Al Rahman Al Raheem
"Maher Kassem" <[email protected]>
Dear Ali Sina,
I will begin by giving you the greeting of Islam and Muslimeen, Salam
Aleykum. First of all I would like to give a short description of myself,
so that you are able to identify who I am. Firstly, I am a Shiite from
Lebanon. My age is known only unto Allah (SWT), and my name shall be for
this letter, Ghareeb.
Now, on the main page of the challenge you said that if Muslim was able
to disprove you that you would take your site down. Well *if* I succeed in
disproving you, you are free to make a decision whether or not to take
your site down, but if you decide to leave it up, I ask of you only one
thing kind sir, and that is to paste rid your site of all other debates,
and include only this one (Insha Allah the one that disproves you) and
your Quotes from the Quran and the actual criterion of the debate. I ask
this so that Muslims abroad will see, what, if anything was able to defeat
you. I will split my letter into sections, and each section will Insha
Allah answer each section of your argument. Here we go.
Firstly I will begin kind sir, by posting the Ayats from the Quran that
you quoted, and underneath them will be the meaning of them. Insha Allah
the meaning will be logical, and it will be clear.
Those who break Allah's Covenant after it is ratified, and who sunder what
Allah Has ordered to be joined, and do mischief on earth: These cause loss
(only) to themselves.
(As we can see from this translation,
this Ayat is nothing more then a warning. It simply tells people that if
they dont believe, or disbelieve after believing, that Allah (SWT) will
punish them on the Day of Judgement. Now if we look at the reason of
creation, we see that this is simply another chance, or a test given to us
by Allah (SWT) in order to attempt to repent and denounce our awful sin.)
Ali Sina Responds:
reason of creation, as you describe it, is quite unreasonable. I did not
ask to be born to this world. It is cruel of a god to create me without my
consent and demand from me to do certain things and if I fail to do so
torture me and punish me for eternity.
speak of “repentance” and “awful sins”. I have not committed any
sin to repent. What is the definition of sin? Sin in my vocabulary is
hurting someone, or hurting an animal. But killing people and sacrificing
animals pleases your Allah. My values are distinct from the values of
Allah. Sin to Allah is disbelieving in him. This is to me an absurdity. It
is actually a mental disease. Why a true God would be so desperate to be
known and worshiped? Why he would torture people for eternity if they fail
to bow in front of him? This is a needy god; he cannot be the
self-sufficing creator of this universe. This is a merciless god; he
cannot be the loving God.
god, based on your own description, is a psychopath. What would you say of
a king or a dictator who demands from his subjects to praise him day and
night and if someone fails to do so put him in jail, torture him everyday
and every hour? You would say that he is insane.
why Muhammad’s god is so despotic? Because this Muhammad was a
psychopath! His god was an emanation of his own sick mind. Muhammad was a
narcissist with an underdeveloped sense of morality. Here is a piece from
an article on Narcissism that can shed some light on the psyche of
Muhammad. “Narcissists lack a mature conscience and seem to be
restrained only by fear of being punished or of damaging their
reputations… Their moral intelligence is about at the level of a bright
five- or six-year-old; the only rules they recognize are things that have
been specifically required, permitted, prohibited, or disapproved of by
authority figures they know personally. Anyhow, narcissists can't be
counted on not to do something just because it's wrong,
illegal, or will hurt someone, as long as they think that they can get
away with it or that you can't stop them or punish them (i.e., they don't
care what you think unless they're afraid of you) http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/traits.html#amoral
As you can see this perfectly
describes the idiosyncrasy of Muhammad. Allah was nothing but his own
alter ego—a reflection of his own higher self. Muhammad could not be
moral just because morality is a good thing. He thought for every good
action there must be a reward and for every mistake a punishment. His
moral intelligence was so low that he did not base his values of the
absolute right and wrong like what hurts others and what benefits them but
on belief and disbelief in his fictitious god. Muhammad had no concept of
the Golden Rule. When he hurt people, murdered them, looted their
belongings, raped their wives and took as hostage their children, he had
no pang of conscience. Only through understanding Muhammad neurotic
disorder and his narcissistic pathology we can understand his obsession
with religion and his twisted value system. This explains why Muhammad was
so excessively preoccupied with belief and disbelief, punishment and
reward. He was virtually incapable to prescribe good for the sake of good.
He needed that vision of paradise with everything that to him was the
source of delight, like having sex with many women, drinking wine and
fooling around with young boys. He also needed to remind himself of
tortures, fires and eternal punishment in order to avoid doing wrong. This
is typical of those afflicted by Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD).
"But those who reject Faith and belie Our Signs, they shall be
companions of the Fire; they shall abide therein."
(The same argument applies to the last ayat. Insha Allah (SWT), to save
some time for myself in writing this letter, and for you to reply, I will
only include Ayats that propose new ideas.)
The same answer applies here to.
long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be
upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they
forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity)
then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend
nor helper from among them,"
(Now to begin with, the translation for
this Ayat has a lot of interpretation on the part of the Translators. This
is not your fault in anyway, and I will not blame you for a mistake that
others have made. The Raw translation is: "They wish that you should
enjoin in the forbidden as they have enjoined in the forbidden so that you
may be on one level, so do not take from them any leaders until they
migrate unto the way of Allah (SWT), and if they become leaders then take
them and kill them wherever you find them and dont take from among them
leaders or helpers" Now that is the raw translation of the Ayat,
This is the verse in
is the verse in question. It says fala
tattakhithoo minhum awliyaa hatta yuhajiroo
fee sabeeli Allahi Awliyyaa
means friends or protectors it is the plural of wali. The verse is very
clear. It says: “Do not befriend them unless they emigrate (from Mecca)
for the sake (in the way) of Allah”. But the disturbing part is: fa-in
tawallaw fakhuthoohum waoqtuloohum haythu
wajadtumoohum. The meaning of this is: “But if they return, take them and kill them
wherever you find them.”
matter how you want to explain it or twist the meaning of this verse, this
is what the verse says and this is how I and other Muslims understand it.
idea of fighting in the way of God is repeated ad nauseam in the entire
Quran. Just a few verses before this we read.
fight (O Muhammad) in the Cause of Allâh, you are not tasked (held
responsible) except for yourself, and incite the believers (to fight along
with you), it may be that Allâh will restrain the evil might of the
disbelievers. And Allâh is Stronger in Might and Stronger in
Basically what it is saying is that if
a disbeliever becomes a leader among you, then wherever you find them kill
them (the disbelieving leader). And do not take the disbelieving leaders
as leaders or as helpers.
of course you are following a person who suffered from NPD, your moral
intelligence has remained at the same level of the moral intelligence of
your guru. You are unable to see that it is evil to kill someone because
he differs with you. You have taken it for granted that if someone says
something contrary to Islam he must be put to death. When you follow an
insane man with severe psychological disorders this is what you get: a sick
society that licenses killing people on the ground of disagreement with
the established dogma.
Let us say that here the word
awlyyaa means leaders as you say. If one says something and others find
his words more reasonable, then that person becomes a leader. Should we
kill him? If Islam’s logic is superior why it needs to kill those who
oppose it? If you could defeat your opponents by reason, no one would
follow them and they won’t be leading anyone. But Muhammad knew
perfectly that if people reason no one would believe in him. That is why
he ordered killing those who criticized his bogus religion.
This is so because if a disbeliever is
the ruler of the muslims, then the that leader will force muslims to do
things that are against Islam. This is why Imam Hussein (AS) would not
take Yazid as his Caliphate. He knew Yazid was a disbeliever.)
are many Muslims who have immigrated to the West. Unlike in Islamic
countries where the non-Muslims have reduced rights, the Muslims in the
Kafirland enjoy equal rights with anyone else. Are you saying that they
should disobey their non-Muslims rulers?
all deceitful manipulations you Muslims cannot hide your inner thoughts
and do give away what you really feel. This should serve as a warning to all
those who do not believe in Islam. Here we have a confession of a Muslim
saying that Muslims are not allowed to obey the non-Muslim rulers and in
fact are required to kill them.
