Sachar Committee Report Uncovered Backwardness of India’s Muslims, Part 3
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Anti-India Jihadi Mindset of India’s Muslims
It has been pointed out earlier that, after the present Congress Party led United Progressive Alliance (UPA) Government came into power, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh appointed a high level committee in March 2005, under the chairmanship of the retired Supreme Court Judge Justice Rajinder Sachar, to investigate the social, economic and educational status of Indian Muslims. Before proceeding further, let us make it clear, first, what inspired the ruling Congress Party to set up a committee to investigate the social, educational, financial and other aspects of the Muslim community and second, what is the real agenda of India's Muslims?
It is pertinent to point out beforehand that it was not a genuine aspiration to improve the lot of the Muslim masses that had inspired PM Singh to appoint the Sachar Committee. The leading Congress Party claims itself to be a secular party and in India secularism has become a euphemism for the appeasement of Muslim; the so-called secular political parties, in the name of secularism, resort to rampant appeasement of Muslims to secure their votes. The Sachar Committee was supposed to prepare a report according to the guideline set by the Congress Party, the biggest secular party and player in this Muslim appeasement game. Congress Party's objective was to increase its Muslim appeasement, under the cover of the Sachar Committee recommendations, so as to hoodwink the non-Muslim citizenry. By hook or by crook, Muslim votes, which is instrumental for remaining in power, must be secured.
It is to be noted here that in the West, the so-called liberal politicians have also started appeasing Muslims for securing their votes to win elections. The introduction of a Sharia court in the UK and the government's barring of Geert Wilders' entry into the country are burning examples. “I was invited to give a speech in the House of Lords. However, upon arrival at Heathrow airport, I was refused entry into the UK , and sent back to the Netherlands ”, said Mr Wilders. “Just like the British ban, the decision of the Amsterdam Court of Appeals to prosecute me for Fitna and my views on Islam, is a major blow dealt to freedom of speech in Europe . They are full-fledged attacks on freedom of speech in order to appease Muslims”, he added.
It is well known that Islam is devoid of concepts like nationalism, nationality, patriotism and so on. Instead, the Muslims believe in worldwide Islamic solidarity or Islamic ummah. As a result, the entire Muslim population living in India are not Indians and, at best, they may be called “resident non-Indians”. They have no loyalty and respect for India ; they are loyal, first and foremost, to Islam and then to Allah. Though they live in India and sustain on its natural resources, their loyalty lies firstly with Pakistan and then with Arabia . In the Muslim eye, India is not his own country or his motherland; it is simply a dar-ul-harb, or a land of warfare and bloodshed, which is to be conquered for Islam to turn it into a dar-ul-Islam. India is a land where darkness of ignorance or jahelia still prevails, because Sharia law has not yet been implemented here. They would consider India to be their own country only when it has been thoroughly Islamized and turned into a dar-ul-Islam by enforcing the Sharia, the divine law of Allah.
So, all pious Muslims of India, in their inner core, hate to live in India , hate to coexist with the Hindu and other kafirs, who, according to the Koran, are Islam's enemies. They aspire for the day when Muslims would conquer and rule this country and when all the kafirs would either be slaughtered en masse or converted to Islam. They would consider India as their own country when Sharia would guide India ’s legal and administrative systems and Islamic system of education or madrassa system would replace the present secular system of education.
On the contrary, the Hindus consider India as their motherland, strive hard to bring prosperity to, and to enrich and glorify, their motherland. They, therefore, aim to get good education and become creative people and responsible citizens of India . And, for a pious Muslim mind, India is not his motherland, yet to be his own country. They do not treasure the glory of India , but dream for its conquest someday. So long they cannot conquer India , they should continue and intensify their jihad or to cause any damage they can by blowing off buildings, railways, bridges and other national assets by subversive activities and killing the kafirs.
For them, receiving education is not of immediate necessity, but to maintain a jihadi mindset for the future conquest of India as the utmost necessity.. They establish Islamic schools, the madrasas, and send their kids there. These learners come out with their minds imbued with the jihadi teachings of the Koran and Hadith and most of them take up the jihadi course: acquire weapons and explosives to engage in subversive terror activities. So, these madrasas are nothing but factories for producing terrorists.
Low Levels of Education among the Muslims
It is not difficult to understand that such a jihadi mindset turns the Muslims of India into intellectually crippled people, who fail to emerge as forerunners in the field of knowledge and creativity. This is confined not to India alone. Muslims are backward in education and in all other walks of life everywhere in this world. American journalist Alex Perry, to narrate the backwardness of India ’s Muslims, writes,
“Indian Muslims today are less educated, poorer and live shorter, less secure and less healthy lives than their Hindu counterparts. Census figures paint a bleak picture of their plight. In rural India , 29% of Muslims earn less than $6 a month, compared with 26% of Hindus; in the cities (where a third of all Muslims live) the gap rises to 40% vs. 22%. Some 13% of India 's population is Muslim, yet Muslims account for just 3% of government employees, and an even smaller percentage are employed by private Hindu businesses. Meanwhile, in the cities, 30% of Muslims are illiterate, vs. 19% of Hindus.” (TIME, Aug 4, 2003).
In India , 59.1 percent Muslims are literate, whereas the general rate of literacy is 64.8 per cent. Though the rate of literacy is not so gloomy, most of the Muslim learners do not attend schools beyond 3rd or 4th class standard. So the Sachar Committee Report says, “As mentioned earlier, education is an area of grave concern for the Muslim Community. … The recognition of their educational backwardness is quite acute amongst a large section of Indian Muslims and they wish to rectify it urgently.” (The phrase “they wish to rectify it urgently” is a lie.) …. Relying predominantly on Madarsa and denominational institutions for improving the educational status of Muslims was also seen by some as violating the spirit of the Constitution.” To hide the real cause, the jihadi mindset of Muslims, for their low profile in education, the Committee writes,
“Poverty—the Main Cause of Low levels of Education.”
To describe this poverty, the Committee says,
“Indian Muslims today are less educated, poorer and live shorter, less secure and less healthy lives than their Hindu counterparts. Census figures paint a bleak picture of their plight. In rural India , 29% of Muslims earn less than $6 a month, compared with 26% of Hindus; in the cities (where a third of all Muslims live) the gap rises to 40% vs. 22%. Some 13% of India 's population is Muslim, yet Muslims account for just 3% of government employees, and an even smaller percentage are employed by private Hindu businesses. Meanwhile, in the cities, 30% of Muslims are illiterate, vs. 19% of Hindus. Nor are any of these indices improving.”
The poverty is one of the reasons, no doubt, but the reader should recall that their effort to swell their population by unbridled procreation is one of the major reasons of that poverty. In this regard, the Report says. “High dropout rates among Muslim students are worrisome. As with many Indians, the main reason for educational backwardness of Muslims is abject poverty due to which children are forced to drop out after the first few classes. This is particularly true for Muslim girls. Little children are expected to provide for their families by working in karkhanas (small workshops), as domestic help or by looking after their siblings while their mothers go to work. It was felt that the incidence of child labour was much higher among Muslims as compared to other SRCs (Socio Religious Communities). Poor and illiterate parents cannot afford tuition for their children; nor can they provide the necessary support system at home which has become so essential a part of today’s educational system.”
As a consequence, the presence of Muslims in the area of higher education is negligible. To highlight this aspect, a report in the Indian Express, a reputed English daily, says,
“The Sachar Committee has uncovered a more worrying trend in the IIMs (Indian Institute of Management) and IITs (Indian Institute of Technology), Muslim students make only 1.3% and 1.7% respectively. Data collected by the Committee for 5 IIMs for 2004-05 and 2005-06 puts the Muslim count at 1.3% or 63 in a total of 4743 students. The Committee did not have socio-religious break-up of the number of students who take the Common Admission Test (CAT) since no such data is collected. But on the basis of data available for all levels of the examination – the written test, the interview that follows and the group discussion – the Committee has concluded that while the success rate for Muslim candidates is better than for other communities (a strike rate of “one out of three”) yet, in the final list, only 1.3 per cent of those who make it are Muslims.. As far as the IITs go, of the existing 27,161 IITians, only 894 are Muslims. At the under-graduate level, only 1.7% are Muslims. Though the percentage gets better at the higher stages – about 4% - it’s still much lower than their population share.”
