Understanding the Thinking of Leftists
Submitted by Ali Sina on Tue, 06/02/2009 - 06:24
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PDF versionThis article is a question posed to Dr. Pete Rottier, who in our previous debate claimed that my accusations against Muhammad are baseless.
Dear Dr. Rottier,
It was a pleasure to debate with you and thank you for participating in the comments section and answering our readers. The last message you posted raised several questions. Because of their importance I am opening a new page. You wrote,
“I never attempted to defend the indefensible–namely terrorism.”
I don’t think we are on the same page yet. FFI is not blaming terrorism. Terrorism is just the tactic the jihadis use to promote Islam. We are blaming Islam.
The Nazis used Blitzkrieg. Blitzkrieg was only a war tactic and not the enemy. It is foolish to blame the tactic of the enemy and not blame the enemy. Likewise, it is foolhardy to blame terrorism and radical Islam and overlook the role of the ideology that is causing them.
If you still think the problem is Wahhabims, radical Islam, and terrorism, you confuse the symptom with the disease. We are against Islam, the religion of Muhammad. It is Islam that is behind all these terrorisms. We want to eradicate the disease, while you are focused on the symptom.
You wrote:
“in some periods of history the leaders of Islamic states used Islam to advocate expansion.”
That is because Islam was created as a tool for expansion and political power. Unlike other religions that focus on individual, his spirituality and salvation, Islam focuses on world domination. It’s a perfect ideology for anyone who wishes to manipulate the gullible masses and make them do his biddings.
Hitler admired Islam for this very reason. This is what he said, “You see, it’s been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn’t we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness….”5 (A. Speer, Inside the Third Reich, pp. 142-143)
You wrote:
“Someone asked if I saw the Qur’an as a primary source–no. It could be with some historical projects but I am a historian of modern Central Asia. I use the Qur’an and Hadith only as far as the Muslim’s of this region, both reformers and ‘fundamentalists’ use these sources of the faith.”
How you perceive the Quran is irrelevant. The Quran is recognized by Muslims as the verbatim word of God. Therefore, it accepts no alterations.
You wrote:
The number one concern for reformers was to ‘correct’ the misinterpretation of the Qur’an and Hadith. They argued vehemently that veiling women, ignoring science, having a narrow, useless educational system were all really against the ‘true’ Islam. Their goal was modernization of their society.”
They can argue until the cows come home. Islam is very clear on all these subjects and there is no room for interpretation and reformation. Once one accepts the divinity of the Quran, one is obliged to submit to radical Muslims because they are the ones who have the Quran on their side.
You wrote:
“Islam and Muslims have always needed to adapt, just as other religions have.”
Yes, but they couldn’t and they can never do it because the Quran does not allow any adaptation. No amount of wishful thinking can change that. Even though a few delusional Muslim reformer wannabes say that they are going to do it, they are only pulling wool over the eyes of the gullible westerners. They know they are lying and the entire Muslim world derides at them too. The reformers of Islam are attention seekers. There can be no reform in Islam, in the way the westerners understand it. Islam has had already its reform and it is called Wahhabism.
You wrote:
“The fact that groups still use Islam to justify violence and immoral behavior is not a stain on Islam itself, but on those who commit these deeds.”
How come? If one’s holy book says slay the unbelievers, Jews are pigs, Christians are najis, don’t befriend them, they are worse than animals, God despises them, and they are fuel for hell, etc., how can one blame that believer who follows these teachings to the letter? It’s hypocrisy to tell someone, your religion is fine, but if you practice is then you are a terrorist.
You wrote:
“My one warning was to be careful of painting all Muslims with the same brush.”
Do you really think you have a better grasp of the problem than us? You seem to keep forgetting that you are talking to ex-Muslims and a large part of our kin is still Muslims. Don’t try to be more Catholic than the Pope, or in this case, more concerned about our people than us. That pretense sounds phony.
We are not blaming the Muslims for anything, except ignorance. We are blaming Islam. Our enemy is this evil ideology not its followers whom we see as its main victims.
We are fully aware of the tireless struggle of our people throughout these 1400 years for democracy, reform, rationality and modernity. Why none of these efforts succeeded? It’s because Islam does not allow any change. In the long run all reforms fail. There is no basis for freedom and democracy in Islamic thinking. Islam and democracy are mutually exclusive. As long as Muslims believe in Islam, there can be no reform. Every attempt to reform Islam has and will fail.
What surprises me is that you see nothing wrong with what Voltaire, Thomas Paine, and all the philosophers of enlightenment said about Christianity, but you do not want anyone to say the same about Islam. I do not understand this mentality.
Why the leftists welcome any criticism of Christianity, but they cannot tolerate criticism of Islam that is a thousand times worse? Why they defend the Islamists and want them have all the freedom to promote their doctrine of hate, under the guise of multiculturalism, (as if Islam is a culture) but they cannot tolerate the ex-Muslims to criticize it?
I don’t think we even came close to understand each other. I do not understand what makes the leftists tick and what to make of their double standards in regards to Islam. Why you keep telling us we should not paint all the Muslims with the same brush and do not accept our word when we say we are against Islam and not the Muslims?
We explained our position clearly. We are against Islam for the same reason that we are against Nazism, communism or any nefarious doctrine that is based on hate. Sigmund Freud wrote, “It is always possible to bind together a considerable number of people in love, so long as there are other people left over to receive the manifestations of their aggressiveness” (Civilization and Its Discontents).
