What Islam Really Says About Jesus and his Return

It is sad that you would interpret it that way, "how"do you think Jesus will return, AND what sort of world do you think will be formed with his return?

Islam is unreal. The cross will not destroy christianity because the cross was an instrument that rome used to kill Jesus and it is rotted away.loool. Jesus' Christians never worshipped the cross but Romean god Tammuz was the cross they knew. the Egyptians had a cross and Muslims said pharaoh was a muslims and they had a cross. Many nations had a cross, before and after Jesus. The cross was cursed not worshipped. Constantine had a cross befofe he started Roman Christianity. Jesus has no need to destroy the cross. Muslims followed the gnostics who made the Davinci Codes.

Didnt the muslims get the story of Jesus wrong in the Quran also?

" Constantine had a cross befofe he started Roman Christianity"

Shows what you know about christianity... OH THE IGNORANCE -_-

Anyway...Muslims get alot of things wrong.

Toodles what do you meaN. Constantine started Roman Christianity in 325 CE. The cross constantine had was for the God of Rome called Tammuz, for which he had a dream of conquest. To take contol and keep piece in Rome he made pagan God Tammuz Christ. They were Gnostics created the Davinci Codes. Gnostics were doing this before the apostles all died.

When the Muslims conquered Egypt they had quran 10:90 put into the Quran to get Egyptians to follow Islam. Slicccccccccccck.

CHRSTOPHER LOGAN WROTE: n the view of Muslims, Jesus is coming back as a Muslim and he will break the cross (destroy Christianity) and be a slave to Islam.

ANSWER: What is the cross. Did jesus ever say to christians to have a statue of the cross in the middle of the church and bow down to him. Did jesus ever teach that the cross had any significance to the people that he taught. The cross became only a symbol of chrsitanity after his departure from the world. Jesus didnt even say to worship him, jesus didnt even mention anything about trinity. Not a single verse i nthe bible that mentions trinity and not even a single verse in the bible where jesus said to his people to worship him.

You chrisitans have embarrased jesus in front of god by claiming he is god and seeking salvation through him. And this is what jesus says in the bible to those that seek salvation through him:

Matthew 7:21 – 23

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

He is calling you christians who prophecize in his name and who seek salvation through him as evil doers. That is why we muslims belive he will come to destroy the cross as it is a lying concept.

CHRSTOPHER LOGAN WROTE:Jews and Christians with only two options. To convert to Islam or die.Koran verse 9 29 calls for the extortion of Jew and Christians. (Jizya)009.029

ANSWER: This is utter nonsense talk as the verse you relate to is in the context of a war that has already passed. It is not talking about a future war.

CHRSTOPHER LOGAN WROTE:Muslims believe that Jesus will come back to fight for Islam, not Christianity.

Londo spirtus,

where are the verses that i asked you? Pathetic trend from a muslim, ignoring and running.

Oh yes, Muslim apologists love to play word games.

When their Quran says something like "Slay the infidels wherever you find them", the apologist will say "You infidel idiots, what our all-merciful Allah really means is no, no, don't really slay them as in dead dead. What Allah really means is to kill them with kindness."

We will then be told that we are relying on bad translations of the Quran, deliberately quoting things out of context and to provide the verses before and after.

"when judgment day arrives Jesus will judge the people by the words of the Koran and not of the Holy Bible"
is that means jesus start stoning people to death, choping people hands, proud of men who beat their wifes.

Matthew 7
***15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'***

LS,
its all in the book, Matthew 7:21 – 23, is talking about muslim pigs, who try to prophecize using jesus name, why pedo mo only put jesus name in filthy quran, instead of the teaching of jesus.

so you taking verses out of contex, you only took the bottom part, while jesus talking about false prophet (top part) and try using his name to justify it (bottom part), so away from us, you muslim pig manipulator, evildoers (not necessary directing at you, ls)

ls***You chrisitans have embarrased jesus in front of god by claiming he is god***

we have a bit more brains than the herd of goats, we've been given brains to distinguish between divine and evil, thats why we call some divine figure of divine teaching, a god.

we don't call someone who soliciting sex, promoting underage sex(maried) and orgy, tell follower to retaliate when attacked is a god..., we call them piece of s#it that we don't need to listen to.

who told you allah is god?, is that from you brain's independent thinking, or some goats' herder telling you while he leads you into slaughter house?

hey, whatever God is, have one determination. that is Peace. don't fight. we have own faith. u have yours. so why don't u think of yourself.

as in Al-Qur'an (Al-Kafiroon: 6) :
"To you be your religion, and to me my religion"

the conculsion is , To you be your Way, and to me mine.

we don’t hate Non Islam actually. we tolerance all religion.

and please don’t generalize Islam just by few people.

IBNSAHR WROTE: Its all in the book, Matthew 7:21 – 23, is talking about muslim pigs, who try to prophecize using jesus name, why pedo mo only put jesus name in filthy quran, instead of the teaching of jesus.

so you taking verses out of contex, you only took the bottom part, while jesus talking about false prophet (top part) and try using his name to justify it (bottom part), so away from us, you muslim pig manipulator, evildoers (not necessary directing at you, ls)

ANSWER: Ibnsahr nice try. but you dont even know how to read or understand basic english. I aint quoting out of context, I aint like people on here who quote out of context to suit their needs and motives. Why dont you take some time to read the verse over again.

