting men. Those men taken as
hostages, could go to war and advance his megalomaniac ambitions of
grandiosity and conquest. So it was a very calculated tradeoff. Take the
part of the booty that belongs to someone else and with it free some of
your fighting men.
Where is the morality of this? What kind of God would sanction such a
behavior?
Why God would want his followers to attack innocent people, kill them and
take their women and children as prisoners?
Shuryah, if Allah really exists he is the Devil. Please save your soul
before it is too late. If hell really exists you are heading there. Please
save your soul before it is too late. Muhammad was a sadist crazy man like
David
Koresh and other cult leaders. Islam grew only by deceit and by force.
Now that we have the Internet and the truth cannot be eclipsed, Islam is
going to die very fast. Don’t be part of the army of evil. Join the army
of light. The great sun of truth has risen; don’t remain in your couch
of negligence. This is the battle between right and wrong. The truth has
come and it is manifest as sun. Falsehood is vanishing fast.
You wrote:
| Quote: |
| No doubt, the Prophet (saas) would have taken her
for himself, if he truly was as lecherous as you people imply, and
no one from the Companions would have said a single word in
opposition; but he didn’t – he ransomed her to set free some
Muslims in Mecca – something which a real lecherous or perverted
man could never do without first ‘disrobing’ her. |
How bizarre is your logic!.
The right thing would have been that Muhammad never invaded these towns and never took
any women and children as captives. The next right thing would have been that he
ordered his followers to free all the women and children. He did not do
that either. He did not even free that little girl but used her to pay for
the ransom of his friends. And you think just because he did not sleep
with her he qualifies to be a messenger of God? And you are so impressed
by this that you are willing to forgive him for all other occasions that
he took the prettiest girls and had sex with them on the same day he
killed their loved ones? What about the Juwairiyah,
Safiyah, Rayhanah or Mariyah?
Did you read their story? I am sure you did not or you would not have come
up to defend this evil monster.
Read the
story of
David Koresh
and see the similarity. Just because Muhammad was
not destroyed and he and his men could kill, loot, conquer and grow it
does not make Islam a true religion. Islam is going to die and you will
see the death of this cult in your own lifetime, (unless you are really
old). We are becoming an army. We are going to take full potential of the
power of the Internet and we are going to expose the ugly face of this
devilish cult. Soon when we have the means we will move to other media
such as radio to reach every village in Bangladesh, Sudan and Saudi
Arabia. Every Muslim will hear this message and the great exodus of Islam
will begin. This exodus has already begun. It is like a ball of snow
rolling down from a snowing mountain. Islam’s days are numbered. Many of
us shall see the death of Islam before we see our own.
Read the Quran not as a brainwashed Muslim but as a human being with
brains and conscience. Then you can see what we see. Joint us in this
great battle of light against darkness. We will be victorious because
light is more powerful than darkness and truth always wins.
As for the story of Muhayyisah you simply denied the authenticity of
it. If it was the only story depicting Islam as a cult of terror, I could
have agreed with you, yet this is nothing out of ordinary. The books of
hadithes are full of such stories to the extent that some of the Muslims
have decided to denounce them altogether. Nevertheless the Quran is no
less violent. There are hundreds of verses in the Quran that call for the
killing innocent people because of their faith.
| Quote: |
| Or are you going to take the huge task of hadith
criticism upon your own shoulders and decide for yourself what's
allowable in Islamic law and what's not? Again, a trifle
dishonest. |
I already discussed about the hadith and their authenticity.
You can read it
here. I read the link you gave me. Please read my response to it.
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