We do not see any line dividing mankind. We’re all one people and we are not going to listen to charlatans like Marx, Hitter and Muhammad to sunder us and to instill hatred in us.
We do not oppose Islam because it claims to be a religion. We oppose it because it is divisive and evil. Now I would like you to explain why you think criticizing a doctrine, whether good or evil, should not be allowed? The leftists have no problem criticizing Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, or any religion. Why they have no tolerance for the criticism of Islam?
The leftists are right-brain thinkers. As the result it is very difficult to establish a coherent dialogue with them. You have a PhD and are a university lecturer. You are the right person to talk to. I am sure you will be able to answer my questions rationally and without resorting to logical fallacies. I have a simple unanswered question. Why the lefties and the liberals welcome criticism of any faith, but get hot under their collar when someone criticizes Islam, and then attack that person accusing him/her of racism, intolerance, xenophobia, Islamophobia and what not?
Could it be that Bertrand Russell was right when he said there are similarities between Islam and bolshevism because both are totalitarian?
In The Practice and Theory of Bolshevism, published in 1920, Russell wrote,
“Bolshevism combines the characteristics of the French Revolution with those of the rise of Islam….Marx has taught that Communism is fatally predestined to come about; this produces a state of mind not unlike that of the early successors of Mahommet….Among religions, Bolshevism is to be reckoned with Mohammedanism rather than with Christianity and Buddhism. Christianity and Buddhism are primarily personal religions, with mystical doctrines and a love of contemplation. Mohammedanism and Bolshevism are practical, social, unspiritual, concerned to win the empire of this world”.
Is this not the reason for this inexplicable love affair between these two strange bedfellows? In their lifestyle, the liberals and the Muslims could not be farther apart. You love free sex, accept homosexuality, allegedly promote equality between genders, etc., while Islam stones adulterers and gays and regards women as chattel. As a matter of fact, once Muslims come to power, the very first people they will slay will be people like you. Only after they are done with you they will go after the followers of other faiths. Despite that, lefties and Muslims are bedfellows. The leftists of all variations, from International socialists (communists) to national socialists (Nazis) to the run of the mill socialists and liberals, like the Democrats in USA, the NDPs in Canada, and the Labours in UK, including the feminists, always back the Muslims.
There are many sites that attack Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, even the peaceful Bahai Faith, but you did not go there to stop them. You came here to defend the rag headed zombies and tell us why we should shut up and not offend the terrorists and other brain damaged Muslims. Why Pete? Was Russell right? Is it because in Muslims, the leftists see a reflection of their own image – another totalitarian fascistic group that hates the Jews and tries to divide mankind?
Yes, I know that many Jews are leftists. Who said all the Jews are smart? I do not believe in a super race and I know stupid people exist among all the races.
I have bad news for you. Ask the Iranian leftists who supported the Islamists during their revolution and see what they got out of that deal. Ask Maryam Namazi who is a commie what deal her group got after they helped Khomeini to power. Ms. Namazi is no longer under any delusion. She is now an ardent anti Islam activist. Maybe her experience as a comrade can bring some sense to American leftists.
I look forward to your response. This subject is important. It has baffled all of us conservatives, rationalists and left-brain thinkers. As a conservative, my brain is not structured the way the brain of an ideologue is. We conservatives have no ideology. The brain of an ideologue is already formed. It is structured and molded. The brain of a conservative is not. The difference can be likened to that of a solid and a liquid. Liquid follows the gravity. It’s fluid and can take any shape. Solids do not change form.
For example, if someone proposes something, I ponder on it and ask: Does it make sense? Does it work? Is it good? Can I and others benefit from it? Then, based on the answers, I decide whether I would adopt that proposition or not.
An ideologue thinks very differently. He thinks in accordance with his ideology. When faced with a dilemma, he asks: What my prophet, my guru, my leader, or my party says about this? Does it conform to the party line and/or my religion or it doesn’t? An ideologue does not make any value judgment. He wants to know to what extent this new idea conforms to his ideology. Instead of thinking, he consults his book of guidance for answers.
Erroneously the lefties call themselves 'freethinkers.' Nothing can be further from the truth. Denouncing religion, they have only changed their ideology, but they are not freethinkers.
You probably would argue that most Christians are conservatives. Good for them! At least in this case they are on the right side. As a matter of fact in one of my articles, The Illusion of Reformation in Islam I argued that it was the Christian reformation and its idea that Jesus had come to set man free that cultivated the seed of enlightenment, and gave rise to the notion of individual freedom, political freedom, and economic freedom.
Here is the irony. While Christianity is an ideology, the root of freethinking and therefore democracy is to be found in the discourse of liberation proposed by its reformers. Freethinking is the fruition of Christian reformation and not of Marxism as the leftists would have you believe. Leftist mentality is a rigid mentality that has nothing to do with freethinking. Conservative thinking is thinking without an ideology. It's the natural way of thinking.
Now back to my question. Is there any truth to what Russell said? If not how can you explain the disinterest of the feminists in the plight of the women in Islamic countries? How can you explain the lack of interest of the Amnesty International, an organization dominated by leftists, to which you belong, in the rights of the minorities and apostates in Islamic countries, and why the same organization is so concerned about how America treats the terrorists who plot to kill her citizens by thousands?