Hearken oh ye unbelievers:
There are many things that Muslims want to do that you kafirs do not
allow. They want to stone to death the adulterers; you are not letting
them. They want to chop the hands of the thieves; you do not allow them.
They want to kill their daughters if they talk to strangers in order to
save the honor of the family; this is a taboo for you. You do not let them
circumcise their daughters by cutting their clitoris. You are oppressing
the Muslims. You are not letting them practice the Sharia. You are forcing
them to do things that are against Islam. Woe to you oh ye disbelievers.
Muslims must kill your leaders. Don’t you see what the holy Quran says?
Don’t you pay attention to what Muslims say? Do you still wonder why
Muslims want to kill you? Read Mr. Ghareeb’s explanation of the Quran
and you’ll find out.
Volume 9, Book 83, Number 17:
Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none
has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot
be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who
commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam
(apostate) and leaves the Muslims."
(Now to begin with, as a Shiite, I do not in any way associate myself
with these books of blasphemy such as Bukhari and Muslim. We use them only
as a source of reference when we are debating our Sunnite brothers, and
this is so because logic says, in order for someone to believe you, you
must give them proof from something they believe in. In the 6 books of
Sahih for the Sunnite brothers you see such narrations like Moses (AS)
hits the Angel of Death (AS) in the eye and that Moses (AS) runs among the
people naked, and that a rock steals his clothes. The Prophet (PBUH &HF)
has given us a system for identifying whether a hadith is sahih or not.
This system is that first we compare it to the Quran and if it does not
contradict whats in the Quran, then that is one step covered, and the
second is to see if it withstands the test of logic. If the hadith is not
logical, or is not logically accepted, then it is not true. So with this
in mind, I will have to say that the hadith quoted here is false, and not
that you have made it up, but that the Narrator innovated it himself or
someone else innovated it and passed it until finally it came to the
Bukhari Volume 4, Book
54, Number 445:
Narrated Abu Dhar:
The Prophet said, "Gabriel said to me, 'Whoever amongst your
followers die without having worshipped others besides Allah, will enter
Paradise (or will not enter the (Hell) Fire)." The Prophet asked.
"Even if he has committed illegal sexual intercourse or theft?"
He replied, "Even then."
(Now once again kind sir, this hadith contradicts the Quran, so it is
not by any means Sahih. Take a look at this Ayat from the Quran:
[4:16]The couple who commits adultery shall be punished.* If they
reform, you shall leave them alone. GOD is Redeemer, Most Merciful.
So from this we can see that this Hadith contradicts the Quran,
therefore it is false.)
I am afraid your knowledge of Quran is limited.
Here is a verse from the Quran that confirms the above Hadith:
Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He
forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with
Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed.
(Sahih Bukhari 4.260)
Ali burnt some people [hypocrites] and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who
said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the
Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt,
I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim)
discards his religion, kill him.' "
(Once again kind sir, another false hadith Quoted. Before I continue,
shall I tell you that in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, and the 6 books
of Sahih, there is a grand total of only 20% Sahih Hadiths. As is common
belief among the Shiites, that Ali (AS) is infallible. Now if Ali (AS)
makes such a mistake like using Allah (SWT)'s punishment, then
automatically we reject this hadith. You seem to have looked into Sunnite
Islam, but I recommend that you look into the Islam of Ahlulbayt (AS),
Shiite Islam. I think you will find it a lot more logical, a lot more
mercifcul. Now as for proving the Infallibility of Ali (AS), I will not
discuss that now, because it would most likely take one and one half hours
of lecturing to get the full point across, so im sure you can imagine how
long it would take to type. But if you wish to discuss this matter, I
would be more then willing to).
you have said here is denial. I was not a Sunni and I never took Bukhari
and Muslim as sources of guidance. However those books, despite their
errors are the only sources of the early history of Islam. There is no reason
to discard them just because they do not appeal to us anymore or they are embarrassing
to us. Nothing is more embarrassing than the Quran, Denial is
not the answer.
butchered the 750 men of Bani Qurayza? Wasn’t it Ali the cousin and
Zobair an uncle of Muhammad? Who
massacred 4000 unarmed khawarej who sat down in the square of Medina in
protest? How can such butcher be infallible? There are stories about Ali
who with the help of another Muslim killed a poor disbeliever and then
started to fight with that Muslim over the victim’s camel. I do not
think such person could be infallible.
that I am a seyyed. This is such important issue for the Shiits. Ali and
Muhammad are my
direct ancestors. Fortunately their gene after 60 generations or so are so
diluted that count to nothing. You Shiites have blown this butcher Ali so
out of proportion that some even think he is God. Just to make you see how a lie can
be accepted as truth think of the city of Mizar-e Sharif in Afghanistan.
The Afghans say Ali is buried in Mizar-e Sharif, hence the name of the
city, but we all know that Ali never went as far as the present
Afghanistan. So it is a lie, but don’t say that to millions of Afghans.
If millions of people can believe in such historic lie, it shows that it is possible
to fool millions and even a billion people with lies. The infallibility of
Ali is a total lie concocted by Shiites for political purposes and nothing
wrote that Shiism is “a lot more logical, a lot more mercifcul”. Said
who? I was brought up in a Shiite country. I saw the level of barbarity
that Shiites are capable of. As a matter of fact I can say with certainty
that Shiites are the worst Muslims. The treatment we gave to our Sunni
compatriots was utterly inhumane. The Kurds are the very original
Iranians. They are the most courageous and noble members of our country,
yet they have been abused since the time of the Safavids and the rise of
Shiism in Iran. They have been always treated as second-class citizens
because of their Sunni faith. The Shiits treatment of other religious
minorities is anything but humane. The Shiites murdered thousand of Bahais just
because they would not recant. I have lived also in a Sunni country. I can
witness that Shiites are far more fanatical and vicious than the Sunnis. No
one can match the bestiality, the inhumanity, and the barbarity of
Shiites. No wonder, when you have a butcher like Ali as your spiritual
leader, this is the result.
are a member of Hizbullah a terrorist organization that holds a despicable
murderer like Rouhollah Khomeini as their spiritual leader. This man
ordered the execution of three thousand Iranian young boys and girls in
one day. When Ayatollah Montazeri, his then successor, objected; he said
that he would answer to that killing to God. This man was the
very embodiment of Devil. The members of the terrorist organization that
you belong to, have so far murdered thousands of innocent people. Killing
is your answer to everything. Now you tell me that Shiism is “logical”
and “merciful”? hah! You people have no shame! How dare you talk of
mercy when your hearts are darker than the black stone that you worship?
As for the website that you have posted, http://www.thetruereligion.org/apostatepunish
, well what I have to say about this is once again, the hadith quoted here
is false, and it is false because of the reasons I have quoted above. The
more and more I read about your beliefs regarding Islam, I see that you
were exposed to the Sunnite Islam, and not the true Islam. Insha Allah (SWT)
you will take my invitation to read about the real Islam at http://www.al-islam.org
Your assumption is wrong. I started reading the
Sunni Hadithes after I realized Islam is a hoax. I read them, just as you
said, to debate with Sunnis who constitute the majority of Muslims. My
disenchantment with Islam started after I read the Quran in Arabic for the
first time and realized this cannot be from God. My previous readings of
bits and pieces of it in other languages did not open my eyes. The reason
is that all the translations are “sanitized”.
Reading it in Arabic is quite an experience. It is like meeting
devil face to face.
