Sharia Infiltrates German Courts, Schools, and Ministry of Foreign Affairs
Submitted by Sami Alrabaa on Thu, 04/09/2009 - 06:51
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Once again a German court ruled by referring to Shrai'a (Islamic law), which predominantly incites to denigration of women, hatred, violence.
Most recently, Lisa, a German woman (46) married to an Egyptian, called the police seeking protection for herself and her 17-year-old daughter from assaults by her husband. Magdi, Lisa's husband, threatened to kill their daughter who had been raped by a man. Magdi, a practicing Muslim, believes that his daughter committed "Zena" (adultery). He told his wife that he was always suspicious of his daughter who clandestinely had a German boyfriend. Lisa filed a divorce case against her husband, and requested deporting him.
The judge, Matthias Rau, at a court in Hanover, Germany, ruled (January 21, 2009), Lisa had to wait for at least one year before she is legally divorced. Her husband cannot be deported. "He must be re-educated, in hopes he would renounce his Islamic understanding of 'Zena,'" the judge said.
The German judge argued, "Muslims have a different understanding of rape than Europeans, and this must be taken into account."
In an interview with a German radio, NDR on February 18, 2009, Rau said, "Sharia aligns rape to adultery, Zena, and victims - women - are often punished instead of prosecuting the perpetrators and convict them."
Helmut Wagner, another German judge, this time in Essen, ruled March 2, 2009, Muslim girls in Germany can not be forced to swim in public and learn about the evolution theory at school. The parents of three school girls requested a verdict freeing their daughters from taking part in swimming classes and lessons which teach the evolution theory. Wagner argued, "These things contradict tenets in Islam, the religion of these girls, and hence in light of freedom of religion, the Muslim girls cannot be forced to do or learn things which are incompatible with their religion."
The Attorney General was indignant. He objected to Wagner's verdict by saying, "How would this judge rule if a Muslim kills someone who commits apostasy. According to the Koran, he must be killed. Would the judge let the perpetrator free?" The Attorney General cites the Koran which says, "If they (Muslims) turn (their) back (to Islam), then seize them and KILL them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper." (Sura 4, verse 89).
The attorney General added, "In Islam, polygamy is permissible. Should also this be sanctioned in Germany for Muslims? It seems to me that some German judges are more royal than the king and more Catholic than the Pope. Some Arab countries use Western legal codes."
In another case, the judge, Hans-Dieter Bachmann at a court in Dortmund, also ruled (February 12, 2009), with reference to Sharia. He said, according to the Koran, a Muslim father can beat his 15-year-old daughter who refuses to wear a headscarf, and he cannot be punished, and quoted the following passage from the Koran, "The men are made responsible for the women, and God has endowed them with certain qualities, and made them the bread earners. The righteous women will cheerfully accept this arrangement, since it is God's commandment, and honor their husbands during their absence. If you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, then (you may use negative incentives like) deserting them in bed, then you may (as a last alternative) beat them." (Suran 4 on Women).
Numerous cases have now been ruled with reference to Sharia in Germany. Earlier in 2007, Christa Datz-Winter, a judge in Frankfurt, also referred to a passage in the Koran that gives the right to a husband to beat his wife. She procrastinated the divorce of a Moroccan women from her Moroccan husband, Both live in Germany.
Instead of using Paragraph 1565 of the German Federal Law, Datz-Winter preferred to use the hardship criteria as defined in the Koran, and added in her verdict, "Both the wife and the husband are Muslims. In Islam, the husband is allowed to castigate his wife. This fact cannot be ignored, and cultural and religious motives must be considered in this case."
Andrea Bramsche, a lawyer in Stuttgart, Germany, told the prominent weekly newspaper, Die Zeit online, (February 19, 2009), "What is going on in German courts? Are we here in Saudi Arabia or Iran? Even some Muslim countries are obviously more secular than we are. Syria, Lebanon, and Tunisia, for example, apply the Napoleon code, and Turkey uses the Swiss code. Besides, would a Saudi judge rule allowing a German to drink alcohol in Saudi Arabia because the Bible allows that?"
The list of passages from the Koran and Hadith, which basically constitute Sharia, and denigrate women is long. For more details check out "Is Islam a Violent Faith?" and "Women in Hadith."
If German courts opt to use Sharia in their verdicts then women can be beaten, their testimony is worth half of that of men, they are disallowed to travel alone, they can inherit only half the mount their male relatives get. Women are intellectually deficient. They even cannot fast without their husband's permission, etc. All these commandments are entailed in Sharia.