Yes it is true that from matthew 7: 15-20 jesus is talking about false prophets that will come. Even muhammed spoke about false imposters. But the following verses, which is from 7:21 has the relation to the preceding verses and is completely on a different matter. How do I know this? . Well if you read the begining of the verse, which says

21″Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

You can see from here that jesus is now talking about people who call him lord and in no way is he talking about someone calling thememselves a lord or prophet.

SO IT IS YOU THAT IS TAKING THE VERSE OUT OF CONTEXT. NOT ME. I KNOW HOW TO UNDERSTAND BASIC ENGLISH.

further more even if your trying to relate Matthew 7:15-23 to muhammed and islam, it shows you dont use logic. I know for a fact you know the basics of islam IBNSHAR, so you trying to relate these verses to islam is just plain ignorance. Because if you look and break down mathhew 7:15-21you will see that

17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

Well Muahmmed was known as siddiq and ahmed by his own people and even the makkan tribe.
Muhammed stop the evilness of the tribes of makkah of slaughtering woman to find out the sex of the child, using woman as things, using slaves as they were nothing, drinking and many more arrogant things.

So is Muhammed a bad fruit. NO. Further more the follwoing verses say

22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’***

Well this is a known fact

1. Muslims and jews dont prophecize in jesus name. That is act of christians
2. muslims and jews dont drive out demons in jesus name. Again that is acts of christians.
3. Muslims and jews dont perform miracles in jesus name. Again that is that acts of christians
4. All in all muslims or jews dont seek salvation through jesus. Again that is acts of christians

So using logic, who is jesus reffering to when he will say to those people I never knew you and to get away from him as they are eveil doers.

It wont be muslims, jews, hindus, sikhs or any other religions in the world. It will be but plainly to CHRISITIANS. I AM USING ONLY LOGICAL THINKING HERE. YOU SHOULD TRY IT TOO.

LS,

Ok, but then it says in your own scriptures (books, whatever) that Jesus will judge with the Quran and not the Gospel so if that is true, nothing of anything you just posted means anything at all.

His name is Yeshua. It means "Yahweh saves". Yahweh is God. Figure it out.

this prophibit aka prophetic religions were mocking other religions having numerous gods... but they not able to manage among 3 prophets. interesting.

LS,
firstable, if you understand basic english, you will agree (from 4:34 ".....then you may (as a last alternative) beat them") that satan permited/allowed wife beating?, as how you denied it in previous article.

LS***But the following verses, which is from 7:21 has the relation to the preceding verses and is completely on a different matter***

im sorry, i failed to understand something that has relation, but having completely different matter, unless you using arabic/quran logic, that one verse says "love your neighbours" and right after next verse says "let unbelievers find harshness in you"

forget about lord, what it means by "...but only he who does the will of my Father who is in eaven"
is that someone who beats their wifes, kills people for not believing the father, stoning people to death?
pedo mo is not the fruit, pedo mo is rotten tree, you are the fruits and just like any other retarded moronic muslims.

please tell me, i want to taste you, is beating wife allowed in islam?, stoning people ok, when no justification in islamic book, why they doing it in the name of islam if you say no?

LS***Muhammed stop the evilness of the tribes of makkah of slaughtering woman to find out the sex of the child, using woman as things, using slaves as they were nothing, drinking and many more arrogant things***

quran says your wife is tilth, quran allowed married captive and right hand posses, don't even go to arrogant, other wise your early islamic history will not full with battles and conquers, so who do you try to foool?, where is your logic??, unless you just shamless hypocrite, uttering you words through your rectum.

just like JBM said, what is your point,
where is the teaching of jesus in filthy quran that he will get us accounted for.
what happend to pedo mo?, busy screwing heavenly whores?

LS - here is a site you should read. Father Zakaria Botros has a $60 million bounty on his head from "the religion of peace" for a good reason - muslims are beginning to see what he says is right http://www.fatherzakaria.net/ - there are arabic, english and french pages.

Read this link too - also in many languages. The truth shall set you free.

http://www.bible-koran.com/English/english.html

One other thing. Christianity is about a personal relationship with God - we do not worship a cross. So, no, Jesus would not come to destroy a cross. I would rather pray facing a cross than a black rock that looks like a giant vagina.

This is what God says about other gospels i.e. quran

Galatians 1
No Other Gospel
6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