And slay them wherever ye catch them
(Assuming I have got the Ayat correct,
this is what my Quran says:
[2:191] You may kill those who wage war
against you, and you may evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is
worse than murder. Do not fight them at the Sacred Masjid, unless they
attack you therein. If they attack you, you may kill them. This is the
just retribution for those disbelievers.
Now assuming that I have the correct
Ayat and indeed I do, the Quran is not telling you to kill all the
disbelievers because they are disbelievers, but infact it is telling you
to kill those who wage war agaisnt you. In the end of this Ayat, it labels
the people who wage war on us as disbelievers. It does not say kill the
disbelievers in general, it says kill the ones that wage war on you and
verse was “revealed” in conjunction with Muhammad’s attack of Mecca.
Here the aggressor is Muhammad and his army not the Meccans. Muhammad
demands the unconditional surrender of the Meccans. And in this verse he
instructs his followers to kill those who defend themselves. This is the
meaning of “those who wage war with you”. He says if they fight back
kill them, otherwise don’t. To
incite his men and convince them to raise sword against their own
relatives he tells them to evict those who made them emigrate and lose
their homes. In fact Meccans did not evict the Muslims. It was Muhammad
who told them to go and warned them that if they don’t go they will go
to hell and instructed his followers to kill those who go back (as we saw
in the above verse. (4:89)
moral relativist, whom as we discussed had the moral maturity of a 5 or
6-year-old child tells to his followers “Oppression is worse than
murder.” He tells them it
is okay to kill the Meccans because they oppressed you. Now tell me
Mr. Ghareeb, would you rather be expelled from your country or be
executed? Even if it was true that the Meccans oppressed the Muslims,
which is not true at all as I have made it clear in a response
to Ayatollah Montazeri still immorality of Muhammad manifested in this
verse is shocking. Isn’t perhaps this the reason why the Palestinians
think it is okay to kill the Israelis because in their twisted way of
thinking the Israelis have expelled them from their homes?
And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression
(Now assuming I have the correct Ayat
again, my Quran says:
[2:193] You may also fight them to
eliminate oppression, and to worship GOD freely. If they refrain, you
shall not aggress; aggression is permitted only against the aggressors.
Once again this speaks of those who
attack you, and not of those who are disbelievers. In Islam it is
forbidden to begin war or attacking.)
is the continuation of the above verse. So the above explanation applies
here too. Here it says attack Mecca to conquer Kaaba in order to worship
God freely? Why? Is God living in Kaaba? Kaaba was the temple of the
pagans. Why should Muhammad desecrate that temple? Couldn’t he worship
God elsewhere? Is God restricted to a certain place? If attacking Kaaba
was okay because people worshiped other gods beside Allah, should the
Muslims attack Indian temples and destroy them because the Hindus worship
is precisely what it means. Because of the example of abuse set by
Muhammad, Muslims felt it is their religious duty to destroy thousands of
temples belonging to Zoroastrians, Hindus, Buddhists and other religions.
What Muhammad did was barbarous and Muslims follow the example of this
rogue wild-eyed lunatic and this is why we have so much killing and so
much war that will never end until Islam is not slain.
them to eliminate oppression”? What
oppression? The very existence of people of other beliefs for Muslims is
considered to be oppression. I received an e-mail from a terrorist
organization in Nigeria complaining that the Christians are scholars and
they are converting everyone to Christianity. They were seeking funds and
the help of other terrorist organization such as yours, Aq Qaida and Hamas
to start a Jiahd and end this “oppression”.
couple of days ago a humanitarian organization in Pakistan financed by a
Christians was raided that left 6 people dead and many others
injured. What did those volunteers serving the community do to deserve this death?
They were doing
humanitarian work. But the Islamic terrorist considered that as
oppression. If people preach their religion this is for you Muslims
regarded as oppression.
A couple of Months ago also in Pakistan
a Christian run school was attacked and many children were massacred.
the Jews and the Christians of Arabia oppress the Muslims? Why Muhammad
raided their towns massacred them and banished them? Why he ordered the
ethnic cleansing of Arabia from the Jews and the Christians in his
deathbed? Why he attacked Yemen? Were Yemenis oppressing the Muslims? Were
Persians oppressing the Muslims? What about Egypt, Syria, Spain, India or
Muslims have a very twisted mind. Your morality is the same as the
morality of the sick man you follow. Anyone who does not believe in Islam is
considered to be an oppressor. You have the license to kill all of us
because in your convoluted mind we are oppressing the Muslims and usurping
the land that belongs to Allah and therefore we all deserve to die.
am not only an apostate but also writing to expose Islam and hopefully
eradicate it from the face of the Planet. What is my verdict Sir?
But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans
wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for
them in every stratagem.
(Well the Ayat is clear, but lets take
into concideration the one before it.
And now let us look at (9:5) and link
[9:5] Once the Sacred Months are past,
(and they refuse to make peace) you may kill the idol worshipers when you
encounter them, punish them, and resist every move they make. If they
repent and observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory
charity (Zakat), you shall let them go. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
In the first Ayat, it says that if they
make a peace treaty with you, then you are to uphold the treaty, and in
the next Ayat it says that once the Sacred Months have passed, if they
have not made peace with you, then you may slaughter them where ever you
find them. Now because taking 1 Ayat from the Quran can be confusing, we
have to take into concideration that this says to slaughter the people
that have waged war on you, as I have shown you before. So in that
situation, what is wrong with self-defense kind sir?)
I think I have also made it clear that it is not
self-defense we are talking about. Self-defense is a natural reaction of
any living organism. Even bacteria and ameba know how to defend
themselves. Those instructions, as it is clear from the history of
Muhammad’s forays and the Muslim’s aggressive wars, are about
violently raiding the unbelievers and killing those who resist. Those who
“resist” or “any move they make” must be "punished".
Only those who "surrender" and pay the obligatory Zakat can be forgiven. Oh
yeah, and God is “merciful”! What
a mockery of God and his mercy! Even the very name of Islam which mean
surrender is sickening!
The verse 9:4 that talks about
the treaty, orders Muslims to withhold war until the expiry of the treaty
or as 9:5 makes it clear, until the sacred months are passed. This is no
peace but a truce. As we saw in the case of the Jews Muhammad would break
his own treaties at will anytime he felt there is not fear of retribution.
Remember the description of narcissist above?
demanded by Muslims were anything but fair. The Muslim army would demand
its prospect victims to "surrender" to Islam and pay Zikat, or
keep their religion and pay Jizya, which was a higher penalty tax accompanied
with humiliation, or face war. These were the conditions of the
"treaties" such as the one offered to Persia prior to the
invasion of that country. So
much for the "treaty" that you brag about. In the 30s Chicago
was infested by gangsters who would also offer similar
"treaties" to the business owners. They would offer them the
choice of paying the "protection fee" or face retribution.
And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people
(assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His
Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye
repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot
frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject
(Before I begin, I must say that we
must ALWAYS refer to the original Arabic text when using the Quran,
because the translations can be VERY misleading. This translation is a
little off, the correct translation from the Quran would be:
[9:3]A proclamation is herein issued
from GOD and His messenger to all the people on the great day of
pilgrimage, that GOD has disowned the idol worshipers, and so did His
messenger. Thus, if you repent, it would be better for you. But if you
turn away, then know that you can never escape from GOD. Promise those who
disbelieve a painful retribution.)
Who the hell was Muhammad to force people into
believing in a god that they did not want to believe? If Muhammad’s God
was real why he did not kill or oblige the unbelievers into acceptance
himself? Why like a gangster Godfather he sat back and sent his boys to do
his dirty work? This is a clear proof that Allah is not God but the
figment of the imagination of a manipulative sick man: A dictator who used
the belief in God to fool the gullible people of his time and advance his
own grandiose egotistic ambitions.