Sharia has also infiltrated German schools. The head teacher of a secondary school in Detmold permits Muslim pupils who do not want to learn the evolution theory to learn the "creationist theory" as an alternative.
In another school, the head teacher issued instructions to male teachers not to shake hands with Muslim girls after handing over their graduation documents. "This is haram (impermissible) in Islam." The head teacher said.
Sharia has also infiltrated the German Ministry of Foreign Affairs. In an interview with the Egyptian Al Ahram Weekly (October 19, 2008), Gabrielle Linda Guelil, a Muslim Turk, whose real first name is Layla and who dyes her hair blond to look German, and works for this ministry as head of a new section called "Dialogue with the Islamic World," said, "Through interaction and dialogue with the Muslim world we hope to bridge the gap between cultures and clear up any misunderstandings."
What kind of "misunderstandings" is Guelil talking about? Are "beating women" and urging Muslims to kill infidels - Christians and Jews - which the Koran, Hadith, and fatwas (edicts) incite to, all "misunderstandings"? This is an insult to the intellect of all sanely-thinking people.
Then Guelil says, "Tolerance must prevail. Respecting other religions is essential." The question is who is intolerant, Islamists or the rest of the world? Who does not allow non-Muslims build their temples and practice their religions? Is it the West, or Muslim countries, spearheaded by Saudi Arabia, the cradle of fanatic Islam? Who set embassies to fire after the Muhammad cartoons? Have you ever heard of a Christian or a Jew setting fire to a mosque? Who is actually intolerant?
To add insult to injury, Guelil says, "Some Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia, enforce the Islamic Sharia law without making the effort to explain that this law does not necessarily constitute a violation of human rights."
What should the Saudis explain? How men should beat women and denigrate them? Beating women, denigrating them, and inciting to hatred and violence against non-Muslims do not "constitute a violation of human rights"? This is insane.
Instead of lecturing us about "misunderstandings" and "tolerance," Guelil should have asked Muslims to be tolerant and renounce violence.
Sharia is not the "law of Allah." God is merciful and tolerant. He would never incite to kill human beings and denigrate them. Anyone who claims the opposite is an outlaw and irreligious by all means.
Islam is an Arabic word which means "submission." There is no room of freedom in Islam. It is full of contradictions. While the Koran says, "There is no compulsion in Islam" (Sura 2, verse 257), it incites to hatred and violence in numerous passages. Muslims who turn their back to Islam are branded as "heretics" and sentenced to death. Check out the above mentioned articles.
Many German apologists, and for that matter many Europeans like the British Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams who endorses Sharia, argue that Muslims living in the West must have their own law, Sharia, applied next to the mundane law. They justify that by religious freedom which all Western constitutions prescribe.
They also argue that in a bid to integrate migrants of different religious backgrounds, these people must "feel at home." Their religious tenets must be taken into consideration. But how about Western mundane laws and constitutions, do they use the Bible or refer to it? The answer is NO.
At the same time all those apologists do not realize, or rather ignore that Sharia violates basic human rights.
I believe that apologists who refer to Sharia and accept its appalling rules do so out of fear of Islamists. The aim is appeasing radical Muslims. Consequently, they make themselves accomplice to those who violate human rights and incite to hatred and violence.
FamilySecurityMatters.org Contributing Editor Dr. Sami Alrabaa, an ex-Muslim, is a professor of Sociology and an Arab-Muslim culture specialist. Before moving to Germany he taught at KuwaitUniversity, KingSaudUniversity, and MichiganStateUniversity. He also writes for the Jerusalem Post.
Islam is miscarriage of
Islam is miscarriage of humanity. Our age, however, is not the only one to see Islam as an enemy and as a destructive element. In truth, the battle against Islam is as old as islam itself. The battle against this parasite runs through the centuries like a “green” thread. The histories of all peoples record the ever-recurring acts of defense, the desperate battles of the host peoples against these interlopers, which are the inevitable result of the arrogance of Islamic power and of Islamic influence. Now, the great German nation is falling to Islam.
Koran is a concoction filled with arrogance, hypocrisy, licentiousness, and perversity that probably has no equal in all of the non-Islamic world. As Ali Sina pointed out, it seems to us more the miscarriage of a hysteric and diseased mind of its prophet Mohammad in the last stages of mental illness than a book of faith and customs, especially when we are told that that it reveals the nature of "Muslims" living in "in a perfect way." How something that was perfect in 7th century could be perfect now? Has there been no growth since?