There is a lot more about the way Jesus is seen by the Islamic culture in the Koran. For instance, altho Mohammed claimed that this revelation of Jesus' life came to him alone, altho its all directly brought in from the INFANTCY GOSPEL OF THOMAS. (Not the gospel of Thomas, which was that sayings gospel from Nag Hammadi.) Then, it goes on about how Jesus, as a boy, fashioned a bird from Clay, and brought it to life. (The way this directly infers socery is apparent, and one of the BIGGEST reason this 3rd century gospel was never seen as anything other than fiction, by ALL the church fathers.) It also says that Jesus asked God to send down a "feast" from heaven, to prove that God was the best provider. Again, this just shows a bizarre reinterpretation of the Last supper, and communion. (This info is at the end of the book called THE TABLE, which table of course being the table of the last supper.) Then, it says that the angel asked Jesus, "Did you ever ask people to worship YOU and YOUR MOTHER as Gods?", and Jesus answers that this is a lie, he did not. Oddly enough, Jesus NEVER asked ANYONE to worship Mary as a God. And dispite what some Protestants believe about the adoration of Mary Mother of God, if you read the NICENE CREED, or the APOSTLES CREED, which is the basic summation of Christian beliefs for the majority of Christians, including Catholics, Orthodox, Episcopalian, Luthern, and many others, Christians believe IN ONE GOD, not two, and MARY IS NOT WORSHIPED OR BELIEVED TO BE GOD! So, here again, the Koran teaches lies, and horrible distortions about Christianity. Just buy an UNEXPULGED version of the Koran, and read it. It also mantains that CHRISTIANS AND JEWS DO NOT BELIEVE IN THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD. Well, the ancient Sadducee Jews didnt believe in the Resurrection, but the rest of us sure do, including all modern jews and Christians. You will find that teaching at the beginning of the book of SHEBA, tho its talked about many times, as is the idea that Christians are not monotheistic, etc. The oddest part of reading THE KORAN, is whats NOT in it. The word "LOVE". I'm serious, the word "LOVE" occurs once in the Koran, in a passage that says you should "love your family". WEll, that's not exactly what Jesus said, when he said to LOVE YOUR ENEMIES, but hey, you have to talk from the level your at. But seriously, nothing about GOD IS LOVE, or LOVE ONE ANOTHER. A lot about going to war and killing the enemy infidile, but not this word LOVE. It says a lot.

by the way, who told this jesus will be back as muslim, where this pedo mo got this idea, if its really something important, why don't allah aka satan tell pedo mo to be written in filthy quran.

Its unbeliveable how I seek one answer from any body on this forum, but instead of any one answering to my question I am given multiple questions and the question I asked is completely avoided and ignored. Ignorant fools answer my question. Who is jesus talking about?

JBM WROTE: Ok, but then it says in your own scriptures (books, whatever) that Jesus will judge with the Quran and not the Gospel so if that is true, nothing of anything you just posted means anything at all.

ANSWER: Mate where is your proof. Before I answer I wanna see verse and chapter number from the quran in relation this. You people have got a habit of taking things out of context.

Ibnsahr mate your completely on a different level. Wife beating has already been discussed on a seperate post and yet your still going on about it. You fail to acknowledge the first two acts that a man must do to before he takes account to last resort, You also fail to acknowedge a seperate verse where it says that men must not treat woman harshly. You also fail to acknowledge in a seperate another seperate verse on how allah is stored compassion and love to the husband and wife. You completely avoid these verses but you pay your full and utter most attention on a section of the verse that says as a last resort you may hit your wife. You even fail to observe the verse that follows after that where it says do not transgress., Which is backed up by a seperate verse whereby allah says he hates the transgressor.

Mate you keep living in your dream world. From Whta i can see and by using logical judgement if people were to use islamic law in regards to the woman, wife beating would be completely abolished.

CHARLIE WROTE: One other thing. Christianity is about a personal relationship with God – we do not worship a cross. So, no, Jesus would not come to destroy a cross. I would rather pray facing a cross than a black rock that looks like a giant vagina.

ANSWER: So which god do you have a personal relationship with. Jesus never even said a single time in the bible that he is god and we should worship him. If he does than I will humbly accept chrstianity. I never said you worshipped a cross, This is what i said

Did jesus ever say to christians to have a statue of the cross in the middle of the church and bow down to him. Did jesus ever teach that the cross had any significance to the people that he taught. The cross became only a symbol of chrsitanity after his departure from the world. Jesus didnt even say to worship him, jesus didnt even mention anything about trinity.

CHARLIE: Father Zakaria Botros has a $60 million bounty on his head from “the religion of peace” for a good reason – muslims are beginning to see what he says is right http://www.fatherzakaria.net/ – there are arabic, english and french pages.

ANSWER: You told me to look into this site. I read two of his articles. 2 faces of islam and another. This man is just the same as any other guy who criticizes islam. HE QUOTES OUT OF CONTEXT. Let me tell you something charlie. Why dont you look at the verse that this guy quoted, read the above and below verse and tell me if what he is uoting has the same meaning of what the quran is actually saying.

LONDONSPIRIT - You just don't want to open your mind to the possibility that mohammed made it all up - that is why you use the out of context excuse. Father Zakaria is trying to help you see that.

This discussion could go on forever so would like you to read two sites which a friend of mine has written to help muslims understand Christianity because you actually have no idea. You are just spoonfed lies to keep you muslim. We do not bow down to a cross - where you get that from I do not know!

http://calculatedrisk.blogtownhall.com/

http://sites.google.com/site/religionofpeaceproject/Home/jesus-the-son-o...

BTW, I, unlike most muslims, have read the quran before you tell me I know nothing about islam.

Finally, have you actually even read Ali Sina's book? You really should.

Ls buddy, i just try to put mirror in front of you when you said you understand basic english

Ls***You fail to acknowledge the first two acts that a man must do to before he takes account to last resort***

im not failed, but you in denial with your imaginary quran, let's say you have 1000 nonsense you have to do before he takes account to last resort(beating), what does "he takes account to last resort" means, is the last resort permissable or prohibit, show me your understanding of this sentence, permitted or not?