How do you explain these disparaging priorities? Why the leftists exercise this much double standards and duplicity when it comes to human rights? Why do they wreak havoc if a Muslim is denied to disregard the rules of the company where she works and decides to wear her veil of shame to thumb her nose at us, or stop in the middle of the work to pray, or refuse to serve alcohol in the restaurant that she works, but they are silent when Muslims burn churches in Islamic countries and kill Christians, Hindus and apostates? Why do you defend the Muslims to use tax funded universities and other public institutions for their payers, and decry schools that say Christian prayer? Why Amnesty International, civil libertarians, and other leftie and liberal dominated organizations don’t make a squeak when Islamic countries abuse the basic human rights of non-Muslims in their midst?
These are important questions that we the conservatives, who care more about human rights than an ideology, have been asking for eons. I am glad we have you here to answer these thorny questions.
Good to see Ali writing so
Good to see Ali writing so vociferously after such a long time. Its always a pleasure to read Ali Sina's writeup.
Mr. Pete Rottier in the
Mr. Pete Rottier in the previous debate had stated
#17. prottier Says:Neither is possible since the way Sina reads the sources is so abstract that they only Muslims I know that read it in this way are the fanatical terrorists who have been condemned in their home countries.
Here Mr. Pete agrees that Mr. Ali Sina has (rightly) pointed out what drives islamic terrorism.
But in his next post he contradicts himself:
#77. prottier Says: Even most terrorist do not interpret the Qur’an to mean that they must kill or convert non-Muslims.
I asked him on what basis did he reach this conclusion, there was no reply from him. Kindly note the justifications given by the terrorists are koranic ayas, see any of al qaida or bin laden videos.
--
A professor of islamic history of Central Asia, accepts islamic terrorism is a problem, but does not wishes to see the root of the problem, refuses to connect the dots and wants us to do the same. He wants us to blame the individual islamic terrorist, but not islam, even though the terrorist himself quotes the koran, holds the koran with an assualt rifle. How dumb does he wants us to be? and WHY?
Ali, I agree with most of
Ali, I agree with most of your views except your view on linking free thinking with Jesus/Christianity. Tell me, free thinking has always been in Indian, Iranian, Greek and other civilizations---long before the advent of Christianity. Vatsayana was never stoned or grilled to death for writing "KAMASUTRA". Likewise, India is the only country on earth where several religions have coexisted for more than 2500 yrs. The arrival of Christianity and Islam have brought so much confusion by creating US vs THEM philosophy. OTOH, if you had said the arrival of Jesus renewed free-thinking in the already deprived western society (yes because of Old testament and Talmud), I would have agreed wholeheartedly. Finally, free thinking in the western society started with the separation of the Church from the State. Until then, Europe was in dark ages!
In India the hinduism has
In India the hinduism has never interfered with the affairs of the state.The concept of secularism ( separation of state from chruch and mosque)is only applicable to the two evil systems as both these evils actively want to be the state and propogate the evil.In case of christianity , many smart people realised the evil of christianity and refused to give in, so the statement " give un to lord what belongs to him" came and in caes of the eviler stinky poo islam, the state and religion, people all have been stinky pooh of islam as there is no difference.But the bandic (h)oots in India have been propogating secularism at the drop of a hat.The hammer they ( the c(h) oots have been using to beat the hindus is this secularism.As a secular hindu, if a moslem c(h ) oot or the christian c(h)oot kills you, accept it and be a secular stiff corpse. Do not even think of attacking these cahoots even in self defense.
Muslim in india are
Muslim in india are minorities but they can create chaos and bloodshed to the majorities. I wonder why?
Excellent!Fantastic argument!
Excellent!Fantastic argument! First time since becoming visitor to this site i am seeing ali sina in 20-20 mould. Generally in marketing thump rule any product that is imposed or thrusted upon the consumers will have only initial patronage but sustaining has never been achieved. similarly islam seems to be more of compulsion based rather than conviction based and hence withering. In india why hinduism survives for so many 1000s of years. it is simple. it is preached for acceptance to conduct one's life and has no doctrine for the state. it is self governance. either take it leave it type. every hindu do not practice the rituals till he reaches around 40-45 years and suddenly he realises that whatever he achieves is due to the blessings of some force beyond him as only he knows how much he is capable of and whether he deserves the praise. he cannot display it to others but consciously he displays it by adopting to in-house and confidential rituals. this does not affect the society but the religion flourishes and is saved from demise. this enables him to choose his ruler to his demands of life rather than fulfillment of religious fanaticism. the vote bank politics is the spoiler in India but still the average indian whether hindu, muslim, christian or sikh or buddist still firmly beleive in democracy which is evident in the recent election. it is up to the politicians to utilise the maturity of Indian voters and keep the appeasement approaches aside and concentrate on holistic development to be an example of true secularist state.
good question to ask
good question to ask
Sina, evil has got the
Sina, evil has got the tendency to masquarade itseslf in various forms. And know also that evil exist everywhere, it is a spirit with personal attributes. The form of evil you will find in muslim countries, is quite different to that that you'll find in America or Europe or Far East, India or Africa.