German apologists would do well to look into this probe.
I think your views are
I think your views are fascist Shamsher. Islamic people too have contributed for the development of the US as well as Europe. Some of them may have been misled now by extreme views, but let us not blame the whole for the deeds of part.
.
Wow islamic people have
Wow islamic people have contributed to US and europe! Lets see.Hmm the london bombings Ah there we go.The Madrid Bombing,Ahh the Race riot in France.Hmmm the rioting by the scum bag moslems recently in a super market, in France
The rape of swedish girl,Hmm Bradford rioting,Hmm Killing in the name of allah the pimp in Netherlands, wow the list of contribution by these chalies is too big.
It's just my assumption that the common evil thread running through these most constructive acts on humanity is Islamic evil.Open your eyes.If you are posting here as a charlie's assumed name and infact are a daughter banging scum bag moslem, not a lot to say.
The islam is pure evil.Islam preaches evil, practices evil ad sets evil examples ofr the nut case moslems to follow for a long time to come.
Charlie I think your views
Charlie I think your views are stupid and naive. you have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about.
You have absoluetly zero understanding of islam and your mental faculties do not exceed that of a kindergarten kid. Try to understand what Shamsher has said before you call him a facist. Calling evil by its name and calling a dangerous just as it is does not make one a Facist. Did Shamsher anywhere say that Muslims should be killed enmasse or did he say that Muslims should be flogged and their properties taken over. So how exactly do you call him a facist, or is facist a pretty lil word that you happen to know to know.
Can you also enumerate a few contributions made by the islamic people in the West. They have'nt made any in their native lands. So the next time you post and assasinate someone's charater, be certain that you can backup what you say.
Charlie if somebody helps you
Charlie if somebody helps you tidy your house does he have the right to burn it.
Right I see the problem.The
Right I see the problem.The moslems want to have sex with the daughter of this judge with or with out the permission of the father as
1.Kafirs are game for moslems to have sex any which way they like.
2.Kafirs are najjis
3.kafirs are right hand posessions
This can be and should be considered as pious act of a pious allah fearing good moslem.This a pious entry in to the vagina and so should not be considered as rape.
The moslems want to thigh the year old infant of this judge and am sure he will understand the pious nature of the criminal who is thighing and will say its quite but in the nature of allah.So he will allow that to happen too.
Moslem will next come ( just like the pedophile poop prophet) to ask for the child bride 6 year old in the house of this judge and am 100% certain that judge will be elated at the thought of 55 year old moslem gaining forceful entry in to this child as an allah approved, encouraged and appreciated act of entry.he will be elated that allah the most compassionate and merciful chose his grand daughters awra to enter with the help of the floppy dik of this 55 year old moslem.Hamdulillah. mashallah, subhanallah
Fantastic to be a moslem
@Dr. Sami Alrabaa Great info
@Dr. Sami Alrabaa
Great info on how ridiculous this lunacy is being appeased, you must be a very upright person especially if you were once a Muslim, to get out of the emotional web that Islam weaves all over its victim requires much more than the average honesty.
The fact that a human being could understand the position of a woman regarding rape in Islam and remain untouched by saying "god says so" will never be understood by me, the only thing I can understand there is, those type of people are detestable, despicable and emotional wreaks of the highest order
"Islamic people too have
"Islamic people too have contributed for the development of the US as well as Europe."
Ha ha ha ha ha ha! Good one Charlie! You have made my day with this great joke. How about another every day to make us laugh. Who says taqiyya liars don't have a sense of humor?
wHAT DID ONE MUSLIM
wHAT DID ONE MUSLIM INVENT?
NAME ONE THING? NOT EVEN SUICIDE!
Dear Raisin H One thing that
Dear Raisin H
One thing that muslims invented was the word "assasin". As you may know, this word has arabic roots. I don`t think muslims could invent anything further after that. It was their peak, and there was no need for anything else further.
To all you western apologists
To all you western apologists (teachers, feminists, government officials, citizens),
How far are you going to allow this to go? Tell me, if your "caphir" daughter comes home raped by a Muslim, are you going to do what you KNOW is right or sit her down as she is crying profusely and explain that it is ok for a Muslim to do that as it is a part of their religion!
Should a Muslim kill an "infidel" are you going to allow it because the Koran says so?