Ls***Jesus never even said a single time in the bible that he is god and we should worship him***

thats because we,ve been given brain to distinguish what evildoers and what divine teaching, and judge it by your brain who is the BOSS, not like muslim, happy to be put rope on the face, and been dragging around like camel.
if this so called judge so important, why its not written in filthy quran

Ls***Muslims and jews dont prophecize in jesus name. That is act of christians***

mate, we don't prophecize, jesus has been prophecised long before he came, we christian have to follow his example, not prophecise him. so when you say thats act of christian, thats is wrong

if anything is, your pedo mo, pig manipulator, try to sell jesus name in order to attract follower.

so jesus talking about pedo mo and his muslim pigs whose using his name, but don't know and never follow his teaching. so there you go, F off muslim pigs

To Ann,

FFI told us that the verses you quoted are from the Mecca period, when Muhammad was weak, and that they are considered abrogated by more warlike verses from Medina period by other Muslims, including influential Shariah-schools, or Islamic schools of thought.

And I hope you can look worldwide, not just to your own experience. FFI provides us with plenty of evidence, reports, that Islam oppresses and provokes other religions, in the countries where Islam has majority and power. A lot.

You tolerate all religion? Maybe, but Islam does not tolerate 2-way-conversion. Islam welcomes converts into it, but kills, jails, intimidates converts out of Islam, much like the Mafia. But, into the Mafia a person can go voluntarily. But into Islam a person is put by his/ her parents!

You don't want us to judge Islam by the actions of a "few" Muslims? Well, it seems that FFI points out to a lot more than a "few".

How about judging Islam by what the silent majority does NOT do? Protest against this blatant unjust onesided-conversion behavior among Muslims towards followers of other beliefs.

How about judging Islam because of LACK of Islamic protests against the Iranian Ayatollahs and Revolutionary Guards for instance? Or the Taliban?

Friends here r some intresting videos to watch

.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUH4fu4NheQ&feature=related

.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4QHrDYX9KI&feature=related

.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARQmkbTF7g0&NR=1

.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPNTCzJJwUk&feature=related

CHARLIE WROTE: ou just don’t want to open your mind to the possibility that mohammed made it all up – that is why you use the out of context excuse. Father Zakaria is trying to help you see that.

ANSWER: My eyes are wide open, my brain aint narrow minded. I seriously doubt that an illiterate man who doesnt know how to read or write can make up a book consisting of hundreds of pages that has the best of the best of arabic language.

Why should I take your word on it that muhammed made it up, what proof have you got tha he has done so. And if the so called Father zakaria is quoting out of context I will point it out. And it isnt no lame exuse as it is a real fact. I will just show you from one of his work called the two faces of islam. These are his quote:

After Mohammed moved to Medina in the year 622 AD and his followers grew in strength and number, he became a relentless warrior, intent on spreading his religion by the sword, and this is the message that now lives on. Here is some evidence from Quran of this stage:

1. He claimed that God told him to kill his opponents in Surah Al baqarah (2:191) ‘And slay them wherever ye catch them …’

WRONG: He didnt want to spread the religion by sword. He was living peacefully in medina. if you read the above and below verse and you read in context, which is as follows:

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter... But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful... If they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression" (2:190-193).

From here and in context you would know that the makkans came all out in a war to try and kill the muslims. Due to this attack on the muslims muhammed order to fight those who fight you. Not just fight anyone. This is the key point. Muhammed doesnt say slay all the innocent and the disbelivers. He says slay those that attack you. How can you associate WAR with daily prededings. It makes no sense.

And if you read the rest of the verse following 2:191 you can clearly see the message that if they stop fighting than you must leave them alone and that the only person you fight are the ones that practice oppression. The verse shows beauty not the garbage that you talk of and your father zakaria talks of. According to your FATHER. He says that muhammed wanted to spread the religion because he grew in numbers and became relentless. According the verse full context of the verse, Muhmmad only fought as he was being attacked.

FATHER ZAKARIA WROTE :He claimed that God told him to kill whoever rejects Islam in Surah Al Baqara (2:193) ‘And fight them on until there is no tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Alla …’

ANSWER: LIES AGAIN. I seriously dont know where he came up with this conclusion.

turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter... But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful... If they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression"

Again this time he also added his opinion in, which is wrong. god never said kill those that reject islam. God gave the order to turn them out from where they have turned you out. Even if we agree with what your father said that the order was given to kill those who reject faith, it would contradict with the following verse which says

God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful... If they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression"

God cannot say fight and kill those who reject faith and than immediately after say leave those alone who dont fight. Use logical thinking here CHARLIE. You say you have read the quran, but seems to me you have no understanding of it.

I would go on and on. but this man who you want me to follow just speaks a pack of lies. Why dont you read the quran and compare it to what he says. It is obvious to me that he speaks nonsense, and you dont like islam so your blindly agreeing to his nonsense.

I have read Ali Sinas book, understanding muhammed. Let me tell you the amount of contradictions Ali sina states in that book is unbeliveable. And for your information after reading that book, i asked Ali sina a few questions. And do you know what his response was to me by email.