While in less developed countries you'll find evil in the form of dictatorships, injustices, corruption, poverty and ignorance, apparently, America and Europe are highly developed civilizations which emerged out of these dark and barbaric middle ages and so evil must also evolve to keep on track. This time round it is disguised as a multicultural ideology, rejecting conservative Christianity as an archaic one, hating jews and loving all forms of despicable acts such as sodomy, abortions and God rejection. This form of evil is utilizing all available tools to smoothen the hearts of social, political and cultural elites of western society through noble missions of UN such as human rights in their attempt to hide their true identity, but it doesn't take long to understand their true colour when they pander on Hamas and Talibans and kissing the rings of Saudi Monarchies.
Pete Rottier is a teacher by
Pete Rottier is a teacher by profession and it makes me more than just a little bit uneasy that he is in a position to mold students, obfuscating and generally doing a great disservice to his own, at a time when the very people who should be learning, of the clear and present dangers of Islamism, its adherents, its goals and its nefarious ways of achieving these goals, gets whitewashed in a multiculturalist fog.
I know encomium is a
I know encomium is a corrosive thing but I must congratulate you Ali Sina. A brilliant exposition. I did not know this about Bertrand Russell. It validates his genius and prescience. It is not news about leftists. Before Hitler invaded Russia, these leftists were pro-Germany, pro their racism, their aggression and expansion. Now that Hitler is gone, they resort to their totalitarian mould.
Leftists are just as lobotomized as islamists. Let me presume to enlighted you Ali Sina as repayment. You want stupid Jews? There are plenty. They fill the ranks of the Israeli labour/kadimah parties. Here's Jewish egregiousness. Find Trotsky's 'speech' to the XIIIth Party Congress. There you will see what ideological ingratiation is and what it means. 'The party is always right - even when it is wrong'. Be well and more power to you! Remember this biblical phrase as I do: 'The world passeth, but he that doeth the will of God abideth forever' !!
See how leftists and
See how leftists and islamists are two sides of the same coin,
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026378.php#respond
I do not want to disparage
I do not want to disparage Pete Rottier but the reason why he defends Islam I believe has more to do with ego than anything else.
He has spent a considerable portion of his life studying modern Islamic history when such a topic could easily nowadays be better described as 'the bastard child' of a vicious cult.
Nobody wants to think that they have spent their life's work dedicated to such a thing. To try and put a gloss on it is actually an insult to alot of the ex-Muslims on this forum.
I'm a Westerner but I feel alot of Westerner's are too proud to admit when they are wrong and that their view of Islam could be mistaken.
I have the utmost respect for the ex-Muslims, particularly those who were very devout, that have had the guts to admit they were wrong about Islam and have moved on with their lives.
I wish I could say the same for some of my fellow Westerners.
To get to know oneself is the most important thing we can do in life. Perhaps even more important than knowing God.
Three cheers for all the ex-Muslims on this forum.
[...] the rest here:
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A professor who claimed Ali
A professor who claimed Ali Sina's initial response as juvenile is very juvenile in his understanding of Islam. He claimed that he lived in an Islamic country. Wow...I am impressed that he lived in one of the CAR states? In CAR an Islam neutered under communism is slowly creeping back to regain its place. Hey prof, this is the region that gave the world such savages as Tumur-ilan and other savages who ravaged, looted and plundered from Afghanistan to India.
Thank you for starting a new
Thank you for starting a new thread on the many questions that Dr. Rottier has left unanswered in the previous exchange, and for answering them yourself. It should make it easier for him should he wish to re-engage. For me the unanswered questions are: What is Islam? Where are its teachings to be found? What mind-set and behaviour does it encourage in its followers?
At least Mr Sina, even if you are 100% wrong, you are clear in your answers to these questions. Dr. Rottier says you are wrong but does not say why. Dr. Rottier speaks of Islam but does not define it; he said that you and others do not understand Islam but does not offer another understanding of this belief system called Islam. He knows that bad Muslims are not really following Islam but does not explain how he knows that. Or more philosophically, what is ‘good’ and ‘bad’ in Islam?
I look forward to his return!
Copy / pasting can get a Phd.
Copy / pasting can get a Phd. for any idiot like Pete Rottier . Knowledge of any kind can not be invented: it can only be discovered. With borrowed knowledge any one can get a Phd. This Muslim in the guise of an agnostic
flaunting his/her Phd. just to impress people here on this forum.
I am sure this Phd holder will never dare confront Ali Sina again in the future after the last debate and the drabbing he got. He is a true follower of pedo. Mo. , who has to tuck tail before a strong adversary.
@12 I agree 100% with
@12
I agree 100% with everything Bruce Lee has said in his post.
I, too, am I westerner who firmly believes that many other westerners are far too stubborn to admit being wrong about Islam, even if they have suspicions about it. This is partly due to pride and partly to do with the laziness of not wanting to re-analyze the entire ideology under the evidence that it's not peaceful but actually an evil cult! Also, I guess a lot of Westerners would feel stupid and really vulnerable if they had to admit to being taken for such a ride by the Islamists (i.e. believing the positive spin they have tried to put on Islam since 9/11). So, many westerners prefer to play into the Islamist's game and uphold the status quo.
I strongly suspect that people like Dr. Rottier desperately want to justify their lifelong stance by trying to prove themselves correct, even to the point that they are clenching at straws and their arguments sound ridiculous to those-in-the-know. It isn't an easy thing to admit that what you've dedicated your life to is complete garbage. But many ex-Muslims here don't merely teach Islam, they've had the misfortune to live through it. Unlike Dr. Rottier (who chose his own career path), these ex-Muslims had no choice in the matter.