This is the west....America, Europe....not Saudi, Iran, Paki, etc. Go by OUR laws (that of your western countries). Do you see them making us feel at home when we go over there? NO! You don't! Wake up idiots!
People, I have a feeling many lives will be lost before the west stops ignoring how evil Islam is...then and only then will people decide to take action...after numerous "infidels" have been killed, daughters stoned, raped, "honor" killing, "honor" suicide, child molesting, rape and marriage....what is it going to take!?! And God forbid there ever be a Muslim judge.....then us "caphirs" are in big trouble!
I was once stupid like many of you apologists...I'm sorry, all of you apologists, but like many others, i woke up and stopped living the evil lie and I want the same for my child....I want her to play, not worry about when sick pedo mo wannabe is coming after her again. I want my teen-age son to know how to respect women!. My teen-age daughter not to think of herself as a whore should she be a victim of rape (god forbid).
Is Sharia the kind of law you'd want for your kids, sisters, brother,s mothers, female friends, sons...anyone? Even if you yourself don't follow it, accepting it makes you no more a part of humanity than these practicing evil people following this evil cult! Protect yourself and your family....stop supporting and apologizing and defending evil....there are many in this cult who want to get out, but can't because of your support....
Feminists....you want equal rights for all your sisters....go live in an Islamic country for a while...then come back and scream...women's rights...you don't know the half of it....and if you do, you ignore it!
Please tell me Charlie how I
Please tell me Charlie how I am a fascist. Please tell Charlie also where you come from. I am simply calling a spade a spade. Isn`t it Charlie? If you differ, please illustrate Charlie.
Raisin Head says wHAT DID
Raisin Head says
wHAT DID ONE MUSLIM INVENT?
NAME ONE THING? NOT EVEN SUICIDE!
How true, it was the LTTE who taught the Islamic terrorists the art of exploding one's self.
Well put Free Spirit. I keep
Well put Free Spirit. I keep asking the same question.
Something has to be done to remvoe idiots like these Judges from places of power and influence.
But what and how.
How can we have any hope when the leader of the free world says "We will convey our deep appreciation for the Islamic faith, which has done so much over so many centuries to shape the world for the better..." . What the hell do you tell this idiot.
I cannot help but feel that freedom has become a thing of the past in western nations. We are losing a little bit every day. Our children and grand children will only hear and read about it, they will never get to experience it. Because we are so complacent and stupid, we first let these savages into our countries and then let them tell us how to run our lives. TRAGIC....
dear charlie, How is
dear charlie,
How is shamsher fascist???What you call a spade, spade right??Then when you call islam evil,you label a person fascist.Good logic.Then dig out a new name for spade,we will dig out a new name for islam & evil.
If you are a christian then your mother,sister & daughter are game for muslims. islam is that simple.The good thing about islam is its simplicity & plain speaking satanic verses.Explore FFI & then post your comments or is it holy deception?????? Good try.
Dears, at least the Indian
Dears, at least the Indian judge had some guts when he admitted a petition at the Calcutta high court to ban the koran in 1985. google Calcutta koran petition for more details.
Charlie states: "I think your
Charlie states: "I think your views are fascist Shamsher. Islamic people too have contributed for the development of the US as well as Europe. Some of them may have been misled now by extreme views, but let us not blame the whole for the deeds of part."
Please tell me Charlie what contributions to the development of the U.S. are the Muslim responsible for? Until very late in the 20th Century there were no Muslims in the U.S.
To my knowledge the only "contributions" to the U.S. is a different skyline in Manhatten.
Muslim scientific and art contrubitions to the West is near zero.
The only contribution these
The only contribution these mother xxxxxx have given to the world is "how to stop planes flying into skyscrapers".
#17 There were Muslims in
#17 There were Muslims in America as slaves sold by other Muslims.
Nation of Islam was invented in 1930 with wallace fard and followed by Elijah Muhammad of Detroit. He was a white man who taught blacks to hate whites as his get over.
After Carter, Eastern Muslims arrived enmass and over took the black NOI. Dating services ask for gilr and women to date. They changed it after someone caught on to the child brides evils of Islam.