While commenting on this aspect, the educationist Anil Sadgopal says he is
“not surprised at the low figures for Muslims... I am sure the figures for Dalits and tribals are in the same range. With a high drop-out rate for Dalits, tribals and Muslims, how will they ever reach the level of being able to compete for seats in elite institutions like these? When only 5-6 percent of the school-going and tribals reach Class XII, with Muslims, being in the same range, how will a decent percentage of these make it to elite lists? The problem is the lack of a good and equitable school system. If that’s not rectified, then most Muslims, Dalits and tribals will get filtered out at the school level itself”
The following table reflects the presence of Muslim students in undergraduate studies:
TABLE – I. Students Enrolled In Undergraduate Courses 2004-05 (%)
Subject General SC/ST OBC Muslims
Arts 45 25 20 10
Commerce 60 15 15 10
Science 50 20 20 10
Engineering 34 15 15 9
Medical 65 15 15 5
SC – Scheduled Castes
ST – Scheduled Tribes
OBC – Other Backward Castes
To hide the real reason and to hold poverty and some other ridiculous and fabricated factors responsible for dismal levels of education amongst Muslims, the Report continues,
“Government schools that do exist in Muslim neighborhoods are merely centres of low quality education for the poor and marginalized. The poor quality of teaching, learning, absentee teachers, in turn, necessitate high cost inputs like private tuitions, particularly in the case of first generation learners from the Muslim community. This has a negative impact on retention and school completion. Thus, poverty again has a causal link with access to education among Muslims.”
It has been pointed out earlier that the Sachar Committee was appointed by a government, whose sole intention is to remain in power with Muslim votes and hence to appease them. Bashing the Hindus (to please the Muslims) is another part of this farce. The Committee has tried to hold the Hindus responsible for the Muslim backwardness in education. So the report says,
“The ’communal’ content of school textbooks, as well as, the school ethos has been a major cause for concern for Muslims in some states. This is disconcerting for the school going Muslim child who finds a complete absence of any representation of her Community in the school text. Moreover, many schools are culturally hostile and Muslim students experience an atmosphere of marginalization and discrimination. Subtle deterrents to school admissions have already been mentioned.”
The Committee continues,
“A growing communal mindset among large number of school teachers adds to the ‘hostile’ school atmosphere. The distrust levels can be gauged from the fact that people actually believe that schools in some states have been given instructions to not let Muslim students pass in examinations. It is also alleged that it is not easy for Muslims to get jobs as teachers. Besides, Muslim teachers are often treated badly. The transfer of Muslim teachers to schools at a great distance is not uncommon. Discriminatory stoppage of salaries of Muslim teachers has also been alleged. It has been reported that in some locations, Hindu parents refuse to let their children go to schools where there are Muslim teachers.”
Madrasa Education
As noted already, Muslims, preferring to educate their children with the jihadi Islamic teaching, enroll their children into madrasas. Most madrasas, except those run by the government, teach nothing beyond the Koran and Hadith and that too in Arabic, which the learners understand little. Nonetheless, they learn the essence of Islam, like non-Muslims are despicable kafirs, Allah has ordained jihad against the kafirs to massacre them, rape their women, occupy their land, loot their wealth and other valuables and, thus, to conquer India for Islam. So, to speak the truth, these madrasas are nothing but factories for producing jihadi terrorists.
It has been said earlier that the Islamic clerics (mullahs) insist that Muslims send their kids to madrasas to become good Muslims, not necessarily good human beings. They despise secular education provided in regular schools and never prescribe such schools for Muslim kids. They are scared that Muslims may become enlightened by attending these schools and hence may start questioning Islam. Light of knowledge is always to be guarded against, because “Islam is total darkness and hence vulnerable to light.” But the apologetic Sachar Committee writes,
“Madarsas, through which the Community ensures that its future generations acquire knowledge of Islam, have become a symbol of Muslim identity in India . Often they are looked upon with suspicion by the wider society, despite the fact that they are involved in providing religious education to the Muslim community. Labeling of Madarsas as a den for terrorists is extremely worrisome for the Muslim community. Even though there has been no evidence to suggest that Madarsas are producing terrorists they are constantly under scrutiny. This exercise, even as it is insulting to the Community, has a detrimental and traumatic impact on the children studying in the Madarsas.”
The report continues,
“It has been pointed out that the existence of Madarsas (though not as a substitute for regular schools) is necessary for Muslims as, apart from providing basic education, they serve as an important instrument of identity maintenance for the Community. Many a time Madarsas are the only educational option available to Muslim children, especially in areas where no schools have reached the Muslim masses. Very often children go to the Madarsas not out of choice but due to non-availability and inaccessibility of other schools, and a near absence of education in their mother tongue. Madarsas, where they operate are rendering useful service as far as literacy is concerned. However, there is an urgent need to recognize that a very small percentage of Muslim children actually attend Madarsa education.”
From the above rhetoric, it is not difficult for readers to gauge the effort of the authors of the Report not only to hide, but also to encourage, the jihadi mindset of Muslims.
Several state governments have tried hard to modernize madrasa education with the introduction of science, mathematics and computer education, but all such efforts failed due to violent opposition by the mullahs. So the Report says,
“Modernizing Madarsas by the government has been a very contentious issue with many differing viewpoints amongst the Community. While there is a general acceptance of an urgent need for the modernization of Madarsas, the modernization scheme of the government have not really provided much relief to the community as far as quality education is concerned. Promises made with regard to modernization have proved inadequate as nothing much has been done."
On the contrary, to hide the real hindrance, the jihadi mindset of the Muslims, the Committee imports totally baseless excuses and writes,
“Science and Mathematics teachers appointed under this scheme have not been paid their salaries regularly. Besides, the salaries fixed are too low. It is widely believed that the help given to Madarsas is “on paper alone”. Giving computers to Madarsas has not been perceived to be of great help to the Community. Rather, it was suggested, provision should be made for teaching science, mathematics and English. Provision of a recurring grant for Madarsas would help. However, Madarsa ‘modernisation’ does not mean only having science/mathematics teachers and installing computers. As mentioned earlier Madarsas need to be affiliated to/recognized by regular education boards. Employability is often not provided by the Madarsas, and they would become ‘modern’ only when that issue is taken care of. The need for mainstream schools to provide free and compulsory education (which is the responsibility of the State) cannot be overlooked. ‘Reform’ of Madarsas and providing education through mainstream schools are not substitute strategies.”
So, it can be said that the Muslims of India are backward, like the Muslims of other countries, because they prefer to remain backward for the sake of Islam.
(To be continued)
Whats the point in writing
Whats the point in writing about the sachar ? shuochalaya committee( tiolet committee)?
The rajinder has sold his mother for few rupees in pakisthan market and is now motherless.
Followers of one of the most scientific and forward religion of a pedophile rapist prophet are back ward??? My oh my.Ghosh how can it be?
Simply put moslems are idiotic arseholes with no brains and procreate the same type of idiotic moslems in larger number.Ham panch and hamara pachees! ( we are 5 idiotic moslems 1 stif dik moslem and 4 wives and we have 25 piglet moslem children) is the mantra of moslem pigs.
The Christian British
The Christian British Bastards groomed the present GandHi Nehru dynastic rulers lead Corrupt Congress party . Congress party true to their British mentors following the same rule : Divide and Rule policy.