Dr. Rottier seems like a good enough guy who doesn't debate like the typical Muslim in most of Ali Sina's challenges, and kudos to him for trying to answer all the reader replies leveled at him. However, it must be clear to even Dr. Rottier by now, that he is out of his depth when debating Islam with bonafide victims who used Islam's evils as the catalyst to change their lives for the better . And I do hope the debate and reader comments give him pause... if not to change his mind, then at least to get him thinking of the possibility than his view on Islam might be completely wrong.
This is Ali Sina at his best.
This is Ali Sina at his best. Amazing references and immense depth.
All religions are based on
All religions are based on myths and they evolved over a long period of time.I truly believe Islam evolved out of Judaism and Christianity.Therefore Judaism is the root of all evil religions.I don't need to qoute from Old Testament, i am sure everybody here is aware of Joshua the murderer and rapist.
Christians were much worse than presnt day Taliban.They burnt people alive before the reformation took place.
Islam too will go through reformation.Millions of Muslims practice Sufism that is in no way any worse than Christianity.
I was raised as a Wahabi but no longer believe in any religion.I would recommend Age Of Reason by Thomas Paine.
Ali Sina's approach is very troubling,man of such intellect should be denouncing all religions.
Agnostic.
Islam is a LIE. Jesus was a
Islam is a LIE.
Jesus was a Jew, not a muhammadan.
Jesus preached the Gospel, the Trinity, the suffering of the Cross.
Islam ROTS the mind.
Islam ROTS the heart.
Islam ROTS the soul.
Islam makes liars like JAH -- Jah you are a liar and destined for HELL.
Dan Simmons wrote a story
Dan Simmons wrote a story about the "war on terrorism". In it, he equated targeting 'terrorism' was as absurd as blaming 'aviation' for the bombing of Pearl Harbor. He called it a "Category Error" - making the problem unsolvable through your inability – or fear – of defining it correctly.
http://www.dansimmons.com/news/message/2006_04.htm
We will never defeat terrorism until we properly define it and attribute it to the ideology responsible.
The coming of Christ was
The coming of Christ was foretold in the Old Testament. Yes, the Old Testament contains some genocidal incidents and instances of ethnic cleansing. Howver, the prophetic power of the OT was incontrovertible. The proof that OT is a work of God is to be found in the prophecies re: The coming of Jesus, Messiah, Prince of Peace.
Christ wiped the slate clean, inviting ALL and EVERYONE to the Kingdom of Heaven.
muhammad dragged everyone back to something truly evil like Pharisaic Judaism with its silly rituals, its fetishes, its superstitions.
islam is a kind of retrograde Judaism for retards and psychopaths.
Jesus surrendered his will to
Jesus surrendered his will to the Will of his Creator Eloi (Allah in Arabic):
Jesus said: “I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father.” (John 5:30)
So, he was a true Muslim who submits his will to the Will of his Creator.
Jesus didn’t want to die! He was crying on the cross to his Creator Eloi (Allah in Arabic):
Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" - which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" (Mark 15:34)
His Creator Allah saved him from his enemies:
That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not. Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise. (Quran 4:157-158)
The Islamic solution of the Christian Holy Trinity:
Father = God the Creator;
Son (Jesus) = Prophet of God (Matthew 21:11, Luke 24:19);
Holy Ghost = Arch Angel Gabriel.
May be this is the answer to
May be this is the answer to Ali Sina's questions.
For what little I know about these communists or leftists... Don't they believe that a revolution is necessary (to kill or annihilate past culture) to bring about changes in any society?
So no wonder they are looking for an instrument or tool to advance their ideas. Islamic zombies are perfect tools for this. Only problem is that leftists (like ethe foolish Americans) do not understand that once islamists gain power they stand to lose everything. This same mistake was committed by American government too to advance their selfish hidden goals.
So Ali Sina should STOP asking wrong questions to leftists and ask the only right question,
What is the leftists agenda in supporting Islamists?
If he can answer this question, he will ask no more questions to leftists. I hope Ali Sina reads this.
The proof that OT is a work
hello yankey,
Can you explain why after 2000 years your god is so unsuccessful in convincing any learned Jew to accept this fake prophecy?
Jesus surrendered his will to
Jesus surrendered his will to YHWH
YHWH = Jehovah, The Living God
(YHWH = He will be Present or He will come to be, meaning the Messiah, Jesus Christ.
Jesus said: “I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father.” (John 5:30)
Indeed! Jesus was The Obedient Son of His Father in Heaven
(hint: muhammad was the anti-Christ who followed Lucifer)
Jesus was a Jew with a message to reform the PLANET!!
Jesus didn’t want to die! Of course he didn't. But he was a martyr who laid down his life to save sinners.
Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?” - which means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Mark 15:34)
Yes, and it's written in Aramaic. The Hebrew is Eli, ELi, lama azavtani. Its from the Psalms, which is proof that Jesus was a Jew!!!
========
ISLAM IS A LIE AND TRUTH KILLS IT!
@continuum I'm a very
@continuum
I'm a very learned Jew and JESUS CONVINCED ME!
BTW, not everyone gets saved. To be saved is to receive GRACE. It is not deserved, it is not earned. It is a gift from God.
Why did I get the gift from God of Faith in Christ and the Power of HIS SAVING GRACE?????
I don't know.
@continum What fake prophecy
@continum
What fake prophecy are you referring to?