It is so hard to get free Americans to realize how blessed they are. India fought Islam for over a 1000 years and not for the Brits, Muslims would have finally wiped out Hindus. Muslims have more babies and by design plan to outsex the world and take over. Maybe Muslims need to be sterilized as the did to other people, Give them a taste of Islamic Law. Infidels can say allahu akbar while beheading them and quote quran 8:12 whikle doing it. Tell them we will get their big breasted white virgins and 28 white boys who never bleed. Muslims need a taste of their own medicine. I WILL NEVER SUBMIT to no low down dirty minded cult from an impotent Arab who thought of himself as god. Allah is a Sanskrit word, male and female. The Hindus had names for their gods. Muslims had no name for their allah. ISLAM, THE CULT WHO SERVES A GOD WITH NO NAME!
This sort of relativism (by
This sort of relativism (by the German judge) is exactly the sort of thing that must be resisted.
In western Countries we are all supposed to be "equal before the law". We must not allow a '1984' situation where 'some are more equal than others' to take hold. Crime is the breaking of the law. Law MUST NOT take notice of a person's race, religion, caste or creed.
Charlie: Shamsher is not Fascist - over strong in his statements perhaps, provocative, maybe even inflammatory (at times), but not fascist. Europeans of my generation were taught what 'Fascist' really was - and Shamsher is not.
Islamic contributions? Well, at the least they preserved the knowledge of the Greek and Romans until the Enlightenment.
They did push forward medical knowledge, mathematics (once they borrowed '0' from India) and astronomy. But then it all fell away as the Mullahs tightened their grip on the brains of the Muslims. (It is worth remembering that many of their most famous philosopher/scientists were regarded as heretics/apostates in their day!)
I totally agree with Free Spirit - well put. That's back to the equality before the law point - which Sharia expressly denies.
Charlie wrote: I think your
Charlie wrote:
I think your views are fascist Shamsher. Islamic people too have contributed for the development of the US as well as Europe. Some of them may have been misled now by extreme views, but let us not blame the whole for the deeds of part.
LOL.
Raisin Head wrote: wHAT DID
Raisin Head wrote:
wHAT DID ONE MUSLIM INVENT?
NAME ONE THING? NOT EVEN SUICIDE!
Raisin you are wrong. Islam did invent one thing: Holy War.
"The German judge argued,
"The German judge argued, “Muslims have a different understanding of rape than Europeans, and this must be taken into account.”
Rape is rape you moron and it does not matter what the Muslims say. Any man who forces himself unto a woman is a rapist and a criminal and the woman is the victim, not an adulterer.
This nothing but moral relativism stupidity at it's best.
Moral relativism, multiculturalism, and political correctness have created a huge nightmare in Germany and other parts of Europe.
#23 you know muslims rape
#23 you know muslims rape differently. (smile) How stupid that judge is. If a Aztec Indians raped him and a Muslims raped him he was still raped in the butt.
Muslims rename thing like pedophilia (ashnas) women, property to be raped anyway. when Muslim women came to Pro. Mo and asked for the men to stop anal sex, Mo said men can do whatever they wanted to with them. He made sure women got no pleasure out of sex by saying to the women who cut out the vaginas of girls, "don't cut too much". That man was insane and people who follow this insanity are just as guilty as prophet mo.
Raisin Head wrote: That man
Raisin Head wrote:
That man was insane and people who follow this insanity are just as guilty as prophet mo.
Agree.
A Scottish judge allowed a
A Scottish judge allowed a Muslim husband to retain his license after he was booked for driving 64 mph in a 30 mph zone. “He has one wife in Motherwell
and another in Glasgow and sleeps with one one night and stays with the other the next on an alternate basis,” argued Mohammed Anwar’s lawyer. “Without his driving license, he would be unable to do this on a regular basis.”
extract from trumpet weekly
Raisin Head says . If a
Raisin Head says
. If a Aztec Indians raped him and a Muslims raped him he was still raped in the butt.
lol, that was funny
Until recently I had high
Until recently I had high regard for the white people of Europe because it is they who dominated and colonised the rest of the world during the last many centuries.
But when I read in FFI that these supposed brainy people succumb to Islam, I doubt very much their wisdom and knowledge and now have a strange feeling that these very white people might actually be below the scumbag muslims of Arabia. Think of Europe becoming Eurabia!!!
May be Dr. Sami Alrabaa want
May be Dr. Sami Alrabaa want the law in the bible being applied in Germany.
Let check what the law in the bible for ladies who is being rape
Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker? Answer: God.
Death to the Rape Victim (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)
If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.