"" The leading Congress Party claims itself to be a secular party and in India secularism has become a euphemism for the appeasement of Muslim; the so-called secular political parties, in the name of secularism, resort to rampant appeasement of Muslims to secure their votes. ""
The reason , why any one wants to Appease the degenerate Muslims is : Muslims are not human beings, they are like the Scavenger Crows. Crows live and believe in groupism , just like the Muslims. Muslim scavengers get together during Friday prayers the same way as the scavenging crows gather around a garbage pile. Same thing holds good for the scavenging Christian rabid dogs on every Sundays.
Fact is all scavengers are SECULAR in nature. They are Omnivorous they never discriminate between natural food and garbage , and that is the only secularity one can find among those Scavengers.
Indian Politicians, particularly Corrupt Congress party leaders are the devout followers of British Christians Divide and Rule policy: are also Scavengers. It is the vote to power what matters, they don't care about the nature of the vote. Any vote will do as long as that help them to come to power.
Fact is those scavengers are more like parasites who live on their hosts and kill the host as well as themselves in the end.
===On the contrary, the Hindus consider India as their motherland, strive hard to bring prosperity to, and to enrich and glorify, their motherland. They, therefore, aim to get good education and become creative people and responsible citizens of India===
That is the only problem with the Indian Hindus: They are too Humane to fight inhumanities like Islam and Christianity.
Present day Indian Hindus should follow the example of Vikramaditya .
""According to the Brihat-Katha-Manjari of the Kashmiri Pandit Kshmendra, king Vikramaditya (Chandragupta II) had "unburdened the sacred earth of the Barbarians like the Shakas, Mlecchas, Kambojas, Yavanas, Tusharas, Parasikas, Hunas, etc. by annihilating these sinful Mlecchas completely" "
" Mlecchas," means the Degenerates, present day Muslims and Christians who are degenerates as they practice same blood coitus, Cousin marriage.
One does not need a retired
One does not need a retired Supreme Court Judge to waste so many years and a huge amount of taxpayer's money to tell us the reason why Muslims are so backward in India. The problem is that Muslims just cannot adjust to the idea that they are no more the rulers of India. They feel a sort of kinship with the barbaric hordes that arrived in India from the Central Asian steppes and Arabia.
Ask any Muslim in India and most probably he will tell you that he is somehow related to Mir Kasim.
This combined with the pathological hatred of Hindus makes Muslims so regressive in the way they think that they are bound to be backward. Infact it is the weakness of Hindu leaders that they could not bring all the Muslims back to the Hindu fold even after 60 years of Indepence. Till very recently Muslims from states like Rajasthan, Haryana, etc kept Hindu names and maintained many Hindu pratices. Had they been converted out of Islam at that time things would have been much easier on India. Today these very Muslims after going to the Gulf countries for jobs have become concious of the Islamic image. They don't maintain Hindu names or pratices anymore. Just like the Muslims of Uttar Pradesh and Kerela, they have become extremely hateful of the Hindus.
Hindus are very good at making exuses for their own pathetic behaviour. Even after being slaves of Muslims for 600 years they refuse to see the truth. Their leaders have no love for their own community and yet the Hindus follow such people without hesitation.
This is blaming the India
This is blaming the India Govt. and Hindus for the things done by Muslims to themselves.
Why did Pakistan collapse when it was separate ISLAMIC democratic state.
ISLAM is not civilized religion and wherever it goes it will create a desert hell of any green land.
The only way to save yourself is to get rid of all the MUHA-MAD followers from the face of the earth.
# 3. ibrahim says ; """The
# 3. ibrahim says ;
"""The problem is that Muslims just cannot adjust to the idea that they are no more the rulers of India."""
And the Christian British rulers wanted the Indian Muslims to think that way " Divide and Rule"
I personally don't think , there are different kind of Muslims . But when one looks at India : India has some thing extraordinary about herself .Even the inhuman Muslims and Christians behave like Human beings while in India.
For more than last 700 years both the evil cults( Islam and Christianity) have tried their best to destroy India and its Root"the Vedic way of life" without any success.
No Evil Cults like Islam and Christianity can ever reach the the core, the root of Vedic way of life to destroy it.
Those Cults are like a doll made of salt dived in to the sea, trying to fathom the depth of the sea and never comes back to tell you how deep it was. As it melts and merges in to the sea itself.
.
A0000Z Says: No Evil Cults
A0000Z Says:
No Evil Cults like Islam and Christianity can ever reach the the core, the root of Vedic way of life to destroy it.
Quit living in a dreamworld mate, will you. Missionaries will get India faster than Muslims.
#6 wHY DO you all hate
#6 wHY DO you all hate Christiendom so badly. Did they invaded India and forced Chrisendomon you. I know the Brits were so-called christians, but didnt they stop Islam from killing all of you and left town in 1948. Didnt the Brits stop the complete destruction of India. Please explain to me what they did, becaUSE honestly, I do not know. It is the Christians duty to expose all people to the Gospel. All you have to say is we dont want Jesus. But then some of you might want Jesus and then the rest will say no way? Then you open up Hindus to being prejudiced.and racist.
"It has been said earlier
"It has been said earlier that the Islamic clerics (mullahs) insist that Muslims send their kids to madrasas to become good Muslims, not necessarily good human beings. They despise secular education provided in regular schools and never prescribe such schools for Muslim kids. They are scared that Muslims may become enlightened by attending these schools and hence may start questioning Islam. Light of knowledge is always to be guarded against, because “Islam is total darkness and hence vulnerable to light.” But the apologetic Sachar Committee writes,"
Therefore when they leave the madrasahs, they have no jobs skills or means to make a living.
Can anyone tell me if India has a welfare system or social services and the statistics on how many Muslims are dependent on this system in comparison with the rest of the population
Since when did christianity
Since when did christianity become a race??? being a Hindu and not necessarily liking the killin and rapin verses of evil twain of bible and qrand is being prejuidiced and racist! That speaks volumes about your closed and prejudiced biblically dulled mind.We have no problem in accepting the evil christians way of life as long as they dont harm the rest.The trouble is the evil twain of qrandik and biblical followers are creating more havoc and disturbance.the english slaves in india are not writing anything to expose the evil twain.I have been inside a church hundreds of times and have extremely good christian friends( white and non white) and they also understand the contradictions and asininities and absurdities of bible very well.At least I have made them see the difficulty in following the evil bible.They do understand the political expansionist nature of evil twain. Some have given up the twain and some by force of habit stick to the evil bible and qrand rituals..Infact I tell them to celebrate xmas! Its good to celebrate with some wine.
There was a protest when the wine shop was opened next to a church.My reaction was simple.If you can serve sacramental wine inside the church, where is the difficulty in selling the same out side the church??? Can you please tell me the problem? I can understand if it was a mosque as evil qrand forbids alchohol unlike the evil bible! If you ever come to India, take some time to visit the Goa and see for your self the destruction( attempt) of the temples by the evil catholics and go to some other places to see the destruction by evil protestents and go any where you will not miss the evil qrandic effects of destruction. inspite of having seen and understood the destructive power of the evil qrand and bible,I do not see these people as any thing other than children of the same super god.They are naughty and destructive.They have to be brought out of the grip of the evil books, qrand and bible.
There have been a lot of
There have been a lot of misconceptions about Christians with some Hindus equating Muslims with them. As an Indian Christian I wish to clarify certain issues with my Hindu friends.
There is no original Christian in India and all Christians here are converts for over three generations and more. This is the truth and it is for this reason that Christians are very patriotic and loyal to this country. You don’t find them supporting America or the United Kingdom. In fact several top BJP and RSS leaders have said on television that there is no doubt at all about the patriotism and loyalty of Christians to India. The only problem according to them is the issue of conversion.