He literally said not to ask questions and that he wouldnt answer my questions and that if i emailed him again he would put my email i nthe spam box.

CHARLIE WROTE: BTW, I, unlike most muslims, have read the quran before you tell me I know nothing about islam.

ANSWER: Ok you have read the quran. I dont know but I assume you have. Answer me one question. From the following verses what is it relating to and give me your understanding towards it:

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter... But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful... If they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression" (2:190-193).

Use logical answer.

IBNSHAR mate your seriously deluded.

IBNSAHR WROTE: mate, we don’t prophecize, jesus has been prophecised long before he came, we christian have to follow his example, not prophecise him. so when you say thats act of christian, thats is wrong

ANSWER: HAHAHAHAHAHA lol. you dont know how to understand do you. What do you think jesus meant about prophecizing in his name. It doesnt mean that people are going to prophecize the arrival of jesus. It means people will be using his name to prophecize of activities that would be undertaken in the future.

You see i will give an example. If you watch many christian channel on sky, you would see certain people say

I say in the name of jesus that we christians will live happily together and that seeking salvation through jesus will bring goodness into your hearts.

That is what you call prophecizing in jesus name. LOL.

IBNSAHR WROTE: so when you say thats act of christian, thats is wrong

ANSWER: NO ITS NOT WRONG.

IBNSAHR WROTE: if anything is, your pedo mo, pig manipulator, try to sell jesus name in order to attract follower.

ANSWER: Your so pathetic in your answers. Why would muhammed need to sell jesus name in order to attract followers when all the arabs living in makka were pagans, who didnt care to the least who jesus was. And majority of the arabs in medina were jews, who hated jesus and didnt even belive in him. Stop talking out of your ass and get your head out of there.

LS,

My post was quite clear. You either just outright ignored it, or got lost in your own "logic" and went back to the typical tactic of running in circles and pointing to anything and anyone in order to take the focus off of Islam.

Forget about what ANY religion teaches for a moment and answer me this. If Islam teaches peace and justice and mercy and compassion and every other cushy feel good term you can think of then where is the proof?

Show me the proof. Why are so many getting it so wrong as you claim? Dazzle us all with your brilliant "Logic" and "Reason".

Islamic logic and reason are a contradiction in terms. When will you wake up and see that you are getting dumber by the day. That is not meant as an insult, it is a fact. If you don't question and test EVERYTHING and only believe what is written in a book and what your imams and scholars tell you, you retard your own growth as a human being.

JBM WROTE: My post was quite clear. You either just outright ignored it, or got lost in your own “logic” and went back to the typical tactic of running in circles and pointing to anything and anyone in order to take the focus off of Islam.

Forget about what ANY religion teaches for a moment and answer me this. If Islam teaches peace and justice and mercy and compassion and every other cushy feel good term you can think of then where is the proof?

ANSWER: Mate I aint running from anything, as this wasnt your intial question. Your initial post stated the following:

''Ok, but then it says in your own scriptures (books, whatever) that Jesus will judge with the Quran and not the Gospel so if that is true, nothing of anything you just posted means anything at all.''

I asked for proof, of where you got this information from. You havent replied to it yet. Instead you pose another question to me and your saying to me I am using a typical tactic of running in circles. Look at any of the above posts and lets see if you posed any question to me already. I SEE NO QUESTIONS POSED BY YOU TO WHAT YOUR REFFERING TO.

Before I answer your question, i want you to show me proof where it says that jesus will judge using the quran and not the gospel?

LS,

I never claimed it was in the Koran, I said "scriptures (books, whatever)". In other words, wherever Muslims get their ideas about Jesus. You are the one making the claim that Christians have it wrong and that Jesus never claimed to be God. You don't even know where you went wrong to begin with.

Please continue to bang your head on the floor five times a day until your brain stops working altogether. Better yet, do it more, you'll earn more good deeds that way and maybe, just maybe, balance those scales in your favor.

But, LondonSpirit, about your answer to IbnSahr,

The mightiest empire of the world at the time of Muhammad was the Byzantine Empire, extending to the borders of Arabia, having commerce, hiring Arab mercenaries. And Muhammad did travel to Byzantine Syria, in his youth, as did many of the Arabs of Mecca, with whom he was acquainted. Then there is the cousin of his first wife Khadija, who I think was a Nestorian monk, who did have a lot of influence or so we are told. So, there is a lot of logical incentive for Muhammad to try to attract followers from among the Christians, so numerous and present in his life and times.

thank's Demcsi for sharing common understanding the direction of my comment,
LS, you don’t even know where you went wrong to begin with like JBM said.

its just like pedo mo try to attract jews to become muslim pigs, since pedo mo only have partial memory about jews book, he got so embarressed, that he put hatered verses towards jews and christian, there is no other reason, if they have come contact with hindu during that time he will mention god with elephant head too in quran, the stupidity and the falshood is so obvious, can only be made by human thought, such the hate verses

Ls, please tell me, from your own comment
***You fail to acknowledge the first two acts that a man must do to before he takes account to last resort***

you may have 1000 acts preceeding the last resort (beat the wife), but does the last resort permitable? please, simple question yes or no? lets see how you understand basic english.