Let compare laws regarding women in bible and Al Quran
WOMEN IN ISLAM VERSUS WOMEN IN THE JUDAEO-CHRISTIAN TRADITION:
http://www.themodernreligion.com/women/w_comparison_full.htm
[...] Sharia Infiltrates
[...] Sharia Infiltrates German Courts, Schools, and Ministry of Foreign Affairs Dr. Sami Alrabaa [...]
Sura 2:257 says there is no
Sura 2:257 says there is no compulsion IN Islam. That is true because Muslims are already in Islam so they went by birth or conversion. Once in this organization, there is no compulsion. They are slick in words. We have to be slicker. Islam is made up of the desires and crazy, insane words of muhammad who became allah. He knew the stone idols could do nothing and he became allah. the Arabs were uneducated, unlike the Jews and christians around them. He used this to say Arabs are the best of mankind-Tabari 11.
Allah lost today. The American was freed. THE AMERICAN INFIDEL WAS FREED. ALLAH LOST Again. Obama has not said a word as of now. Not one congratulation. The Somalis will lose again and will be killed. Ships will carry armed guards who will shoot them. Some American Somalis, after being educated went to Somali to die for Allah's jihad. Mosques should be shut down. Why bring that mess to America. Appeasement does not work. Islam only appreciates force. Jesusnever said one cannot defend themselves, just dont attack others, like Muhammad did and his minions of 1 billion. Mooslims please stay home! MOOSLIMS GO HOME!
#29 arah YOU LOSE THIS
#29 arah
YOU LOSE THIS DEBATE BECAUSE THE ot IS NOT FOR CHRISTIANS BUT WAS ONLY FOR THE iSRALITES UNDER THE LAW OF MOSES WHICH IS NOW OBSOLETE.
You quoted the OT which only applied to the Jews which Muhammad tried to copy. Muhammad hated women and only saw them for sex and cooking and cleaning. Muhammad said no pork, but the same verse in the OT for Jews said no camel also, but prophet Mo said drink camel milk and piss, IS THIS YOUR DRINK? mOHAMMAD SAID HE WAS FROM iSHAMEL WHO WAS NOT GIVEN THE LAW OF MOSES WHO CAME FROM ISAAC. ISLAM IS INDEEED DECEITFUL!
arah lost the debate because
arah lost the debate because those commandments are descriptive not prescriptive ( meaning they are not commandments for generations for Jews to follow ) and were never meant to be permanent commandments. The only law that is permanent is the ten commandments.
Besides arah has no understanding of the Bible and Jesus relationship to the law or Christian teachings.
In order to support the
In order to support the biblical trash, you people are trying all tricks.It's a fact that there are words to that effect written in bible.Old or new testicle, applicable to only israelites or to all is not an issue for discussion.The good thing to look at is that bible is not demanding the vistim be stoned to death.At the least bible is trying to ensure a decent life to the rape vistim.
Whta does islam teach? Stone the girl to death adn let the man go ! Let him repeat the same crime.Allah is all forgiving.
Islam is evil to the core.Islamic stink is reaching every nook and corner of the world. Stop supporting islam.You automatically become a good human being.
Proudkafir wrote: In order
Proudkafir wrote:
In order to support the biblical trash, you people are trying all tricks.
Oh bite me old man. Stoning, rape, murder, and exc. was never seen as something glorious in Judaism and Christians did commit violence against nonchristians, even though the basic tenets of the Christian faith did not promote violence.
Lets just stick to fighting Islam.
The proof of the eating is in
The proof of the eating is in the pudding!
Christians were brutal on non christians.But that's not the fault of Bible.My my.Agreed bible does not teach you to stone rape victim to death. Or does it???? OT is bible and god's words are not? Please decide among the 37000 and odd sects of christianity, whether OT( old testicle) has any relevance to the Brand New testicle! or not.
I would say bible teaches many things evil and impractical.At least the christians are brain dead unlike moslems.Hence bible is not followed word to word!
Sorry meant to say"
Sorry meant to say" christians are not brain dead ,unlike moslems"
Hmm let us see if our dear
Hmm let us see if our dear christian friends can explain the exact meaning of these words as they appear in Bible. To my mind rape is rape.Forcible, unrequested/unrequired sexual entry. Can you please explain to me if there is a translation, transliteration or understanding or comprehending problem?
The meaning of these evil statements by god.
They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.
Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.??? Dear marie can you please elaborate the meaning of this??? Was god suggesting that they can keep virgins as personal secretaries??? for use as computer assistants?
Clearly Moses and God approves of rape of virgins.