As for conversion, there are fake godmen in every religion and Christianity is no different. There have been a few cases in remote villages but major churches have had nothing to do with them. This is very difficult to prove this because there is never any investigation and major churches are blamed. Christians have not multiplied like Muslims because they don't have a political agenda like them.
It is wrong to blame Indian Christians for what the British did as imperialism was a reality back then and India was one of colonies under British rule.
Hindus and Christians have co existed peacefully for generations. It would not be an exaggeration to state that Indian Christians love the Hindus and hate Muslims. Most Christians live in Hindu localities, have mostly Hindu friends and almost all churches constructed post independence are in pre dominantly Hindu areas. Many Christian families (if you care to check) follow Hindu customs and traditions. Many older generation Christians know the Ramayana and the Mahabharata better that Hindus.
The BJP initially clubbed all minorities together assuming they were all against them. They were right about the Muslims who don’t like the BJP even today. With Christians they made a mistake. When Christians like the Hindus, why would they be against the BJP? But yes, when the BJP with its wrong assumption started harassing them, they turned to the Congress.
The BJP has always had the habit of biting first and asking questions later. With just a few political parties in the past the BJP thought Christian votes don’t matter much, but with today’s coalition politics where every vote counts, I feel the BJP has made a blunder. I am not trying to suggest that all Christians would’ve voted for the BJP, just as all Hindus don’t vote for them either, but many would have if they had understood the Christians better.
Even today whenever churches are attacked, Christians never blame Hindus, but blame the BJP and the Sangh Parivar. Christians are an educated lot and know that the Hindu community and the political outfits are two completely different entities. Contrast this to the Muslims who blame the Hindu community for everything. After the Babri Masjid episode Hindus became their enemies overnight. You don’t find swords, knives, guns and other weapons in churches while it’s a well known fact that all mosques keep a stockpile of weapons.
Muslims claim to have a rich legacy of mogul rule in India. What did they contribute really? White elephants like lavish palaces and tombs and mosques that served no social purpose then, and are just a burden on the exchequer today. The moguls fought Hindu kings, grabbed their land, took their women and looted them. Contrast this to the British who also looted India, but gave it the railways, education system, industries, health care, tea industry besides abolishing evil practices like the caste system, sati and child marriage. But yes, they had no business being in our country and had to be kicked out.
Like it was rightly pointed out, Muslims are not loyal to our country and they never will be. They have always been with Pakistan. How can we forget that these very Muslims who claim patriotism now were shamelessly hoisting the Pakistan national flag on our independence day? Can we forget that they were celebrating when Pakistan won cricket matches against India? That they openly supported Pakistan and Bangladesh during the wars that we fought with those countries?
They have now realized that Pakistan is not the “Janna” they assumed it to be, what with the economy in the doldrums, safety a major issue and the Taliban on their doorstep. This is the Muslim version of patriotism. I would call it shameless opportunism, cunning and a complete sham. India should realize that Muslims cannot be taken on face value.
Kindly do not club Christians with Muslims. They are a world apart.
Dear enlightened777 , even
Dear enlightened777 , even though I am not a Hindu still as an Indian I feel it is my duty that I do put forward my point of view.
What you are saying is partially correct. While a large number of Christians might be patriotic, you can undermine the fact many Christians are not at all patriotic. They try to bind ties with the Colonisers of India and don't indentify themselves with the British, Portugese as may be the case.
This is not the only thing that irks people, especially patriotic Indians like me. The Christian Missionaries from Europe are duly sheltered by the native Indian Christians. New areas for harvesting souls are found by the native Christains. In other words the native Christians do all the research work for the Evangelical missions from abroad.
Besides you have the Christian Ultras in the NE trying to rule by the Bible and forcibly converting people on gun point. In Kerela the Christian Missions are working overtime to undermine the native Hindu faith and always side with the Muslims on all matters. Not just in Kerela there is always a strange bed fellowship between Christians and Muslims on all matters. Combined togethere both Christians and Muslims don't leave a chance to batter the native faiths.
Let me remind you that it was the Christian Chruch which openly criticised Ram Dev for inviting Christians for his Yoga classes. Infact the Chruch Padres went on (quite shamlessly) to the extent of saying that rather than use Vedic chants he should use Quranic Ayahs or maybe something from the Bible.
Now I am an atheist and yet I hold the Vedas in high regard bcos they were composed by my ancestors. They did subplanted from a desert and yet these retards of Padres have the guts to say this. Who the hell do they think they are.
If Christians in India don't change their attitutes, they will have to pay for it just like doom is impending on the Muslims in India.
While saying all this I would not like to forget that there have been some people from the Christian faith who have served India just as any follower of a native faith.
I hope now you know why Christians and Muslims are clubbed together in India.
As one of my friend's says: The Christian is the deadliest enemy of India, he will use trickery and trechery to attain his goal, the Muslims is simple and straighforward and will slice your thorat after warning you. So you see Christians are worse than Muslims when it comes to trechery.
Raisin Head Says: #6 wHY DO
Raisin Head Says:
#6 wHY DO you all hate Christiendom so badly. Did they invaded India and forced Chrisendomon you. I know the Brits were so-called christians, but didnt they stop Islam from killing all of you and left town in 1948. Didnt the Brits stop the complete destruction of India. Please explain to me what they did, becaUSE honestly, I do not know. It is the Christians duty to expose all people to the Gospel. All you have to say is we dont want Jesus. But then some of you might want Jesus and then the rest will say no way? Then you open up Hindus to being prejudiced.and racist.
Darling brits were not the only Christians who invaded India, the Portugese, the Dutch, the French all of them Invaded our shores at different times. Now who told you that they did not carryout mass conversions. Go to Goa and take a look at Christians have done there. Everey single chruch lies on the foudations of a Hindu or Jain temple. The protugese would force the local Brahmins to eat meat inorder to shame them. Young babies were snatched from their mothers and converted to Christianity.
Turn to Kerela and see what the Missionaries have done.
I wonder if you have ever been to dang, its a tribal area in Gujrat. 90% of its population is today Christian. All this happened in 10years. Do you think it was a miracle, no it was not. All thanks to the dollars coming from Rome these poor tribals were fooled into Chritanity. Hell these Missionaries even allowed idol worship till a generation went past by so that they could accomplish their aims.
Thanfully the VHP took notice and now a large number of these tribals have returned to the religion of their ancestors and have taken it on themselves to kick out the freaking Missionaries from their land.
Now as far as your explanations of Christianity and Christiandom are concerned Raisin head, we don;t care. We don;t have a meter to regonise Christianity or Christiandom. Both look same to us and if these Christiandom people of yours dont improve their bad habbits, they will have their asses kicked out of our country very soon.
I support enlightened777. He
I support enlightened777. He is right. At least Christians are patriotic. BJP should try to make friends with Christians . I am a Hindu from Kerala and I know that generally Christians are very good people.
Christians are very good
Christians are very good people!!!!!!!!! How true indeed. There are good people in islam as well.Right? What of abdul kalam? Moslem, no doubt by birth and hindu in practice. Does not know a word of arabic or urdu.Likes south indian classical music and dance and loves sambar and rice and papad the south indian brahmin way! He was made to wear the skull cap by politicians.
The problem is very complex.Many christians have been converted during the colonial rule.I am glad quite a few christians are realising this simple fact.earlier even mentioning this was considered communal.The syrian christians were running away from syria as the islamic goons persecuted them,The indians gave them place and support and made the persecuted people feel secure.What do Hindus get in return from christians ?
the lie that christians are the original inhabitants and are here from 30 AD! St thomas came to india and there is a St Thomas mount and St Thomas grave and what not.When the saint never ever came near India.All your missionaries and padres have been lying.You brown christians have never contradicted the lies perpetrated.Hindu religion was cursed and abused and you thought you
were whites! When you stupid christians realised that british are not going to take you all to the fairy land of ing lund , you were disappointed.I must agree partly with your observation that christians have not directly participated in any terrorist activities.We should be thankful that the bible thumping idiots are also not causing disturbance all over India.But just go to NE and see the menace of the evil bible.Its as bad if not worse than islamic evil.We are neither stupid nor cowards any more.We can beat you in your game of lies.We are not yet decided on terrorising as it's against the grains of hindu thought.We can not turn the other cheek.we did that, far too long with out saying so and gained nothing, but lost a lot of land and self respect and you slapped with out ever offering the other cheek, though kept repeating jesus says turn the other cheek.