It take a total idiot or a Muslim to believe that
God, the maker of this vast universe is so pathetic, so petulant, so
desperate to order people to force others into accepting him or kill them
if they refuse. This is insanity! Wake
up humanity! Islam is not a religion. This is a satanic cult! How can a
billion people follow a mentally sick man like Muhammad? What happened to
your brain people? Why can’t you see the obvious?
Why a great god that is the maker of this vast
universe would be so rabid about being worshiped by a bunch of humans who
live in this small planet that is less than a spec of dust when compared
to the galaxy that is holding it and that galaxy is smaller than a drop
when compared to the ocean of this universe?
If still you think that god is so desperate that
would even kill those who do not worship him why he did not do the killing
himself? Wasn’t it easier to warn the people that if they do not believe
in him he would make the earth swallow them? Or send a disease to wipe
them out? Why would he need people to kill people? For the sake of heaven,
this is lunacy! Muhammad was not a prophet. He was a liar! He used
ignorant people to make him powerful, to make him wealthy, to make him
leader, to enable him to sleep with any teenager that he desired. He was a
power hungry narcissist. He had no divine knowledge. Everything he said
proved to be false. He had no divine assistance. He cursed his enemies to
no avail. All he had was a bunch of ignorant fanatical people who like him
lusted after women captured in war, property stolen in war and Muhammad
gave them the green light to pillage, to loot and to rape to their heart
desire and even gave them the assurance that after they die they receive
more of the same in Paradise.
Those men were stupid. They were
ignorant. They were gullible, fanatic easy to fleece. What about you? Are
you stupid? Are you ignorant? Are you gullible?
folks, let us have
a break now! Sit back and click the following link. I have
parked a shuttle 10 billion light years away
from the Earth. Let us get in it. I will find the
milky way in the cosmos. There are over 400 billion galaxies in the
universe. It is easy to get lost. But trust me. You are in good hands.
Then I'll ably spot the position of our Sun. Well I got to tell you folks
that is not easy either. There are over 400 billion suns in just the milky way. Now go
figure! But Capitan Sina knows his way. I bring you down smoothly
to the Earth somewhere in Florida and from there I will take you through a
leave, to a cell, the molecules composing it and down to the
heart of an atom. When we reach there, I sit back and you drive. You can make this trip back and forth several times.
Be my guest; no need to buy a thicket. Take a close
look at the dimension gauge in order to have a better grasp of the size of
this universe. And know that there is no reason to believe that this
is the only universe. There might be billions of universes just like ours.
And when you are making this trip and looking out of the window think and
ask yourself, would really the maker of such universe be so desperate as
Muhammad wants you to believe? Would he really care if you believed in him
or not? Would he really get mad at you and burn you for eternity if you
disbelieved? What kind of idiocy is that? Who do you think you are to make
God so paranoid about you believing in him or not? Don't be ridiculous my
friend, you are not the purpose of the creation! You're just an ape in
this insignificant speck of dust in this immense universe! This
universe is about 15,000,000,000 years old, while our species may not be
more than 100.000 years old. This universe will live on for trillions more
years looooong after our planet and our sun are gone. Stop believing in
the childish fables of the ignorant primitive men.
The arguments presented by Mr. Ghareeb
are repetitions of what I have already discussed several times. It is very
time consuming to answer each and every person when most of what they
write and I write are already discussed elsewhere. I suggest friends who
want to debate to read first the debates that we had with other Muslims
and post their refutations in the forum.
There they can find many scholars, mostly ex-Muslims who can answer their
points, even better than me. These repetitive debates are taking a lot of
my time and I need to concentrate on finishing the book that I have
undertaken to write. So everyone please forgive me if I won't answer your
emails. Please use the forum. Thanks. Dear Ghareeb click on the link
bellow and continue your discussions there.
on this debate
them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame,
help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers,
(Now in order to better understand who
is being referred to here, let us look at the previous Ayat from the
[9:13] Would you not fight people who
violated their treaties, tried to banish the messenger, and they are the
ones who started the war in the first place? Are you afraid of them? GOD
is the One you are supposed to fear, if you are believers.
So with this in mind, the Ayat is now
clear who it is referring to. It is not referring to disbelievers in
general, but infact it is referring to disbelievers (or anyone for that
matter) who breaks a treaty with you.)
ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this
year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque.
(It is a well known fact that for even
muslims, before they can enter any mosque, they must be pure. And if the
pagans are not muslims, then most likely they did not go through the
purification process that muslims go through, so therefore they are not
"Ali Ibn Abi Talib encountered a man called 'Umru and told him, `I
indeed invite you to Islam.' 'Umru said, `I do not need that.' 'Ali said,
Then I call you to fight.' (This was the same policy Muhammad used with
those who rejected his invitation.) 'Umru answered him, `What for my
nephew? By God, I do not like to kill you.' `Ali said, `But, by God, I
love to kill you"' (ibn Hisham, "The Biography of the
Prophet", part 3, p. 113; see also Al Road Al Anf part 3, p. 263).
(Once again taken from Sahih Bukhari,
and im sure you already know my views about Sahih Bukhari. The Biography
of the Prophet was based solely on ahadith from the 6 Sahihs of the
If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never
will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks
of those who have lost (All spiritual good).
(I think the Ayat is clear in what it
means, Allah (SWT) will not accept it from them, but that does not mean
that they cannot chose to follow that religion during this lifetime.
Freedom of religion is there within religion, but Allah (SWT) accepts no
other religion other then Islam. The point is that people STILL have the
freedom to follow which ever religion they chose. And if there religion
says that no one will get to to father except through Jesus, then they may
follow there religion, and continue believing that.)
I will refrain from posting the English
translations of the Quran that you used, and simply post the CORRECT
English translation of the Quran. And furthermore I remind you that when
using the Quran, you should refer to the original Arabic text, because
when it is translated into English, it becomes very confusing, unclear,
and loses its perfection.
Your women are the bearers of your
seed. Thus, you may enjoy this
privilege however you like, so long as
you maintain righteousness. You
shall observe GOD, and know that you
will meet Him. Give good news to
The divorced women shall wait three
menstruations (before marrying
another man). It is not lawful for them
to conceal what GOD creates in
their wombs, if they believe in GOD and
the Last Day. (In case of
pregnancy,) the husband's wishes shall
supersede the wife's wishes, if
he wants to remarry her. The women have
rights, as well as
obligations, equitably. Thus, the man's
wishes prevail (in case of
pregnancy). GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.
The men are made responsible for the
women,** and GOD has endowed them
with certain qualities, and made them
the bread earners. The righteous
women will cheerfully accept this
arrangement, since it is GOD's
commandment, and honor their husbands
during their absence. If you
experience rebellion from the women,
you shall first talk to them,
then (you may use negative incentives
like) deserting them in bed,
then you may (as a last alternative)
hit them. If they obey you, you
are not permitted to transgress against
them. GOD is Most High,
Now I will refrain from commenting on
all individual hadiths mentioned, but I will reassure you that they are
all 100% false. Why? For the reasons I have told you, the majority of them
contradict the Quran, and are not accepted by logic. And like I said
Before, the 6 books of Sahih for Sunnites is blasphemy and innovations.
They are NOT the teachings of Islam. Also, I have a question for you, why
do you refrain from posting the ENTIRE Ayat, and only post a selected
portion from it?
As for the adultery, I will say only
one thing, you have looked at the Sunnite punishment. No where in the
Quran does it say that you shall stone adulterers to death, but instead it
The adulteress and the adulterer you
shall whip each of them a hundred
lashes. Do not be swayed by pity from
carrying out GOD's law, if you
truly believe in GOD and the Last Day.