3) More Murder Rape and Pillage (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)
As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.! My dear marie can you please elucidate the exact erudite meaning of enjoy????
What kind of God approves of murder, rape, and slavery?
4) Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
5) Death to the Rape Victim (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)
If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.Death for rape?? To a man I support, but what's the fault of the woman here?? explain please.
It is clear that God doesn't give a damn about the rape victim. He is only concerned about the violation of another mans "property".
6) David's Punishment - Polygamy, Rape, Baby Killing, and God's "Forgiveness" (2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB)
Thus says the Lord: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.'
Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord." Nathan answered David: "The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die." [The child dies seven days later.]
This has got to be one of the sickest quotes of the Bible. God himself brings the completely innocent rape victims to the rapist. What kind of pathetic loser would do something so evil? And then he kills a child! This is sick, really sick!
7) Rape of Female Captives (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)
"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."
Rape is rape. Or is it that a moslems rapes differently compared to a biblical nut case???
No nonsense explanation please
Dear marie I am still waiting
Dear marie I am still waiting for your erudite explanation
Proudkafir wrote: Dear marie
Proudkafir wrote:
Dear marie I am still waiting for your erudite explanation
They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.
Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. “Why have you let all the women live?” he demanded. “These are the very ones who followed Balaam’s advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD’s people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.??? Dear marie can you please elaborate the meaning of this??? Was god suggesting that they can keep virgins as personal secretaries??? for use as computer assistants?
Clearly Moses and God approves of rape of virgins.
PK I now how that verse sounds because I used to interpreted it in the same way. The reason why all the virgins were spared was because there virginity was proof they did not take part in the evil practices of their people. Archaeology confirms that many of the people of Biblical times took part in practices that are considered immoral and wicked ( having sex with animals, incest, human sacrifice and exc. ) That is the reason why the killed all the women who slept with a man ( meaning they took part in those practices ) and all the boys. They allowed the virgins to live and stay with them. The Biblical God only wanted to wipe out the evil in the land of Israel.
Now I know you are not going to believe and accuse me of lying, but that is my explanation.
“When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive’s garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion.”
Here's the last bit of that verse from the NIV, which you omitted: Since you have dishonored her ( meaning humiliated her, meaning she is disgraced )
4) Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
5) Death to the Rape Victim (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)
The girl in Deuteronomy 22:23-24 is not considered a rape victim in this description because she did not scream, meaning she did not fight. No I am advocating the girl deserved to be stoned!
Here's my response to the rest of the verse:
Genesis 34:1-4
Now Dinah, the daughter Leah had born to Jacob, went out to visit the women of the land. When Shechem son of Hamor, the Hivite, the ruler of that area saw her, he took her and violated her. His heart was drawn to Dinah the daughter of Jacob and he loved the girl and spoke tenderly to her. And Shachem said to his fathe Hamor, Get me this girl as my wife.
Genesis 34:8-9
But Hamor said to them, my son shechem has his heart set on your daughter. Please give her to us as his wife.
Genesis 34:11-12
Then shechem said to Dinah's father and brothers, let me find favor in your eyes, and I will give you whatever you ask. Make the price for the bride and the gift I am to bring as great as you like, and I will pay whatever you ask me. Only give this girl as my wife.
Genesis 34: 25-26
Three days later, while all of them were still in pain, two of Jacob's sons Simeon and Levi, Dinah's brothers, took their swords and attack the unsuspecting city, killing every male. They put Hamor and his son Shechem to the sword and took Dinah from Shechem's house and left.
Now to get to the gist my response:
Genesis 34:30-31
Then Jacob said to Simeon and Levi, you have brought trouble on me by making me a stench to the Canaanites and Perizzites, the people living in this land. We are few in number and if they join forces against me and attack me, I and my household will be destroyed. But they replied, should we have treated our sister like a prostitute!
Basically the Bible recognizes that forcing a women to marry her rapist, is a humiliating thing.
As for Samuel 12:11-14
God is not advocating rape, it means that his wives will have affairs other men in broad day-light so that everyone will now what is going on and will bring shame and dishonor to the hous of David. As for David's son, David was made to suffer the disciplinary results of his sin and unfortunately someone had to pay. David blames himself for his child's death.
See the deluded mind in
See the deluded mind in action! A merciful can not condone rape! Can not encourage rape. Who is to test the virginity of these girls? Some special test available to prove?
@proudkafir. Some days ago
@proudkafir.