Neither I consider the dead jew on the stick as divine nor the rapist pedophile bastard mohammad.
The truth is we are all children of the same god and we are geographically tied to the land.You can not escape to ing lund.You will be treated as 3rd class citizen even if you declare your christian roots.The west couldnt care less.The british were interested in using you idiots who got converted as a show piece to defame hinduism. I know that generally keralites are bad people!Simple I have had bad experiences with keralites of all denominations and does that make sense? You must be communist hindu with no sense of attachment to india, bit like yechuri and co.
As far as figures quoted by
As far as figures quoted by Ibrahim and others on Christian conversions in India go, I would like to clarify that those figures are fudged by certain political parties so that they can justify their violent acts. The figure of 90% of a village in Gujarat being converted is nothing but propaganda to mislead gullible people. Tell me honestly, do you believe such absurd statements? The percentage of Christians has remained more or less constant unlike Muslims who constitute nearly 20% of the population, thanks to their indiscriminate breeding habits.
It is true that there are isolated cases, but then they have to be dealt with on an individual basis. Can Ibrahim show me a single Christian who is not patriotic to India and supports America or any European country? Even in the west it is Muslims who go around with placards saying,” Islam will dominate the world” and “Islam will rule”. Christians don’t do that in their own western countries.
Do you know that Christians need a transfer certificate when the move so that they can join another church in a new place? If they wanted to indiscriminately convert would they have asked for proof? And by the way, a birth/ death certificate/ age proof from a church is a valid document in India in a court of law and for all official purposes. It’s as good as a document from the municipal corporation. That’s because the government has faith in the church administration. No other religion enjoys this trust.
As far as Ibrahim’s allegations that foreign dollars are used for conversions, let me assure him that the money is used for the large number of charitable institutions run in the country. Unlike Muslims who buy weapons and build mosques with Saudi petro dollars, Christians put that money to good use. Indians are today among the most successful people both at home and abroad? Did that education come from municipal schools? Christian missionaries have provided world class education and healthcare at a time when the government had no money for it.
After the British left India many missionaries stayed behind to help build this country. Most of them had dedicated their life to the service of the poor and lived and died here. Tell me, would spreading your religion be a good enough incentive for you to leave the comforts of the developed west and serve people in a third world country? Would you have done it if you were born in America or Europe? It’s always easy to find fault with others. When mother Theresa picked up that child from a gutter in Kolkata what were the rest doing? Tell me, Ibrahim and proud kafir, how useful have you been to society? Have you ever helped anyone besides your own family?
If the west wanted to convert Hindus cant they convert the millions in their own countries? Tell me guys, if America, UK or another European country offered you citizenship in return for conversion, wouldn’t you jump onto the queue too? Do they attempt to do that to Hindus in their countries where it would be a lot easier? In fact, Hindus practice their faith more freely in Christian countries in air-conditioned temples. If you don’t believe me, ask them. The new temple in London is among the most beautiful in the world.
Can you count the number of foreigners who are part of the Hare Krishna movement and ISKON? Do their governments stop them? Don’t they enjoy the freedom to practice any religion that offers them peace and salvation? Forced conversion for money is a cock and bull story invented to justify the atrocities that committed. That’s what politicians do for votes. What about Bangladeshi Muslims being given ration cards so that they can vote? Aren’t you concerned that politicians are literally selling our country?
Go check the plight of Hindu women in countries like Pakistan and other Muslim fiefdoms. They constitute the poorest sections of society, have no basic human rights, are abused, kidnapped, gang raped and forcibly married off to Muslim men. It’s the same with Christians and other minorities too.
Once you’ve finished with Muslim countries, check the status of Hindu women in the west. Try to find out if they are prevented from wearing jeans and t shirts, from going to clubs and pubs, if they are assaulted and their clothes torn if they visit pubs, if they are under the constant glare of any moral police that dictates its own terms of morality. Are you listening?
Another point raised was the west does not care for Indian Christians. Let me assure everyone here that Christians don’t need to be told that, they know it too well. They are not stupid like Muslims who think Saudi is their home land when the fact is that Saudi and the Middle East treats them like dogs. The west is capitalist with respect and social status directly proportional to success and wealth. The percentage of Indian Christian settled abroad is very miniscule compared to Hindus who number in millions. Why do you find hundreds of thousands of Hindus waiting in queues at western embassies if they think the west treats them shabbily? Indian Christians are not obsessed with the west the way Hindus are.
I must tell you that like all Christians I love Hindus and prefer them any day to the violent, illiterate and idiotic Muslims, but the statements made by proud kafir and Ibrahim were outright racist and unfair and makes one doubt about their real motive which seems to be diverting attention from the real evil of Islam. By just quoting figures that have been dished out to you by fundamentalist elements without any evidence to substantiate it, they are behaving just like Muslims.
Christians follow the one child or two child norm and educate them, thus making them useful members of society. If conversion was such a priority, wouldn’t it have been easier to distribute funds through the church to common Christians encouraging them to have more children? In a few years you could have more Christians than you could count !
Always think before you speak. Reminds me of a famous quote – “It’s a lot better to keep your mouth shut and let people assume you’re a fool, than open it and remove all doubt”
To the Intellegent lad, you
To the Intellegent lad, you seem to be working for the church. I know many hindus who work for padres for a living. Or perhaps may be a communist who are always hand in glove with jihadis and missionaries. See below some examples of Christians from Kerala.
Some Christians go to Australia in groups in business/visit visa and part of them hide in the selected houses as planned others report to the police that “part of the group is missing”. After few days they surrender and inform police “ The HINDUS in India torture us and we want to be refugees in Australia ”. They talk only in Malayalam to show they are uneducated. The complaint gets translated into English by a Kerala Christian for preparing the FIR and the refugee status is given for working . HERE THE HINDUS AND MOTHER INDIA ARE TARNISHED FOR GETTING THE REFUGEE STATUS. Kindly inform this to Australian embassy and to all concerned including the church authorities, even though these are done with the support of churches. Some people do this for tarnishing India and let the Christians who oppose such heinous activities also come forward to stop the treachery.
You may remember when Gujarat was moved with earthquake, the US government allotted 100 million dollars immediately. Unfortunately the secretary of all India Christian association persuaded the white house authorities to stop the support to Gujarath. The American authorities did not give the support and when Indian leaders enquired about it they got the reply from the white house officials “ Your own people (Kerala Christian leaders) came here and got it stopped by saying that the fund will be used for Hindus”
Mr. Mathew ( from Kerala with American citizenship) is the chief editor and owner of the weekly English newspaper in Houston, US. In his newspaper he writes continuously that “in India the Christian priests are buried alive, the nuns are raped every day, the churches are burned” and so on. I met Mr. Mathew in Houston and asked “ is there a bit of truth in these reports.” He said “this type of reporting is needed for us (Indian Christian community) to stay together” for tarnishing India without any shame . From this news paper the Americans take the Indian news like this and publish in their newspapers.
LET ALL THE HINDUS, CHRISTIANS ( those who are not participating in the heinous activities against their own mother culture and motherland) AND MUSLIMS REACT AND ACT AGAINST SUCH HEINOUS ACTIVITITES GOING ON THROUGH OUT THE WORLD. THIS INFORMATION IS NOT AGAINST ANY RELIGION.