@JAH, Since this site helps
@JAH,
Since this site helps muslims, why don't you invite more of your friends to this website and advise them to invite their friends as well. After all, it strengthens your faith and you don' t need to spend too much time on your religous duty because we will do that for you.
Im a very learned Jew and
Did you meet him somewhere? Can you ask him to come over to this forum?
If you are learned in OT or Tanach or hatever you call it, you should know better that all the so called prophecies about jc from OT is fake.
I think it is time for you to learn from the people who really know what OT says.
jewsforjudaism.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=section&id=3&Itemid=211
outreachjudaism.org/questions.html
@continuum You're not a
@continuum
You're not a learned Jew. Your an ignoramus!
@Jah, Read and
@Jah,
Read and study!!!
muhammad the fiend was a paranoid schizophrenic and serial murderer!!!!!
He took the words of the Messiah Jesus and turned it all UPSIDE DOWN!!!
You worhsip a fiend and a murderer and you're end will be no better!
Jah, You lie like a
Jah,
You lie like a muhammadan prayer rug!
Of course there was no word for Christianity when Jesus came along.
Nobody knew -- at first -- that this Jesus of Nazareth, a Jew, was THE CHRIST.
Messiah = Maschiach! which means "anointed one"
Jesus was anointed with the HOLY SPIRIT and became one with his father, i.e. His (Jesus') will was IDENTICAL to God's will.
----
so different than the fiend muhammad who followed his lusts and killer instincts and thought only about himself. muhammad was a fraud and you've been had!
“This is that Moses, which
“This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.” (Acts 7:37)
Hey Jah,
Moses was prophesying the coming of Jesus Christ.
muhammad was the anti-Christ. See the Apostle John:
What is an antichrist? A key is found in II John 7: "For many deceivers have gone out into the world, who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist."
The anti-Christ is muhammad
@continuum Have you met
@continuum
Have you met Moses?
LOL!
ALERT: MISSIONARIES STEP UP
ALERT: MISSIONARIES STEP UP ACTIVITIES TO CONVERT JEWS IN ISRAEL
Jews for Judaism International Centers
In recent years, there has been a phenomenal growth in the number of Israelis converting to Christianity through the efforts of Evangelical missionaries who use “Messianic Judaism” to deceptively describe their form of “Christianity for Jews”. These Israeli converts claim they are more Jewish than ever and proudly refer to themselves as “Messianic Jews.” The media has lately published numerous reports of violence and purported “terrorist acts,” supposedly conducted by extremist Jews, against “Hebrew-Christian” and “Messianic Jewish” missionaries in the State of Israel.
Jews for Judaism is the leading international counter-missionary organization that monitors these actives and educates the Jewish community about the threat posed by deceptive and aggressive missionary groups targeting Jews for conversion. While raising awareness about the agenda of such groups is critical to Jewish survival, we are extremely concerned by these reports.
Although Jews for Judaism, along with all segments of the Jewish community, remains united against missionary attempts to convert us to Christianity, we strongly condemn any act of violence against “Messianic Jewish” and “Jews for Jesus” groups or individuals. Disagreement with deceptive tactics and differences in belief can never justify actions that are an anathema to our Jewish tradition. Such actions can only strengthen the hand of those who seek to destroy the spiritual foundations of the Jewish community and separate us from our faith.
However, our condemnation of violence, must not blind us to the frightening reality of what is happening today in our beloved Jewish State:
● Most missionaries have deceptively convinced many Israelis that “Messianic Judaism” is a legitimate expression of our Jewish faith and totally avoid mention of their belief that Jesus is G-d. There are between 15,000 and 20,000 self-identified “Messianic Jews” currently living in Israel. Using Hebrew terminology, misappropriated Jewish symbols and distortions of traditional Jewish texts, many are active in missionary efforts across the country.
● There are more than 130 identified “Messianic Jewish” churches and groups in Israel. These missionary centers are largely funded and supported by evangelical Christian groups based outside of Israel. These organizations publicly boast of their desire to convert Jews to Christianity and, at the same time, contribute financially to Israeli society.
● Through a campaign of subtle infiltration, we are witnessing a substantial increase in targeted proselytizing activities in the Israeli Army, summer camps and among such vulnerable populations as terrorist victims, the elderly, Holocaust survivors, secular and disillusioned youth, and immigrants from the Former Soviet Union and Ethiopia.
● Aliyah to Israel by “Messianic Jewish” missionaries is encouraged and supported by a host of Christian groups and has grown exponentially in the past two years. Through litigation and lobbying, these missionaries are working to change Israel’s “Law of Return” so as to make it easier for “Messianic Jewish” missionaries to become Israeli citizens.
● In a desire to obtain Christian friendship and funding, many Israeli politicians publicly endorse and associate with these missionary leaders, and assist them in attaining a stronger foothold in Israel. In so doing, they ignore their deceptive conversionary activities and theological teachings, namely that all unconverted Jews will burn in hell for eternity and that the extermination of most Israeli Jews will be a necessary prelude to their eagerly anticipated “Second Coming” of Jesus.
These challenges are serious, but not insurmountable. Winning back Jews, ensnared by messianic missionaries cannot be accomplished neither by violence nor a purposeful ignorance of today’s missionary menace. However, it can be accomplished through time-tested programs of compassion, dialogue, integrity, outreach, and setting examples of authentic Jewish living that embody the highest principles of our faith.