And let a group of believers
witness their penalty.*
Even in this case, the Shariah ruling
is that the lashes are NOT to be severe, but only symbolic. And if they
repent publicly, they are not to be touched.
As for the translations you gave of the
Ayats given, they are interpretations, and WRONG ONES might I add. Where
it says captives, it is infact speaking of something called Muta. This is
a form of Marriage, and the translators are Sunnite, so they do not
believe in this. They believe Muta was outlawed rightfully by Umar ibn
Khattab, even though it was valid during the time of the Prophet, and it
was mentioned in the Quran.
Contradictions in the Quran
You mentioned in the section,
contradictions in the Quran, a contradiction in how many days the Earth
was created in. But I see no contradiction. In the first Ayat, he told us
that he created The Universe (Al Samawati wal Ard) in 6 periods. Now as is
obvious Sharhe for the Quran, the meaning of Ayam here is NOT days, but
infact periods. So 6 periods of unknown length. This is the Shiite belief,
which is the correct belief. And in the next Ayat, it talks about creating
the Earth and the 7 atmospheres all in 8 days. In this context Ayam means
days. So there is no contradiction.
Also, another contradiction you
mentioned, is what was created first, the Earth or the Sky? Now, there is
infact no contradiction here either. Why? The Quran says that he created
the Earth in 2 days, and then goes on to say he created the 7 skies (known
to be the seven atmospheres) after that. In the next Ayat, Allah (SWT)
says he created the Sky (The Universe) then he created the earth. Now, why
this is so is logical. Before you can store your lunch in your lunch box,
you have to have a lunch box.
Also you mentioned a contradiction in
which you said that how could the prophet speak to the people of Moses
when he came after them. If you read the Ayats again, you will see that it
was infact Moses speaking, then the content changes to a present time and
it tells the people that the Christians and Jews should follow Muhammad (PBUH
&HF) who is mentioned in the Torah and the Bible. So in reality, there
is no contradiction.
One of the contradictions you mentioned
was did Allah (SWT) create everything, or was there more then one. Well
the answer to this is simple, your basing your argument on the 'we
created'. The answer to this is that Allah (SWT) refers to himself with
the royal we. It does not mean that there is 2 people here, it just means
that Allah (SWT) is referring to himself, because of the high respect we
should have for him in the plural tense, hence the royalty. In the French
language, when a person wishes to refer to another person with respect,
when they address them, they say vous (you plural), but not tu (you
singular). This is out of respect, the same rule applies here.
You ask how is it possible for unpure
substances to enter heaven. Well the Ayats mentioned, and the Laws that
apply here on earth, do not apply for the laws of heaven. What is
forbidden here on earth, becomes valid in heaven because the test is over,
and Allah (SWT) has made these things halal. There is no reason for them
to be haram anymore. If you know the characteristics of the life in
heaven, then you will know why.
You asked whether Pharoah drowned or
did not drown. In both cases in the Quran, he drowned, but in the first
mentioned Ayat, he attemtped to submit to Allah (SWT) while he was
drowning, or maybe when the water was coming down. But Allah (SWT) said to
him its too late, now that death is upon you, you want to Submit but you
were evil before. There once again, is no contradiction.
Did Allah (SWT) not read history?
Now, since you made a valid argument on
the time of the building of the Masjid al Aqsa, the only way to dispute
that is to argue by saying that the temple is what was indeed mentioned.
You may ask why is it the farthest then? I will tell you. In Surat Al
Baqara, Allah (SWT) tells us that for some time he changed the Qiblah to
al Masjid Al Aqsa to determine who the real believers were. After that he
returned it to the Masjid Al Haram. Now, taking this into concideration,
Allah (SWT) has made the Masjid Al Aqsa the 2nd Qiblah, therefore making
it the farthest Masjid. Why? We must interpret the meaning of Masjid in
this particular situation. The meaning of Masjid in this particular
situation, because it was not an actual Mosque in itself, and a place of
worship, would HAVE to have meant Qiblah. Because for the muslims to pray
there, it has to have something to do with Islam. Now if it was another
place of worship for the jews, its still concidered a Masjid, or a place
of worship, but no longer a masjid in the sense of a place of worship for
the muslims. Therefore, when Allah (SWT) mentions masjid, he means Qiblah,
and the Qiblah MAKES it a place of worship for the muslims. Now, as for
the hadith you quoted, once again, like I said, Sahih Bukhari and the 6
Sahihs of the Sunnite are full of innovations and blasphemy. So
attributing such a big gap to the Prophet (PBUH &HF) is not a valid
argument, because the hadith in itself is not valid. The Quran was
completed by 11 Hijra, and if it says in the Quran that Allah (SWT)
switched the Qiblah from Masjid Al Haram to Masjid Al Aqsa, within 11
years, how could it have been supposedly built 40 years later. In this
case, like I said before, the hadith is rejected. Why? Because it
contradicts the Quran and not the other way around. The Quran is the main
source of Islam, not hadith. Do not attribute hadith to Quran, because it
does not work like this.
The day of judgement
You mentioned a lot of Ayats in the
Quran that refer to the day of judgement, but the first one that I found
to be an actual attack was the one about the blackening of faces. Once
again, I ask you to look at the arabic text, and read the word that is
said. The translation is bad, the actual word means misery and not
The Earth is Flat?
In this section, you say that the Quran
says that the sun moves, and not the Earth. You mentioned Ayats from the
Quran, which are again in English translation that is incorrect. Here is
the correct translation for the first Ayat.
The sun sets into a specific location,
according to the design of the
Almighty, the Omniscient.
(We see here it speaks about the
sunset, and not the actual motion of the sun itself.)
He created the heavens and the earth
truthfully. He rolls the night
over the day, and rolls the day over
the night.* He committed the sun
and the moon, each running for a finite
period. Absolutely, He is the
Almighty, the Forgiving.
(In this Ayat, Allah (SWT) relates the
moving of the sun and the moon to the rolling of night and day. When he
says finite period, this implies that it is in regards to the rolling of
the day. It once again does not say the Sun and Moon move, and the Earth
is still, it infact is saying that the Sun comes in the day, and the Moon
comes in the night. Thats it!)
Among His proofs is that the heaven and
the earth are standing at His
disposal. Finally, when He calls you
out of the earth, one call, you
will immediately come out.
(As for this Ayat regarding the Earth
not moving, it is not referring to that in any sense. It is referring to
the Earth not falling through space. Hence the word standing. Does not say
standing still. Big difference.)
GOD is the One who holds the heavens
and the earth, lest they vanish.
If anyone else is to hold them, they
will most certainly vanish. He is
(As for that Ayat you mentioned. Well
its obvious what is meant. If they did not 'stand' then they would fall
endlessly through space. That is once again what is being referred to, and
not the Earth not moving.)
[27:61] Never Participated
Who is the One who made the earth
habitable, caused rivers to run
through it, placed on it mountains, and
created a barrier between the
two waters? Is it another god with GOD?
Indeed, most of them do not
(In your English translation it said
fixed adobe. The ACTUAL translation is habitable. So I do not think we
have to argue about that.)
He created the heavens without pillars
that you can see. He
established on earth stabilizers
(mountains) lest it tumbles with you,
and He spread on it all kinds of
creatures. We send down from the sky
water to grow all kinds of beautiful
(Science now tells us that mountains
reach deep into the Earths crust, and indeed do in most cases hold the
Earths crust together, so it does not seperate.)
The One who made the earth habitable
for you, and the sky a structure.
He sends down from the sky water, to
produce all kinds of fruits for
your sustenance. You shall not set up
idols to rival GOD, now that you
(Yours said resting place. Once again
refer to the Arabic text before making such assumptions. The correct word
is habitable and not resting place.)