By the way, in Kerala, Muslims and Christians are far better in terms of education, income and living standards. At least one member from these two communities is working abroad, particularly in Gulf countries and moreover the church and mosque receive huge amounts from abroad for various purposes such as 'jihadi' and 'harvesting of soul'. Education, healthcare, real estate, media are all dominated by these so called 'minorities'. With the attitude of Congress, Kerala Congress, both suported by Christians, Communists, Muslim League, supported by both muslims and hindus, the day is not far off when hindus become minority in Kerala.
By the way, Intellegent lad, please visit website: www.haindavakeralam.org to know the plight of hindus in Bharat in general and especially in Kerala.
Since you have addressed a
Since you have addressed a part of your blabberings to me as well, I shall respond to a few points and the rest I shall leave it to ibraswamy to deal with
Christians don’t do that in their own western countries****
wonder what's the meaning of the above statement. Do you mean to say that the western people, whom you assume to be christians, are not displaying placards/ do you mean to say the brown sahib indian christians who some how reached the western shores are not displaying placards? The words are quite vague.
My point is not to divert the attention away from the fact that ISLAM IS EVIL to THE CORE. Got it? My point is to highlight the duplicitous thoughts of the dead jew on a stick followers( may be not all but quite a few)
I do have plenty of ??? christian friends who are quite aware of and accept my thoughts and we do not have any difficulty in getting along.
The new temple in London is among the most beautiful in the world. Incidentally conceived, built and run by hindus!
This is the temple in neasden in London and I was there during the fund raising .You may not be aware of all the problems that real christians created during the sanction time for this and the other temple in letchmore heath.I used to wonder why there is so much resistence to constructing a temple by christians when .We have so many churches all over India.That doubt cleared completely after reading the evil bible.Idolators are devil worshippers! Wow the dead jew on a stick knew that and got it right.
but the statements made by proud kafir and Ibrahim were outright racist and unfair and makes one doubt about their real motive which seems to be diverting attention from the real evil of Islam****
What racist remark that I have made? Is christianity a race? Hmm I wonder.
After the British left India many missionaries stayed behind to help build this country.****
Wow if this is not racist what is? My gawd if the missionaries were not to be there, we would not have been in space technology.Give me a break will you?
If the west wanted to convert Hindus cant they convert the millions in their own countries? Tell me guys, if America, UK or another European country offered you citizenship in return for conversion, wouldn’t you jump onto the queue too? Do they attempt to do that to Hindus in their countries where it would be a lot easier?****
I would rather be dead than convert! Does it make sense to you??? May be not as you are afflicted with that conversion disease.
Did that education come from municipal schools? Christian missionaries have provided world class education and healthcare at a time when the government had no money for it..********
The government did not have money because the evil twains of biblical and rapist pedo followers had stolen all the money.for your infromation I never attended a missionary school and still achieved a lot in terms of money and education!
Tell me, Ibrahim and proud kafir, how useful have you been to society? Have you ever helped anyone besides your own family?
meaningless drivel and needs no response.Typical underachieving evangelicals' statement.
Can you count the number of foreigners who are part of the Hare Krishna movement and ISKON? Do their governments stop them?****
My oh my.Are the hindus paying so much money for inducing these rich guys to take up hinduism??? Or they are in to it voulntarily? See the difference.I guess not.You have biblically washed up mind.We are saying that missionaries are inducing people to convert giving a few rupees to the needy.No hindu ever gave a few dollars to these people to get involved in hare rama movement.Do you see the difference at all? If yes please respond.
As regards your other points I have no disagreement.You like hindus and so Do I! I have quite a few christians as friends and had a few girl friends too! Venessa was her name.
“It’s a lot better to keep your mouth shut and let people assume you’re a fool, than open it and remove all doubt”
Shall I say you have removed much of my doubts thank you????
Dear Ibraswamy No you are a
Dear Ibraswamy
No you are a hindu.remeber the word hindu has only a geographical connotation and not religious? that way any one residing on the land east of river sindu( hindu as per persians) is a hindu! Follow what religion or nonreligion you wnat as long as the primary principle is to recognise the fact that we are all children of a supreme god!
@enlightened777 "If
@enlightened777
"If conversion was such a priority, wouldn’t it have been easier to distribute funds through the church to common Christians encouraging them to have more children? In a few years you could have more Christians than you could count "
if i can recall correctly the pope condemned use of condoms, isn't that a tactic to increase the christian population?
@ibhrahim
"Now I am an atheist and yet I hold the Vedas in high regard bcos they were composed by my ancestors"
brother, you are a great son of the motherland. Generally people appreciate Vedas because these people are Hindus,philosphers or some theolgists but i think ,respecting them as a work of our great grandfathers is right way of paying homage to them.
PK Yes I am a Hindu bcos I
PK
Yes I am a Hindu bcos I was born eastwards of Sindhu. My ancesors were from this land, so yes you can call me a Hindu in a cultural sense too. I find pride in the fact that my ancestors were great men with a noble lineage.
However as far as God is concerned, I don't believe in a God or the God or any god for that matter. I
Believe or not, you have the
Believe or not, you have the right to exist as much as I have and right next to me! I do not hold your non belief or different belief a sign of devil worshipping or an invitation for my sword to work on you? get the drift?
15. enlightened777 Says: As
15. enlightened777 Says:
As far as figures quoted by Ibrahim and others on Christian conversions in India go, I would like to clarify that those figures are fudged by certain political parties so that they can justify their violent acts. The figure of 90% of a village in Gujarat being converted is nothing but propaganda to mislead gullible people. Tell me honestly, do you believe such absurd statements? The percentage of Christians has remained more or less constant unlike Muslims who constitute nearly 20% of the population, thanks to their indiscriminate breeding habits.
Really mate, I have been to Dang. I have lived in that area for almost 2 years off and on. Now I ask you have you been to dang or to Jhansi in Uttar Pradesh. Go there and speak with the people there and then come. The status is the same in Rajasthan. Now that I have exposed your Born Agian lies, you lay the blame on BJP so that you along with your anglical brethern can carry out your agenda. Anyway what you said is not even an argument enough to refute what I said. As far as unpatriotic Christians are concerned, Mnnnnnnnnnn, go to the NE and you will find hundred's and thousands of them Besides you can also visit some of the areas in Nagpur Chattisgargh belt and speak with the Neo Christian converts there and you will know how patriotic Christians are.
It is true that there are isolated cases, but then they have to be dealt with on an individual basis. Can Ibrahim show me a single Christian who is not patriotic to India and supports America or any European country? Even in the west it is Muslims who go around with placards saying,” Islam will dominate the world” and “Islam will rule”. Christians don’t do that in their own western countries.
Yeah Christians don't say anything they just do things quitely, jst like Jesus said " be like a snake. Moeroever those countries are not even Christian cos every year thousands leave their Christian, which is the reason why the Christain Padres come to countries like India and China.
Do you know that Christians need a transfer certificate when the move so that they can join another church in a new place? If they wanted to indiscriminately convert would they have asked for proof? And by the way, a birth/ death certificate/ age proof from a church is a valid document in India in a court of law and for all official purposes. It’s as good as a document from the municipal corporation. That’s because the government has faith in the church administration. No other religion enjoys this trust.
No I don't know that nor Am I interested in knowing how you missionaries carry out you anti India work. And most of the converts keep mum about their conversions so that they can enjoy the benifits of both the religions, especially if they belong to the SC or ST category. What you are saying is a blatant lie. I have myself read the propaganda material of the Baptist Chruch and the New World miistries. The way the degrade indegenous culture is so typical of Christians and Christianity.
As far as Ibrahim’s allegations that foreign dollars are used for conversions, let me assure him that the money is used for the large number of charitable institutions run in the country. Unlike Muslims who buy weapons and build mosques with Saudi petro dollars, Christians put that money to good use. Indians are today among the most successful people both at home and abroad? Did that education come from municipal schools? Christian missionaries have provided world class education and healthcare at a time when the government had no money for it.