Jews for Judaism continues to successfully respond to the serious challenges ahead. We welcome your support and involvement.
Jah, The next step is for
Jah,
The next step is for you to leave the Satanic Death Cult called Islam and save your soul with Jesus before you join the fiend muhammad in hell where he roasts for all eternity.
Yankel, You are a Satanic
Yankel,
You are a Satanic Evangelical christian missionary. You worship a Demon as your God, not even Jesus!
@Jah I am a born-again Jew.
@Jah
I am a born-again Jew. Just like Jesus.
I don't have to worry about my soul.
I'm not an Arab-ass-kisser and devil worshiper like you.
Youre not a learned
Thank you for your compliments.
I think not...far from it...
Fortunately not..LOL...
if you are done spamming, can you get back to those websites to know from really learned jews...
jewsforjudaism.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=section&id=3&Itemid=211
outreachjudaism.org/questions.html
@continuum I know all about
@continuum
I know all about those websites. I was reared on orthodox Judaism and --agav, ani yachol lidaber ivrit vkoreh ivrit.
did you understand any of that? It was Hebrew.
Since you're so learned, perhaps you can respond to my post in Ivrit??
Nachon?
I had the following email
I had the following email ex-change with Dr. Rottier
Ali,
I do not have the time to reply today--I am very booked. I will try to respond tomorrow to your inquiry. I do like how you brought Paine and Voltaire into the argument--it is likely where I would have headed anyway. My full response will come tomorrow but I am not an apologist for radical Islam....
Hi Pete,
Take your time. I will let our readers know that you are busy.
I know you are not an apologist for radical Islam. I never said you were. But you are an apologist for Islam. Islam is radical. When you defend Islam you defend radicalism. Some Muslims are not radical, but we are not talking about the Muslims. We are attacking Islam.
The question is why don't you see us as Voltaires and Paines of Islam and instead of cheering for us, chide us?
Take care
Ali
did you understand any of
I guess it says "Yankel knows nothing and is full of BS"...
If it was Hebrew, what it is now and what will it be tomorrow?
What the F$#@ is that?
Is it Mexican cheese food. I do not like too much cheese. Thank you.
continuum Your welcome. It
continuum
Your welcome. It isn't everyday I get to make a complete fool out of somebody like you.
see ya...wouldn't wanna be ya
Dear Yankel, Youre the fool
Dear Yankel,
Youre the fool here. You make an assumption and then continue with your assumptions.
You can easily notice that
You can easily notice that piranhas that would want to attack the Christian belief, are coming from all sort of directions, even attacking Ali Sina, our own hero, for using the term Christianity in his explanation concerning free-thinking. How dare him for using the two words, Christianity and free-thinking, together as inter-related. The number one culprit which annoys me the most is the Hindu. Hindus will bark like mad dogs when people around here use Christianity or better yet, the Judeo-Christian religion, as a platform to discredit Islam. Fortunately, I’m a freedom fighter, and I will not hesitate to say it when I smell something funny, like a curry-like-decomposing smell. I have the courage to say what I feel and what I think, and I think Hindus are disgusting human beings whose connection to Islam is as deep as the corruption both pagan beliefs have been intertwined and rooted historically and spiritually even before Muhammad came into the picture. If you’re an honest person, do your research of what the history tells you about the influence of pagan Hinduism to pre-Islamic era and you can clearly see how these two pagan beliefs are actually one and the same.
Sure, the ever slick as a snake Hindu would try to connect Islam and Christianity through Abraham, just like Satan did in his Qur’an, to lure the unknowing masses that Islam has a everything to do with the Judeo-Christian religion despite the many times Christians would tell them that Islam is the anti-thesis of the Judeo-Christian faith. Hindus will do the best they can to stop the evangelization of their Hindu brothers in India by using their satanic mob, just like the Muslims, in attacking a Christian Indian for passing fliers informing them of Jesus Christ. You can search this in Youtube easily.
Evil people always have something in common, and the most obvious one is their hatred towards the Jews and Christians. Just like Ali Sina’s article, those leftists, atheists and Hindus are more prone to attacking the Judeo-Christian faith than to attack Islam. People don’t see the connection but I can clearly see it. Ever since the beginning of time, Satan has staged a war against God. From the pagan Babylon, the Pagan Roman Empire, Hitler’s Nazism, and now the pagan Hindu-converted to-Islamic empire, Satan enthralled on destroying the chosen people of God, and for one reason only – that is because Jesus Christ came from these people.
Christians, be strong like me as a freedom fighter and keep fighting Satan and his evil influences, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit of God.
even attacking Ali Sina, our
What can we say? We are allergic to falsehood and blatant lies... It is like an Islamist telling us people that freedom was invented by these scum...
Last time I read quran and OT, I though from genocideto sexual slavery originated from OT. I did not find any sexual slavery in Hinduism. Are you sure you are mistaking xianity for Hinduism?
At the least it does NOT smell as bad a decomposing corpse.
This sums up christian belief which is NOT any different than Islamic belief.
A true Muslim believes that everything other than Islam is from satan.
A true xian believes that everything other than xianity is from satan.
I hope Ali Sina sees the strange similarity between these two religions.
Thank you for confirming that both religions are from the same satanic source.
Hey Yankel my grandmother was
Hey Yankel my grandmother was a Jew and she believed in Jesus.
Jews rock, Muslims suck!
Jews rock, Muslims suck!