When he reached the far west, he found
the sun setting in a vast
ocean, and found people there. We said,
"O Zul-Qarnain, you can rule
as you wish; either punish, or be kind
(This Ayat refers to the vision of man.
Zul-Qarnain saw with his eyes the sun setting to the west, and to the west
he found some people there. This has nothing to do with the actual sunset.
Allah (SWT) tells us what Zul-Qarnain saw, and it is a reason for him
going to the west. If he did not see the sun setting to the west, he would
have never went there.)
As for the Hadith you mentioned
regarding the answer of the Prophet, I once again hold that hadith false.
The Prophet (PBUH &HF) is attributed a lot of things. Some of which
are drinking and killing a man. Which is known Blasphemy.
Historical Errors in the Quran
You said that Mary was the sister of
Aaron, I beg to differ.
"O descendant of Aaron, your
father was not a bad man, nor was your
Obviously the word descendant DOES NOT
mean sister. You are making a GRAVE mistake when you interpret the Quran
literally. You are missing the actual meaning of it. When it says Ya ukht
harun, it is referring to the sense that she is his sister in religion,
and his descendant. When they call me Yabna Rasul Allah, that does not
mean I am his direct son, but infact I am only a descendant seperated by
hundred(s) of years. Once again you interpret incorrectly.
As for why her mother was the wife of
Imran, well thats easy, because Imran was her father. Not the father of
Imran of Moses and Aaron, but the father of Mary whos name was also Imran.
If someone really wanted to interpret things in a inaccurate sense, one
could come to any inaccurate and false conclusion, and be justified!
As for your claims about Alexander the
great, they are based on human made and biased opinions of history. Also
these opinions CANNOT be proven valid. Therefore I CHOSE to take the word
of the Quran of that of some bias historian.
As for the golden calf of the people of
Israel, thats easy, just like there have been a lot of men named Abraham
over the existance of time, there was a man named Samaritan. It does not
take rocket science to explain this.
As for Taha Hussein, what is your
point? Saddam is concidered a muslim, be he is no where near that.
Documented in history? And up until now people still believe human beings
came from fish then evolved to apes then evolved to humans. Even though it
has been proven otherwise.
As for your production of the Sura like
it, you may have composed words, but mathematically, you composed nothing.
Compose 1 Sura that is as mathematically complex as 1 Sura in the Quran.
Like I said its very easy to make accusations, back them up, when people
have little knowledge.
As science furthers, it only proves the
validity of Islam. Now, this is it for today, I am looking forward to
reading your replies. Insha Allah (SWT) we can get into more discussion
and debates, and discuss more and more about the Quran.
||The Challenge: Part 2
Sat, 21 Sep
Bismillah Al Rahman Al Raheem
Dear Ali Sina,
I will begin this letter by identifying what it is I will be arguing.
On your site, there is a section entitled "Miracles of Allah".
In it, you state several miracles in which you comment and and attempt
to prove that they are false and not really miracles after all. Now, in
this letter, I will attempt to prove you wrong and show the validity of
these miracles. Now Mr. Sina, I will ask you to please forget about your
views regarding Islam for now, and read my arguments with care, and an
open mind. I believe you will find them to be correct if you do so.
The Cats eye of Nebula
In this section, you have posted a miracle regarding the Cats eye of
Nebula. In it, you argued that the only reason the Cats eye is red, is
because the universe is expanding, and that it is moving away from us so
it appears red. Now, I ask, if this is so, then why does the outer layer
of the Cats eye appear green? And you also argued that it had nothing to
do with us because it is outside of our solar system and we are unable
to see it with the naked eye. Now, I ask you, if we were to leave
everything outside of our solar system, or arent able to see with our
naked eye, then why bother studying and searching for Planets like
Pluto? We can only see them as a star, we cant see the Planet. Also,
like usual, you only pasted the Ayat regarding the Cats eye itself, but
you did not post the Ayat regarding where we can expect to see these
miracles. It is as follows:
We will show them our proofs in the horizons, and
until they realize that this is the truth.* Is your Lord not
sufficient as a witness of all things?
Now, I ask you Mr. Sina, where exactly do we have to look in order to
have witnessed the Cats eye? And Allah (SWT) points out to us where his
miracles can be seen. You disregard the fact that the Cats eye looks SO
MUCH like a Rose indeed. But in your hastiness to claim it
non-miraculous, you overlooked that fact. Now, as is the criterion for
Miracles, it is known that they will be within the laws of Nature. This
Miracle does not break the Law of Nature in any way. So therefore, how
can it not be a miracle? Its amazing how this was mentioned in the Quran
so long ago, and yet still, you find a way to say it is not a Miracle.
You yourself said that we need the strongest telescopes in order to see
it, so how could the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH &HF) have seen it?
The second miracle that you have claimed to be false is that of the
fish that supposedly says Abdullah. Now, I cannot see the 'abd' on the
fish either, so I wont argue with you regarding that. But I do, CLEAR AS
DAY see the word Allah on the fish. If you will read from left to right,
you will see the loop, then 2 lines, a space and another line. Now from
right to left you see a line, a space, 2 lines, and a loop. That word
CLEARLY reads Allah (SWT). As for it being a fluke of nature, I honestly
doubt that it would be so accurate. As for it being a hoax, well I ask
you, are you able to write into the skin of a fish without damaging it?
If so, I would as you to do so, and present proof to me.
As for the second fish, it is clearly the EXACT same fish but turned
180° so its head is facing the left and not the right. The
discoloration shows that it was edited in paint. I dont know if this was
meant to be a mockery or if you are serious, but even an imbossil can
tell that this is a forgery.
Mr. Sina, your arguments is that this is a forgery, now I ask you, if
this was a forgery, why such a stupid forgery like giving the name of
the country. And if you dont know, Germany is home to a lot of Muslims,
and especially a lot of Lebanese, and being in a non-Islamic society,
wouldnt it make sense for Allah (SWT) to put such a miracle where they
can see it. Also, you have never attempted to actually search for this.
If you search for it, I believe that you will find it to be no hoax, yet
infact true. Go to Germany, and ask any Lebanese person about this
place. They will take you. Relatives say it exists, so I believe them.
As for the German government not allowing people to see it. Why wouldnt
they just cut it down? There is ways around everything. Although I did
like your argument, it does not comply with logic.
Mr. Sina, as for your honey comb, I know see that you are trying to
mock it. It is very easy to manipulate pictures in Microsoft paint, but
its not as easy to produce actual photographs, known to be ORIGINAL, and
tested as so, with the same writing of 'Wodan rules'. Such a picture has
been presented, and I accept its authenticity. You are free to do as you
As for this, well all I have to say is you really made NO argument
here and just went on criticizing and criticizing. The more I read your
site, the more I see criticism.
As for the rest of your claims. There is no real argument to back
them up, it is simply criticism, and there is no need to argue
criticism, I will leave that to the readers. Looking forward to reading
||The Challenge: Part 3
Bismillah Al Rahman Al Raheem
Dear Ali Sina,
I will begin my letter by adressing what it is exactly I will be
debating in this Letter. On your website there is a section that is
entitled "Miracle of Muhammad". Now a constant trend I see
in your writings is that you base almost everything on Sunnite
sources, so in this letter, I will attempt to prove to you the
invalidity of these sources among Muslims.
Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 208
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
The people of Mecca asked Allah's Apostle to show them a miracle. So
he showed them the moon split in two halves between which they saw the
- Now to begin with, Muhammad (PBUH &HF) did not perform any
such Miracles, and it is clearly stated that Allah (SWT) stopped
sending Miracles to people after Jesus (AS). Look:
What stopped us from sending the miracles is that the previous
generations have rejected them. For example, we showed Thamoud the
camel, a profound (miracle), but they transgressed against it. We
the miracles only to instill reverence.