JBM WROTE: I never claimed it was in the Koran, I said “scriptures (books, whatever)”. In other words, wherever Muslims get their ideas about Jesus. You are the one making the claim that Christians have it wrong and that Jesus never claimed to be God. You don’t even know where you went wrong to begin with.

ANSWER: You should really look thorugh on what you write mate. Cuase it really shows that you lack in your memory. Your exact quote:

''Ok, but then it says in your own scriptures (books, whatever) that Jesus will judge with the Quran and not the Gospel so if that is true, nothing of anything you just posted means anything at all.''

You see the bit where you say your scriptures. Obviously if your saying my scripture, your directing it to the quran, because that is the scripture that muslims follow.

And if you think i went wrong about jesus never claiming to be god. Than prove it. Show me a single verse from the bible where jesus says his god and that we should worship him. If you can do so, like i said i will convert to christianity. I dont belive i am wrong as a matter of fact, i use common sense. If jesus was god he would have wanted everyone in the world to know. but he never ever made that claim. It is you that is making that claim. And he gave a clear warning that you seek salvation from him he wil call you evil doers.

DEMSCI WROTE: The mightiest empire of the world at the time of Muhammad was the Byzantine Empire, extending to the borders of Arabia, having commerce, hiring Arab mercenaries. And Muhammad did travel to Byzantine Syria, in his youth, as did many of the Arabs of Mecca, with whom he was acquainted. Then there is the cousin of his first wife Khadija, who I think was a Nestorian monk, who did have a lot of influence or so we are told. So, there is a lot of logical incentive for Muhammad to try to attract followers from among the Christians, so numerous and present in his life and times.

ANSWER: Ermm demsci he was doing trade in these regions prior to prohethood. After prophethood he stayed mainly within the regions of makkah and medina, which contained if not any christians. So he dwould have no advantage in using jesus to gain followers.

Further more even if i agree with you and IBNSHAR that muslims were using jesus to attract followers THAN WHY WOULD MUHAMMED SAY JESUS IS JUST A PROPHET LIKE HIM AND NOT A GOD. This is the greatest insult a christian would acknowledge. This would start tension. It especially sparked tension when the muslims were fleeing the pagan arabs to abisinya. Whereby jafar said to the king of abisinya that these muslim dont belive in jesus as god. But muhammed promised them that they would have peace from the leader, and that is what happened.

So demsci any sother comments.

Ls
***prove it. Show me a single verse from the bible where jesus says his god and that we should worship him. If you can do so, like i said i will convert to christianity. I dont belive i am wrong as a matter of fact, i use common sense. If jesus was god he would have wanted everyone in the world to know. but he never ever made that claim. It is you that is making that claim***

why would god want to proclaim through out the world that he is the god to worship, thats why they give us a brain to figure it out ourselves, you want to use common sense?, god who promoting and soliciting sex is not god, if you have a sense, thats why you felt into satan's trap despite you have a brain
the concept of islam is wrong, while you given a brain, you choose to be a camel, dragging around the arabian dessert, don't have freedom to use your brain to think outside the square

you don't have to convert to christianity, as long as you leave that filthy cult, become murderless antichrist i don't care. I see you avoiding my question

Ls
***You fail to acknowledge the first two acts that a man must do to before he takes account to last resort***
does the last resort (wife beating) permisable after all??

Ls***WHY WOULD MUHAMMED SAY JESUS IS JUST A PROPHET LIKE HIM AND NOT A GOD***

pedo mo not stupid as muslim pigs, if he said that, that would be the end of him, how much longer you would deny it that quran is pedo mo's wet dreams.

Ls, its your script that comes after us, its been the same the torah and ot of bible for generations, why would it corrupted? when two the same and one only a fraction that similar with the rest filled with sex es and violences?

IBNSAHR let me get to your first point which you think i am avoided, which i have answered twice now but you still cant seem to grasp the concept. Beating wife as the last ocassion. Yes i admit the quran says that, and I am all for it. You see if this law is applied in theory all wife beating would be totally abolished. Let me show to you statistics which i posted i nthe other forum which you compeltely ignored. And let me prove to you again how islam can eliminate wife beating even though this is not the topic.

Wife beating happens becuase of 3 primary reason. 1. ALCOHOL. 2. DRUGS. 3. MALE DOMINANCE AND ANGER.

The main cause due to wife beating is the first one. ALCOHOL, which accounts for a great percentage of wife beating.

1. what does islam say about alcohol. It completely forbids it, this will completely eliminate a great percentage of wife beating. What does chrsitianity say about alcohol. Well according to you, your allowed to drink alcohol.

Second cause is drugs. What does islam say about drugs. Again it completely forbids it. Again if this practice was applied wife beating would again greatly reduce.

Finally male dominance and anger. What does islam say. Islam in the quran tells the man not to treat his wife harshly and not to trangress. What does islam say about the wife, That is should be good and obiedient . Now you might be thinking well the man can say and do anything to his wife and she has to be obidient, seems unfair on the wife. Well this is already answered as Allah says not to transgress as he hates the transgressors and further more allah says that you must not treat your wife harshly.