Wednesday, August 27,
Wednesday, August 27, 2008
About 30 armed men with sophisticated rifles and AK-47s attacked Saraswati's ashram in the Jalespata area in Kandhamal's Tumudiband Block on Saturday. A warning letter found at the Saraswati religious center and the use of expensive arms suggested Maoists were behind the attack, and police have reportedly said the Maoist rebels are responsible for the murders of the Hindu leaders.
Violence erupted the next day when Hindutva extremists paraded the body of Saraswati throughout nearby villages, whipping up anger and mobilizing crowds against Christians, in uncontested defiance of a Kandhamal district administration prohibition against the gathering of four or more people.
Among the slogans shouted was, "Kill Christians and destroy their institutions."
Saraswati allegedly incited the attacks on Christians and their property in Kandhamal last Christmas season. The violence lasted for more than a week beginning December 24, killing at least four Christians and burning 730 houses and 95 churches.
The 2007 attacks were allegedly carried out mainly by Vishwa Hindu Parishad extremists under the pretext of avenging an alleged attack on Saraswati by local Christians. Hundreds of Christians were displaced by the violence in Kandhamal, and they are still in various relief camps set up by the state government.
Christians make up 2.4 percent of Orissa's population, or 897,861 of the 36.7 million people.
Saturday night, Swami Laxamanananda Saraswati, a top leader of the VHP , was killed in an attack by 20 men suspected of being Maoist rebels.
The Maoists had earlier warned the swami to leave the area. The attack, which included gunfire and a hand grenade, also killed four other people.
The swami was a leading opponent of Christian work in India and his followers in the ultra-fundamentalist VHP have used his murder to incite hundreds of their followers to go on a rampage across several districts in Orissa state, according the missionary organization Gospel for Asia.
GFA, which has a U.S. office in Carrollton, Texas, supports indigenous missionaries, church planters, and Christian social ministries throughout India.
The ministry reports at least six Christians who attended GFA-related churches have been killed, more than 15 GFA-related church buildings destroyed and at least 110 church members' homes burned to the ground.
GFA reports other Christian groups have also suffered, with many deaths reported and attacks on ministers and missionaries being widespread, including reports of Catholic nuns being gang raped and murdered by the extremists.
"We are also deeply shocked and anguished to hear of the atrocities and violence meted out to the innocent Christians and churches in Orissa as a backlash of the sorrowful event," said Dr. K.P. Yohannan, founder and president of Gospel for Asia. "We are praying for an immediate halt to the violence."
Dozens of pastors and their families have been attacked by roving mobs, and many have fled with their congregations into the surrounding forests. Some children and their parents have been in hiding, without food or water, since the rioting began on Sunday.
One GFA Bible college is under police protection, while a GFA Bridge of Hope children's center was closed when a mob threatened to attack. They threatened to kidnap one of the workers, so the staff and 120 children left the area. It is not known what has happened to the center property.
"What is most disturbing is that these attacks seem to be well organized and orchestrated," Dr. Yohannan said. "We have reports that the VHP have actually held strategy meetings in order to plan and coordinate this campaign of violence against peaceful Christian families and churches."
Pamphlets have been printed and widely distributed accusing the Christians of the swami's murder, even though most authorities indicate it was most likely Maoist rebels who were responsible.
"We thank God that the government officials are protecting our Bible college campus and trying to protect our people," K.P. added. "That is a true blessing." But as the violence has increased, many fear the government's actions are not enough.
Reports note that the mobs are using firebombs to attack homes and churches, and there is little evidence of police or other government intervention.
There are more than 295 GFA-related churches in Orissa. GFA has dozens of missionaries in the state, and the people have been very receptive to the message of Christ's love for them.
"But the fundamentalist groups have always opposed us," noted one GFA worker, "and now there is great tension prevailing, and Christians are running away for their lives."
"My heart goes out to the missionaries and believers," Dr. Yohannan said. "We must pray with all earnestness for the suffering church in Orissa at this time."
Pope Benedict urged religious leaders and local authorities to "work together to re-establish between the members of the various communities the peaceful coexistence and the harmony that have always marked Indian society."
The violence began as Hindu hard-liners set ablaze a Christian orphanage early Monday, killing a woman who worked as a lay teacher and seriously injuring a priest.
Four people were killed later that day, including two burned alive when rioters set fire to thatched huts.
Six more people were killed Tuesday and Wednesday in villages across the state, despite a curfew imposed by police, authorities said. One was doused with kerosene and burned to death by a mob, another died when protesters set fire to a house, while four were killed in an exchange of gunfire between the rival groups.
It is not clear if the latest dead were Christians or Hindus. Security forces on Wednesday were ordered to shoot on sight protesters defying the curfew.
On Tuesday the Holy See condemned the orphanage attack, and a top Vatican official called it "a sin against God and humanity."
In an interview published in Italy's Corriere della Sera daily, Cardinal Jean-Louis Tauran, the head of the Vatican's council for inter-religious dialogue, said there was "no possible justification" for the assault.
Hinduism is the main religion in India, and relations with the country's religious minorities - such as Christians, who account for 2.5 percent of the country's 1.1 billion people, and Muslims, who make up 14 percent - are usually peaceful.
However, Hindu nationalists often accuse Christian missionaries of luring poor people away from India's largest faith through bribes or coercion - a charge churches have denied. The issue of conversions has sparked violence by hard-line Hindus throughout India's history