Now I ask you if the Quran says that Allah (SWT) stopped sending
Miracles, then how can Islam and Muslims accept this hadith? Thats
because we dont. Like I said in a previous discussion, The Prophet (PBUH
&HF) gave us a way of identifying whether a hadith is Sahih or
not. There were 2 parts, they compare it to the Quran, if it does not
contradict the Quran, then its possibly Sahih. The second test is the
test of logic, can it be accepted logically? If it cannot be accepted
logically, then it is deemed false. So obiously, this hadith is false.
Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 4, Number 170
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
I saw Allah's Apostle when the 'Asr prayer was due and the people
searched for water to perform ablution but they could not find it.
Later on (a pot full of) water for ablution was brought to Allah's
Apostle . He put his hand in that pot and ordered the people to
perform ablution from it. I saw the water springing out from
underneath his fingers till all of them performed the ablution (it was
one of the miracles of the Prophet).
- Now as for this hadith, I will keep it brief. It says the people
searched for water to do abulation and could not find it, but what
does Allah (SWT) say about abulation when you cannot find water?
O you who believe, when you observe the Contact Prayers (Salat),
shall: (1) wash your faces, (2) wash your arms to the elbows, (3)
your heads, and (4) wipe your feet to the ankles. If you were
due to sexual orgasm, you shall bathe. If you are ill, or
or had any digestive excretion (urinary, fecal, or gas), or had
(sexual) contact with the women, and you cannot find water,
observe the dry ablution (Tayammum) by touching clean dry soil,
rubbing your faces and hands. GOD does not wish to make the
difficult for you; He wishes to cleanse you and to perfect His
blessing upon you, that you may be appreciative.
There would have been no need for the Prophet (PBUH &HF) to
create water from his hand for them to do abulation, because they
could have done tayammum. Or abulation using earth. So that just shows
you another fabrication indeed in the books of the Sunnites.
Now, you said: "I do not see Muhammad as a superior human
being for two reasons.
a) Many of Ahadith and verses from Quran, if right, reveal him as
an angry, ruthless, unforgiving, deceitful, and impious man. Acts like
looting merchant caravans, killing those who decide to have their own
faith and not follow him, cursing his enemies, treating women as
second class citizens and calling them deficient in intelligence,
assassinating cowardly his opponents like a common gangster, and many
more acts like these are not precisely spiritual characteristics that
I seek in a man I would like to follow and emulate. His deeds are far
from the deeds of an "honored messenger" as he claimed to be
in Q. 69:40
b) Today's modern Muslims, especially those whose standard of
ethics is colored by western/humanistic precepts of right and wrong
try to distance themselves from those hadithes that depict Muhammad as
a ruthless immoral and unethical gangster. They deny the validity of
those hadithes and all what shows Muhammad in a negative light.
However, if those hadithes and verses are forged, then the whole
validity of Islam crumbles and there is no reason for anyone to
believe in a mythological figure whose real life and words is not
- Mr. Sina, I would like you to present me with the Quranic ayats
that prove that Muhammad is all these things that you have mentioned.
I ask you to refrain from using ahadiths, because like I said,
ahadiths in the books of Sunnites are 20% true in 6 different books
consisting of over 20 volumes. So please present me with the Ayats in
the Quran that say Muhammad is what you have mentioned. I thank you in
The Challenge: Letter #4
Sat, 21 Sep 2002
Bismillah Al Rahman Al Raheem
Dear Ali Sina,
You have on your website, a section regarding contridictions of the
Quran. In this letter, I will attempt to answer each and every
individual contradiction of the Quran, and convince you that
contradictions do NOT exist in the Quran. If you read my arguments
with an open mind, you will believe, but if you chose to keep your
views about Islam, you will never believe, not even if the awaited (AAFS)
himself were to show you.
On your website, you have a section that claims Numerical
contradictions in the Quran. Your first contradiction was in the
creation of the Heavens and the Earth.
Quran 7: 54 Your
gurdian-Lord is Allah who created the heavens and earth in Six Days
(The arabic text for this ayat says 'fi sittat ayam'. Now as it is
well known, Ayam has 2 meanings in Arabic, one is days, and the other
is Arabic. In this particular verse, the word Ayam means periods and
not days. As was translated by our great Imams like Jaafar As-Saddiq
(AS). So the creation of the worlds took place in 6 periods, each of
They challenge you to bring retribution, and GOD never fails to
fulfill His prophecy. A day of your Lord is like a thousand of your
In this Ayat, he says that 1 day in the eyes of our Lord, is like 1
thousand years in human time. Now if a period consists of many days,
you can imagine how long it would take for Allah (SWT) to create the
heavens and the earth. Now, as is known in the Big Bang Theory, and
confirmed in the Quran, that after the giant explosion, the earth took
some time to form into its shape because of the cosmic debris and the
gases. In another Ayat in the Quran, he says he created the Earth in 2
days. Now the days that is being referred to here not the days of
Earth, but the days of the Lord. So 2 days of the lord would equal
2000 years or so. But we know that the formation of worth took longer
then that. Hence the Ayat:
The angels, with their reports, climb to Him in a day that equals
fifty thousand years.
So now we have 2 definitions for the word day as it is used in the
Quran. In the case of the creation of the Earth, it is referring to
the days that the angels climb to him in, so that is 50,000 X 2 =
100,000 years. That seems logical scientifically, concidering that we
do not know the exact amount of time Earth took to form.
The next Ayat, and the proclaimed contradiction you state:
Quran 41: 9 Is
it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two Days ?
Quran 41: 10 He
set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed
blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them
nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS…
Quran 41: 12 So
He completed them (heavens) as seven firmaments in Two days and …
- Now even with these incomplete Ayats, I will still answer you.
Where he says he created the earth in 2 days, he is talking about the
actual formation of the Earth itself, and is referring to the days in
which the angels climb to him. So each day is approxiamately 50,000
- Where is says that he set on earth mountains, in 4 days, he is
talking about the formation of the continents and the creation of the
mountains, and the days referred to here is 'ayam' and it is not
referring to days, but infact it is referring to periods! So in 4
periods of unknown length, Allah (SWT) shaped and molded earth.
- In the third Ayat, where he says he completed the seven
heavens in 2 days, he is not talking about the actual 7 heavens, he is
talking about the 7 atmospheres. Your argument is that cannot be so,
because he says he adorned the lowest Universe with lambs. Now as we
know, the lowest universe would be the level that we live on or
'ground level'. So Allah (SWT) adorned it with lambs (The sun and the
moon), and established the laws. You count 8 days, when infact it
speaks of completely different periods in each ayat, so therefore
there are NO contradictions.
In this part, you mentioned a contradiction of the Quran, that says
that Allah (SWT) says his days are equal to 1000 of our years, and in
another he says that they are equal to 50,000 years. If you look
closely, you will see that in the first ayat:
They challenge you to bring retribution, and GOD never fails to
fulfill His prophecy. A day of your Lord is like a thousand of your
- He specifically says the DAY OF YOUR LORD, and in the next
Ayat he says:
The angels, with their reports, climb to Him in a day that equals
fifty thousand years.
- Here, he says, 'The angels climb to him in a day that equals
fifty thousand years'. He specifically says THE ANGELS climb to
him. So in reality, in the first verse, he is speaking about the
General day, which is equal to 1000 years, and in the second verse he
is speaking about a SPECIFIC day, that is equal to 50,000 years. There
is no contradiction. Its like telling someone that everyday you drink
a glass of milk, but Tuesday the 22nd of March, 1998 you drank 10
glasses of milk. Its very SPECIFIC. So no contradiction occurs.