Further more if an argument does happen, what do men do in the present time. I tell you what they do, they flip out and most hit their wife straight away. What does the quran teach. Well it teaches that you should communicate with your wife, and resolve the matter. If arguments arise after that, than you must neglect her and not give her what she desires and than in final resort than you may hit LIGHTLY.

If the world followed these principles, I CAN PROMISE USING LOGICAL THINKING THAT WIFE BEATING WOULD BE A THING OF THE PAST.

Now lets examine what the bible says ;

Ephesians 5:24-33 (New International Version)

24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

Wow very powerful statement. so i can tell my wife to do anything and she must listen. I can beat her and she still must be obideint.

Yeah I am not deluded its you.

IBNSHAR WROTE: why would god want to proclaim through out the world that he is the god to worship, thats why they give us a brain to figure it out ourselves, you want to use common sense?

ANSWER: Your unbeliveable. Are you reading what your typing. If i go according to your tstupid mentality than wah twas the point in sending moses, adam, aron, noah and many more. They all came for one reason, to establish that there is only one god.

You are literally stupid. Than what was the point of jesus coming down to this earth. Whta was the point of him teaching that there is only one god. What was the purpose according to you, in him getting crucified. The people didnt seem to understand then that he was god.

Rather the creatures that god created killed god. Does that make any sense to you. Jesus almighty got killed by his own creation. Sound stupid to me.

My understanding is that the last day is imminent and most muslims will get a terrible shock to discover their leader is not who he claims but a lying terrorist who belongs to satan not God. On top of that due to the evil of Islam and its followers most muslims will be finished for ever on the last day.
So that is the price for relegating Jesus to the religion of satan.

LS,

In your current tactic you are correct, Jesus never bluntly just comes right out and flatly states He's God. He never walked around and said "Hey folks, I'm God. Worship me!" If having someone make that statement is all you need to believe, then you should stay off the internet before you encounter someone who tells you that. Or to put it in a way that might make sense in your "logic", He never flatly denied he was God either. But that is a stupid argument as well.

God wants us to use our minds. We were not put here to blindly follow orders. You find out all you need to know by reading the Torah and the Gospels. It spells it out quite clearly if you actually use that lump inside your head.. The Dead Sea Scrolls back it all up and those were found by a Muslim so say bye bye to the corrupted bible argument.

If you had read any of the links Charlie gave you, you would have at least known well enough to leave this argument alone. The Bible isn't a book that tells you how to regulate every aspect of your life. It doesn't tell you "Believe this or else because I say so!". It doesn't tell you in what way you should wipe your ass. It doesn't demean you in that way.

I'm not trying to convert you. I don't care what you believe so long as your beliefs produce sane, functioning people who can live in peace with others. Unfortunately, Islam can't seem to do that. Feel free to come back and set us all straight after you get done beating your nearest female.

Look, LondonSpirit, about why Muhammad promoted Jesus as prophet; to me this is not such an essential point to score. You could be right. I am really not sure. I don’t have to win.

The point is that it was very reasonable to make this point by IbnSahr and me and it has been made here in FFI-articles before. This is the sort of thing Ibn Kammuna knows a lot about. And ridicule is not a very good argument, I am sure you agree.

Muhammad did use a lot of names of other prophets, like Adam, Abraham, Moses, others, so logically he also used Jesus (a very big fish) I suppose. And as I don’t believe God had anything to do with, yes, it probably was to promote Islam. I think this is what many would-be-prophets do, they latch on to older holy books and persons. Jim Jones and David Koresh, Baha’ullah, Ghulam Ahmed, they all did claim to augment the teachings of earlier prophets and holy books.

It is not sure whether or not there lived Christians in Mecca, Madinah. Or that Christianity was not known or discussed. Christianity and debating it wasn’t forbidden either, was it?

And of course Muhammad did not make Jesus a God and himself only a prophet, that would have made him 2nd to Jesus, but he wanted to be known as the last and greatest prophet.

By the way, LondonSpirit,

about a totally unrelated subject, an update.

The shoe-thrower at Bush gets soon to be released because of good conduct. He got 3 years verdict, but it was commuted to 1 year, and not even that will he get now. Now consider that if this man had done this to Saddam Hussein, he would have been heavily tortured and surely killed. I hope you see the progress Iraq has made in this respect, I hope you see the difference in reaction between Saddam and Bush & Maliki.

JBM WROTE: In your current tactic you are correct, Jesus never bluntly just comes right out and flatly states He’s God. He never walked around and said “Hey folks, I’m God. Worship me!” If having someone make that statement is all you need to believe, then you should stay off the internet before you encounter someone who tells you that. Or to put it in a way that might make sense in your “logic”, He never flatly denied he was God either. But that is a stupid argument as well.

ANSWER: Wait a minute, lets not get to hasty here and skip the subject on what we were discussing before, without you giving an answer. Where does it say in the quran that jesus will judge according to the quran. I want to know this?. In regards to jesus claiming God. I never ever said that I expect him to go around the neighbours and say to evry random person that he is god and that we should worship him. But what I do expect is a single consie messgae in the bible itself, where jesus himself says that he is god and that worship should me made to him. Considering this is the message he came to deliver to his people I do expect to read it at least once. Him not saying it at all gives me an indication that he isnt god. I am Using pure logic now. For some one who say the following:

Matthew 7:21 – 23

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

What does this say to me. That we shouldnt propehecize or seek salvation through jesus name as he will call us one of the evil doers.