Do you think I trust you! As if I don't know that Christian charity does not come for free. Their is a price tag attached to Christian charity, the tag of selling your soul to Yeshua so that he can save you from the wrath of his father. What world class education are you talking about, do you mean the compulsary Christian prayers which non-Christians have to read, or does it mean to read everything negetive about the idegenous faiths. Anyway those Christian institutions of your fleece the non-Christian of his money and then pocket it to have fun.
After the British left India many missionaries stayed behind to help build this country. Most of them had dedicated their life to the service of the poor and lived and died here. Tell me, would spreading your religion be a good enough incentive for you to leave the comforts of the developed west and serve people in a third world country? Would you have done it if you were born in America or Europe? It’s always easy to find fault with others. When mother Theresa picked up that child from a gutter in Kolkata what were the rest doing? Tell me, Ibrahim and proud kafir, how useful have you been to society? Have you ever helped anyone besides your own family?
lol, you are funny man, That teresa of yours was probably the biggest samster in the world. She converted every man woman and child who came to her for help. What useful things I have done, I don't believe in making a propaganda unlike you Christians, cos I am not here to convert people. I believe in the traditions of the Great Aryas, who sacrificed their lives for others, even for Malechas. I do what I have to do without shouting from rooftops. and that is the difference between you and me.
If the west wanted to convert Hindus cant they convert the millions in their own countries? Tell me guys, if America, UK or another European country offered you citizenship in return for conversion, wouldn’t you jump onto the queue too? Do they attempt to do that to Hindus in their countries where it would be a lot easier? In fact, Hindus practice their faith more freely in Christian countries in air-conditioned temples. If you don’t believe me, ask them. The new temple in London is among the most beautiful in the world.
Yes and those Hindus pay taxes for that. Infact they are not even allowed to propagate their faith cos they are not monotheistic. As for converting to go to USA or UK. Well I piss on the US and Uk Visa and I spitb on it. I have been all around the world darling and I would never ever live in another country other than my motherland.
Once you’ve finished with Muslim countries, check the status of Hindu women in the west. Try to find out if they are prevented from wearing jeans and t shirts, from going to clubs and pubs, if they are assaulted and their clothes torn if they visit pubs, if they are under the constant glare of any moral police that dictates its own terms of morality. Are you listening?
What are you talking about. The west is free bcos of its liberal values and not bcos people follow christianity there, and yes mate anyone which includes Muslims can wear what they like in the west. S its not exactly like the Hindus are getting a free luch there. Moreoever you have exposed you true self and show how patriotic you are. Finally your love the West has been exposed, talk about patriotic Christians. lol
I must tell you that like all Christians I love Hindus and prefer them any day to the violent, illiterate and idiotic Muslims, but the statements made by proud kafir and Ibrahim were outright racist and unfair and makes one doubt about their real motive which seems to be diverting attention from the real evil of Islam. By just quoting figures that have been dished out to you by fundamentalist elements without any evidence to substantiate it, they are behaving just like Muslims.
Racist, yeah right. Can you tell me how I was racist and since when are Christians a race. I just told you the facts, like it or not. Islam is the enemy of humanity but atleast Muslims don't act like they are there to help you. They show their hatred and don't act to be jonnie good boys, quite unlike Christian Missioaries. As for evidence, take out some time and see things around and you will get the evidence. Sadly the Sickular media in India does not believe in truth ful reporting and hence I can't give you figures from TOI.
Christians follow the one child or two child norm and educate them, thus making them useful members of society. If conversion was such a priority, wouldn’t it have been easier to distribute funds through the church to common Christians encouraging them to have more children? In a few years you could have more Christians than you could count !
Always think before you speak. Reminds me of a famous quote – “It’s a lot better to keep your mouth shut and let people assume you’re a fool, than open it and remove all doubt”
hahahahaaaaaaaa, do you think that the Muslims are paid to have kids? No they are not, Christians don't have a lot of kids cos the Bible does not require them to do so.
If you had taken the time to
If you had taken the time to read and reply, you would have done better than this. I have said that there are isolated cases that need to be dealt with on an individual basis. Does that mean that I have denied these things altogether? Have you watched peace TV where Zakir Naik claims daily that thousands of Hindus are converting to Islam? If you had read more carefully you would have realized that I have attempted to clarify certain issues and not comment on Hinduism.
I have also told you that it is wrong to hold Christians responsible for what the British did. Were Indian Christians of the time part of the administration? Were they in positions to take important decisions?
I asked you if you would serve the poor in third world countries if you were born in the developed west. I didn’t find a reply.
I never said the temple was built by Christians. For your information nobody objected to the temple at all. The problem was with a fast food outlet close by (I think it was mc Donald’s) selling beef items and was sorted out by the company by deciding not to sell beef at that outlet.
Who told you that foreign ISKON devotees are all rich? They come from all walks of life and Christians don’t mind if they practice any religion as long as they are happy with it. Do you know what would happen if a Muslim did the same?
Have you heard of Hindu girls being molested and bashed up at a pub in the west? Have you heard of Hindu boys and girls being forcibly married just because they were together in a park?
You said you would rather die than convert. True and so would everyone else. It is not easy in this country to convert people with money or force. While there may cases, this figure is inflated like the 90% you quoted in Gujarat.
Can you post pictures of Christians in the west with placards that say,” Christianity will dominate the world” or anything similar?
To be honest with you, Christians in the west have no issues with Hindus at all. They easily integrate with western society unlike Muslims. Western countries do not keep a tab on Hindus but they do check regularly on Muslims. It’s an open secret.
Do ask your Hindu friends in the west if they face persecution, injustice or unfair treatment in the west.
Muslims in the west lived peacefully until oil was discovered. Once the petrodollars started coming in they began to show their true color. Today they are not content just living in another country, they want to take it over completely. And that includes the US, Europe and India too.
Dr. Zakir Naik has on peace TV repeatedly said that he wants to change the Indian education system because according to him girls lose their virginity by the time they leave school. He also wants sharia to be introduced not just for Muslims but for all Indians. (Interview with shekar gupta on NDTV). Do you know Shekar Gupta’s response? ….right right…that’s all..!
Shouldn’t gupta have taken him to task for these blasphemous statements? Where was the need for this man to lick Zakir Naik’s butt?
Dr. Graham Staines as you know was burned to death in his jeep in a village in Orissa along with his two little children. His wife pardoned the killer and continued to live and work here. He was working with leprosy patients but that’s okay. These Christian don’t deserve any better don’t they?
By the way the RSS has offices in very Christian countries like the US and UK where it collects funds from Hindus. So is money earned in Christian countries okay with them?
Enlightened777 Your claim
Enlightened777
Your claim that free countires of the West are bastions of Christianity is a wrong premise. The enlightenment, moderation, and free thoughts in the West all came in spite of Christianity. Remember what renaissance was all about?
As a matter of fact, when thinking grows deeper in the west, people are going to leave christianity as is already happening, it has really nothing to offer. If you remove Jesus (who actually did not found Christianity and was indeed enlightened), christianity is as bogus as Islam. That is why, their adherants have resorted to dubious means for conversion. If you want to propogate Christianity, have open debate in India, it is constitutionally guaranteed to propagate your faith. But the risk is you will find it blown to smitreens, since there is no religious mysticism in it, unlike Hinduism or Buddhism.
Don't equate Hinduism with cultural or political bodies like RSS. These groups came into existence as reactionary movements because of excesses of Islam and Christianity, they really have no life of their own outside of this.