Some days ago someone here on FFI told marie to complete the job of calling a spade a spade, i.e both Islam and Christianity are evil, the poster made mention of her understanding and compassion towards the victims of Islam, but it beats the hell out of me how these otherwise nice human beings can stoop so low by defending psychotic imaginary beings whose sole pleasure is the bullying of mere defenceless little humans who were created by the same bully gods.
It is really pitiful for a grown up to throw away reason, to glorify him/herself with clear supersitition, to be arrogant enough to discard all the overwhelming evidences against their gods, to refuse to be scholarly enough to understand that god is not disproven but unproven, to be selfish enough to think all other humans are not on the right path except his/her's, in fact I am tempted to say anyone who willingly believes that evil will befall those who believe differently from him/herself whether in this world or the so called next world is evil, delusion remains delusion before contrary evidence, facts and reason are shown to the deluded, persistence after this, means willingness to be selfish and ultimately evil.
Dear BD ( you are indeed
Dear BD ( you are indeed divine!)
What amuses me and at times irritates me is people are perfectly sensible and sane when criticising the other's religion.But the sooner you touch one' own religion the true self , asinine and absurd, stupid and silly, idiotic and idiosyncratic self manifests.I used to think that this trait is more manifest among moslems and usually the so called christians are above this.I guess I am sadly incorrect. Moslems tend to be violent as well unlike christians, but both are equally deluded.
When I was a 10 year old boy, I used to tease my mother about god.If I dont read the book, will your god clear my exams? If i read only a few chapters and and pray to god will god ensure that the questions will be from the same chapter? etc
You know the answer from my mother? She will say, Do your duty first ( Ie read first) and then if you still have time pray to god! Duty is god she would say.How true.She would never ever give asinine reasons to support god God does not need absurdities to be explained.
Although, I admit that this lady marie is a fairly decent lady, inspite fo not having given me the correct response due to delusion.
@PK Am sadly incorrect in
@PK
Am sadly incorrect in that assumption too, how can one see the foolishness of the koran at the same time see nothing evil and foolish in the bible??
Hey you've got a nice role model, very cute answers from her, wish I had the same, well anyhow, I managed to get away from the totally wacked out concept of religion, maybe the true motherly way she brought you up has helped in turning you into this tactful warrior for human decency, but cosidering your contributions here, I don't think the shackles of bigotry could hold you forever, a fight against Islam is a most, just yesterday I heard another girl's sad story about the Islamic marital saga.
Marie or any deluded person can not give you a correct answer because the positive explanation of the violent and evil koran/bible verses is non-existent, all there is from the apologist is the deluded way of turning black into white in a snap, sorry folks, magicians have their tricks, this is not about tricks, it is about human daily suffering..have a great one.
Dear PK & BD, Just
Dear PK & BD,
Just check out this video.It is satire,but shows the God of the bible can be petty. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urlTBBKTO68&feature=channel_page
Proudkafir wrote: See the
Proudkafir wrote:
See the deluded mind in action! A merciful can not condone rape! Can not encourage rape. Who is to test the virginity of these girls? Some special test available to prove?
The women of the camp. It is forbidden for Jewish men to touch a women like that.
I am not condoning rape and neither does the Bible. In Biblical times rape victim was seen as someone who has been disgraced, dishonored, unmarriagable, and exc.
Here's something from
Here's something from Deutoronomy 22:25 which you omitted out:
But if out in the country a man happens to meet a girl pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. DO nothing to the girl, she has committed no sin deserving death. This is the case that of someone who attacks and murders his neighbor, for the man found the girl out in the country and though the betrothed girl screamed, there was no one to rescue her.
In verse 23-24 it states if a man rapes a woman in town and does not scream, stone them to death because there was people there to help the woman and she did not do anything to get there attention.
As for verse 28, this law warned young men that they would be made responsible for their actions.
PK why are you wasting your time arguing with me when you know it will lead to nowhere? Also why don't you just admit your hatred for Christians?
By the way I am in no
By the way I am in no advocating stoning women.
Here's more of what the Bible says about stoning:
John 8:3-11
The teachers of the law and the pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the law of Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say? They were using this question as trap, in order to have basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, if anyone of you is without sin, let him be the first one to throw the first stone at her. Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you? No one, sir, she said. Then neither do I condemn you, Jesus declared. Go now and leave your life of sin.
The stoning and rape laws in Deutoronomy 22 were meant to keep the Jews from doing such things.