I mean jesus never claimed to be the son of god. Nowhere in the bible does it say jesus is the son of god. But astonishingly it says the following:

The many Sons of God in the Bible:
1. Luke 3:38 "...Adam which was the Son of God."
2. Genesis 6:2 &4 "That the sons of God saw the daughters of men...and when the sons of God came in unto
the daughters of men..."
3. Exodus 4:22 "Israel is my son even my first born."
4. Romans 8:14 "For as many as are led by the spirit of God are called sons of God,"
5. Matthew 5:9 "Blessed are the peace-makers for they shall be called sons of God."

So whole of human kind is reffered to as son of god, but JESUS NOT REFFERED TO AS SON OF GOD EVEN ONCE?. How amusing.

He even says in the bible that he has no authority, he can do nothing without the power of god. He says

I cast out devils with the finger of god.
But if I drive out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come to you.

There are many more verses like this in the bible, where jesus clearly himself says he has no authority.

So to summarise. He says we shouldnt seek salvation through him, he is not mentioned in the bible as son of god even though the rest of the creation is, he has no power to do any thing and that he calles the person who gives him power GOD.

What does that tell me using simple logic. THAT HE IS NOT GOD.

Lets see if logic works if I have your mentality.

Jesus is god but tells people not to seek salvation through him, jesus is the son of god, but preference is giving to the rest of mankind, jesus is the son of god or god but he cant do nothing, jesus is the creator but he is killed by his creation.

Makes no sense to me. Just keep deluding yourself mate.

LS,

I answered that first question already. Look back in the thread. As for the rest of it, all I can leave after another astounding display of Muslim logic is this

Isaiah 44:18 (New International Version)
18 They know nothing, they understand nothing;
their eyes are plastered over so they cannot see,
and their minds closed so they cannot understand.

and

Romans 11:8 (New International Version)
8as it is written:
"God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes so that they could not see
and ears so that they could not hear,
to this very day."

I wish you peace.

Ls,
i just want to know where you stand on the subject instead of rising another issue like booze n drugs with has nothing to do with question (i read before), thank you for being honest and straight forward by saying ***Yes i admit the quran says that, and I am all for it***, thank you for letting me hear it from you as muslim, that wive beating PERMITTED in islam, apparently you understand basic english, but there is another word for "Hit LIGHTLY" = CARESS

reading bible with your brain, you can not take it literally, show me in bible that says 'you may hit her'

mate, you just like what it said in your surah, you have eyes but you dont see.
Ls***If arguments arise after that, than you must neglect her and not give her what she desir***
allah is a thug, extorsionist, why allah need 2 back up plans instead of one wisdom words with no sword

doesn't it sound like common advice that we always hear out of human conversation, talk to them first, then try to distance then punch in the head

the purpose of sending moses, adam, aron, noah and many are part of prophesy, that culminate with the born of jesus

the point of jesus coming down to this earth, is to show us, god is in every ones heart, someone can become like god if they can battle their earthly inner thought. him getting crucified, is lesson need to be leart from every angle, it teach you suffering, sacreficing, especially if you want to obedient to god
Jesus almighty got killed by his own creatio, it was written down before he was born, it just to fullfiled the book

whats wrong with islam is they look at it as something physical, like virgin in heaven, they approche is not spiritualy

Ls***But what I do expect is a single consie messgae in the bible itself, where jesus himself says that he is god and that worship should me made to him***

in the bibel, the god itself said, 'here's my beloved son, listen to him', and he said, no one will get to know father if its not through me.', something like that
on the last supper, he breaks the bread and asked for remembering him, he has more authority when he speaks than muhamed

Matthew 7:21 – 23
'but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven'
what is the will? listen to him, act like him, humble, patience, forgiving etc,

we not prophecize, we do god will, on the other hand islam only using jesus name, but never listen to him, other wise, you never cast a stone first, as you all sinner (including me)
so, who prophecizes and who does god will

LS - Jesus accepted worship from men. He forgave sins. Was he a prophet or a blasphemer? If you say the injeel has been changed or contains lies prove the Quran says the injeel is changed or contains lies (the Quran tells Christians to stand by the injeel and to check out the truth of Quranic revelations against what the injeel says.
Allah invited widesread rejection of his claims by that careless revelation.

pedo mo came out with different srtategic, after being humiliated by jew by quoting the lineage prophethood, he know using his partial memory of previous books not gonna get him anywhere, and came out with something out of the blue, jesus will comeback as muslim
well, assalamwalaikum.LOL

if its so important why doesn't it written in quran?

"Jesus accepted worship from men. He forgave sins. Was he a prophet or a blasphemer?"

According to the jews he was a blasphemer, that's why they wanted to kill him.

Ibnshar,

Jesus was a spiritual person and had a happy childhood, that's why according to him, the heaven is spiritual realm and the family bond or friendship between human will vanish.

On the contrary, Pedo mo was a worldly and lustfull person, and had a bad childhood, that's why according to him, the heaven is a material realm and has virgins ready to be used anytime. The family bond remain the same (pedo mo's dream to have a happy family).