Creation of the Heaven Earth
In this section, you spoke of a contradiction that said, which came
first, the heaven or the earth. You used the following Ayats to back
up your claim of a contridiction.
Quran 2: 29 It
is He who hath created for you all things that are on Earth; THEN He
turned to the Heaven and made them into seven firmaments (Skies)….
- Here, Allah (SWT) speaks about the creation of Earth, and then he
speaks about the creation of the 7 skies! That are above us. In this
verse, what is meant is the 7 atmospheres and not the 7 universes.
This is clarified by the next verse, that you claim contradicts this
one, when ifact, it supports it.
Quran 79: 27 - 30 Are
you the harder to create, or is the heaven that He built? He raised
the height thereof and ordered it; and He has made dark the night
thereof, and He brought forth the morning thereof. And after that, He
spread (flattened) the earth
- In these Ayats, Allah (SWT) speaks about the creation of the
heaven in the sense of the Universe, and then he created the earth and
spread the ground (land masses (ie: continents)). Once again, this
supports my claim, because logically, one cannot contain the yolk
within the egg shell, without having the eggshell to begin with. So
The Sura 79, because it was revealed BEFORE Sura 2, naturally it is to
be read and concidered before it. But we can thank good ol' Uthmaan
bin Affan for compiling the Quran in the wrong order ! Once again,
there is no contradiction, and I have made it clear why.
As for the Sun set and the Sunrise, and the resting place for the
Sun, I have already answered that in my first letter to you.
Why Allah created Stars
You claim here, based on vague Ayats, that Allah (SWT) created
stars in order to throw them at satans. Let us look at these Ayats and
shed some light on them.
Quran 67: 5 And
We have (from of old) adorned the lowest heaven (sky) with lamps, and
We have made such (Lamps as) missiles to drive away Satans…
- In this Ayat, we see that Allah (SWT) has said that he created
lamps in the lowest heavens to drive away Satans. What is actually
meant by this? Let us examine the Ayat before it and the Ayat after
it, and come to a conclusion.
Look again and again; your eyes will come back stumped and
We adorned the lowest universe with lamps, and guarded its borders
with projectiles against the devils; we prepared for them a
retribution in Hell.
For those who disbelieved in their Lord, the retribution of Gehenna.
What a miserable destiny.
- Now it becomes clear to us what the Quran is talking about. It is
not speaking about missiles it is going to fire at the devils, but
infact, it is speaking about a bounday, that is not surpassible by the
devils. Only the pure souls can pass this boundary. This boundary
exists in the first universe, and the boundary is defined by stars, in
the second universe, there could possibly be no stars. It would be
impossible for human beings to ever reach the end of this universe, to
know what exists in others. So it is not clear what the Quran is
Is the sky a roof
In this part, you claimed that the Quran claimed that the sky was a
roof, when infact, the Quran claimed nothing like this, but it was
only giving reference to the 7 atmospheres that exist on and above
earth. Let us look, and see where you made the fatal mistake of
assumption, but was your mistake an accident?
Quran 21: 32 And
We have made the sky a roof withheld (from them). Yet they turn away
from its portents.
- Now in this particular verse, the translator forget to mention
its function (guarding). It becomes clear what is meant by the sky. It
is a roof, a guarding roof. Now, one will ask themselves what on earth
does that mean? Well when one thinks of the 7 atmospheres on and above
earth, we notice that they protect us from such things like deadly
ultraviolet rays, and meteors and so on and so forth. The atmosphere
destroys or filters these things so that they are not able to affect
the balance of life on earth. That is what is meant by guarding roof.
And it is quite clear from this verse that it is referring to the 7
As for the sun rotating around the Earth, I answered that in my
Is man created from Clotted Blood
You claimed that the Quran said that man is created from Clotted
Blood. Well, of course were not, and thats not what the Quran says at
all. The Quran says:
He created man from an embryo.
No need to argue upon that. Your taking everything as literal,
thats a GRAVE mistake. And I suggest you look at Shiite tafseer for a
change my friend.
Is religion Compulsive
I am going to completely ignore your partial Ayats, and simply post
the truth. In the first Ayat you mentioned:
There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now
distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and
believes in GOD has grasped the strongest bond; one that never
GOD is Hearer, Omniscient.
is clear. There is NO COMPULSION in religion. Now the later Ayats
you pasted were fragments. The entire Ayats, if you dare post them
show that you are only to fight the disbelievers if they fight you, or
if you make peace and the break the peace treaty. There is no need to
show this, because it is CLEARLY shown in my first letter, and you
know, as well as I, what the Ayats you have mentioned are referring
to. It is a very common thing for you to post fragments of Ayats for
your use, and I believe this is because you wish to manipulate the
mind of the reader to believe your accusations. But I know the readers
are smarter then this. I ASK ALL readers to double check all sources
you give, and not be fooled by fragments. Please, lets play clean.
In the end, under your comments section, you claim the Quran is
full of many things: "Comments:
Qur’an is full of inaccuracies, contradictions, inconsistencies,
redundancies, no chronology or chapters, grammatical errors, etc. One
can find hundreds of contradictions/errors/inconsistencies in the Holy
Quran. The above-mentioned Ayats are just selected samples from the
Quran. But still it is a miracle to those who are blindfolded bigots."
- I ask you to present to me these things, so that I may refute
them. You may claim they are on your site, but most of the work on
your site is not even yours. I would like to see them and read them
with YOUR commentary, and with your thoughts. Then I may debate them
and argue for the sake of my beloved Islam.
Mr. Ali Sina,
I have recently sent you 4 e-mails, and asked you to post them on
your site, and told you that it was fine if you took some time to
refute my arguments. This was approxiamately 4 days ago. You said that
you will do, and you have not posted other then the very first e-mail
I sent you. I can understand from this that you do not wish to 'play
Keeping this in mind, I ask you to post the arguments made, and now
that I have reassured myself that you are just playing games, and you
have no serious intent at all, I will withdraw from this childish
challenge you have. The brother named Wissam Nasr has already defeated
you, but you chose not to accept defeat, and you kept your site up.
And so did the brother that was posting in the forum, Mohammad Asadi.
There is no need for me to go on, concider yourself defeated for the
3rd time, and know this: Soon our Mahdi (AAFS) is going to come forth,
and when he does, I suggest you run to the farthest corners of the
Earth. You, and the other Indian man who wrote the Satanic book, are
going to be the first of people that are to be beheaded. Beware of the
wrath, and you know, aswell as I, that Islam is the truth.
Fear Allah (SWT), Mr Ali Sina. It is better for you. Now knowing what
I know, and being who I am, I already know your reply. To it I say,
you imbossil will walk in which ever way you point him. Because of
your hate for Islam, you see arguments that are easily refutable, and
have been refuted, and be refuted even by non-muslims, and you beleive
so much in them. I honestly doubt that you were ever a Muslim, never
the less a Shiite. We are known for our common sense and logic. We are
known for holding the true undisputable Islam.
You debated Shiekh Montazari, but never attempted to come in contact
with Sayyed Muhammad Hussein Fadlallah, or Sayyed Tabatabai, or Imam
Khamenie (HA). One has to wonder why, and the answer to this is
obvious, because they would leave nothing of you in a debate.
I posted all your messages. I
will respond to them when your turn comes. There are a lot of more
important things to do than responding to Muslims who repeat the same
things over and over without even having the mental ability to understand
simple logics. If you think Mr. Nasr and Mr. Asadi have won the debate
then it is obvious that your level of reasoning is not superior to theirs.
I have not read but a few paragraphs of your first message yet but
honestly I do not think your messages require any answers. But since I
promised I will answer them when I get to them.
For now let people read them as
they are proofs in themselves that logic is an alien word to Muslims.