Sandeep, you are a sensible
Sandeep, you are a sensible person and I have been saying almost the same thing. This is not about religion. It is about bringing two communities who are equally patriotic to their country together on a similar platform. I don’t think it’s fair to call Christians unpatriotic. Muslims are and that’s an open secret. I have already said in a previous comment that the Christian community knows that the common Hindu and the political outfits are two completely different entities. I remember after the Babri Masjid demolition Muslim friends in our group and even the office stopped talking to Hindus. Is that right? Christians never blame Hindus; they blame the political outfit that’s all.
Religion does not dominate the life of a common Hindu or Christian in the way Islam does. The church does not issue diktats to Christians because it doesn’t work. Nobody listens. Christians are known to take their religious leaders with a pinch of salt. But for Muslims, a single call from the mullah can send them to war.
Take the shroud of Turin in which Jesus’s body was supposedly wrapped. For so many years the church has failed to convince Christians of its authenticity. Most believe it to be a brilliant fake. Now Sandeep, if you plucked a single hair from your head and claimed it belonged to Prophet Muhammad, would any Muslim doubt you? No. In fact you would be richer by a billion dollars!
It is wrong to fall prey to propaganda, especially in this country where everything is politically motivated. Nobody really means what they say. Everything is dictated by the compulsions of vote bank politics. Look at Sanjay Dutt now saying that he was beaten in jail because his mother was a Muslim. Does this make all Hindus unpatriotic?
Everyone is free to practice his religion, but I don’t think it’s wise to form an opinion based on political propaganda.
I have not claimed that the west is a bastion of Christianity. To be honest not many Christians bother with the pope or the queen of England. I just drew a comparison between societies in the west and here. Christianity does not have a political agenda against Hinduism but it does fight Islam and that is the truth.
The reasons are not religious but commercial. The west is a capitalist economy and sees Islam as an enemy. That is because Islam is against development and wants to take the world back to the Stone Age and that is against western interests. Hinduism and Christianity are not a threat to mankind. Islam is a very real threat.
Honestly Sandeep I do not see Islam being wiped out through peaceful means. What is more likely is that terrorism will grow to such an extent that the non Muslim world including India will eventually come together and do what the allies did to Hitler.
This will include destroying Islamic countries and bombing of Islam’s holy cities and the Kaaba, leaving no trace of that evil cult. That my friend is a more likely scenario.
thank you for your reply
just one more point sandeep.
just one more point sandeep. i am not trying to propogate christianity but humanity. In fact i am not a good practising christian myself. I do pray at home for about five minutes and dont carry any religious baggage. I have written nothing religious in any of my comments. I am also an ardent fan of sri sri ravishankarji though i feel he bungled up in the debate with Zakir naik. I wish Mr.Bal thakarey were younger. i would have written to him to take on this lunatic. That would have sent Zakir Naik running for cover !
QURAN is the most scientific
QURAN is the most scientific doctrine ever witten in history of the universe.
why?
because it advocates practising INCEST.
Now incest implies that the progeny has chances to have genetic disorders(for further reading follow wikipedia). consequently decreasing the population.
WOW Allah is so amazing in life-science
regarding Indian
regarding Indian muslims:
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4854
muslims of India are much better when it comes to tolerance.still ,their teachings makes them animals.
enlightenment wrote: I must
enlightenment wrote:
I must tell you that like all Christians I love Hindus and prefer them any day to the violent, illiterate and idiotic Muslims, but the statements made by proud kafir and Ibrahim were outright racist and unfair and makes one doubt about their real motive which seems to be diverting attention from the real evil of Islam. By just quoting figures that have been dished out to you by fundamentalist elements without any evidence to substantiate it, they are behaving just like Muslims.
Since when is Christianity a race?
enlightenment, ibrahim and I talk to each other over the internet and he has never tried to convince me that Christianity is a an evil religion and in fact he respects my beliefs and I respect his.
Usually try to stay out of arguments like this, but enlightenment you are out of line.
"Once you’ve finished with Muslim countries, check the status of Hindu women in the west. Try to find out if they are prevented from wearing jeans and t shirts, from going to clubs and pubs, if they are assaulted and their clothes torn if they visit pubs, if they are under the constant glare of any moral police that dictates its own terms of morality. Are you listening?"
"Have you heard of Hindu girls being molested and bashed up at a pub in the west? Have you heard of Hindu boys and girls being forcibly married just because they were together in a park?"
Where the hell in the west are you talking about. I come from New York and NY has a significant Hindu minority and Hindu women are allowed to wear western clothing and marry nonhindu men. In fact many Hindu women go to school, get an education, become doctors, college professors, and exc.
No body objected to building
No body objected to building the Letchmore heath and Neasden temples in UK???? Another christian lie.
Mcdonald near by !!!! Have you been to those places??? The nearest Mcdonald is 5 miles away and who ever has heard of Mcdonald not serving beef burger just to appease Hindu religious sentiments?? Another christian lie. Do you want me to describe the Neasden and Letchmore heath temples and the road etc.I can see you have never been out side kerala or what ever church and are gobbling up the lies of christianity. This Mcdonald thingy is a blatant mischievous lie.The lie of Mcdoland agreeing to not selling beef burger , has a motive.You can keep peddling it and say,look Hindus in the west still carry the no beef ignorance and see how nice and tolerant christians are.We christians(My oh my, when did the dark keralite become pearl white!) agreed not to sell beef inMcdonald.Wow arent these hindus stupid, A typical christian way of lying.
You have never been to either of these places even ones and have not even seen them in UK map.Google search.Just type find from enter Hendon central and thentype say Naesden.Then along just off A 404/407 ( 404 is north circular road) you will see to your right the road going towards the temple.This is the address of the temple Neasden Hindu Temple
105/115 Brentfield RoadLondon, NW10 8JP
Infact 1/2 mile fromthe temple there is a pub and to the right there is a gas station
Type/ find stevenage and then Letchmore heath.You will get the map.Get the Mcdonald map find for your self. I have driven along there thousands of times.I had to drive from south London to Stevenage for 4 years and did this road twice a day!
There is a christian marie disagreeing with you!
The problem with Indian moslems and christians is the nose up in the air attitude.You people thinkthat you have the truth and final truth and so better than najji hindus.When the lie is nailed to the cross for all to see, you start cursing.Open your mind
Reading some of the posts, I
Reading some of the posts, I felt it necessary to try to support Enlightened777.
I am a Christian from Texas in the USA and I have a good opinion of Hindus as being non violent people who do not commit violence in the name of their religion. I realize that the religion is one of the world's oldest but outside of that I know little about its teachings and how it was founded.
On the other hand, I consider myself fairly well studied on both Christianity and Islam (Islam since the 9/11 terrorist attack in New York).
You who are bashing Christianity should read the Gospels of Jesus Christ to understand his teachings and you should also read the Quran and Muhammad's Hadiths to understand Islam.
Jesus Christ's teachings were about personal relations with one another and with God and did not have any governmental implications (give to Caesar what is Caesar's). Christians have always supported their government (unless it was tyranical) and the Christian faith is not in opposition to non Christians or to the governmental authority of the land they live in. If we follow Christ's teachings, we are generally in sync with the laws of the land (except for denying ones faith (if that would be a law) or a law forcing a Christian to do something against his faith,in general against the Ten Commandments given to Moses by God).
On the contrary, Islam via Muhammad via the Quran teaches violence against Pagans, Christians and Jews and other non Islamic Allah believers. In my studies, I have come to the conclusion that a Muslim who believes in every teaching of the Quran cannot be a loyal citizen of a non Islamic country. Since almost everyone in the US falls into Christian, Jew, Pagan (athiest) or other religion, if they believe Sura 9-5, 9-29 or 5-51 plus others, their religion's teachings puts them in violent opposition to the non Islamic population.
As a Christian, I do believe that Jesus Christ was the Son of God and that he said "no one comes to the Father (God) except through Me and that he is "One with the Father". He commanded all Christians, His followers, to "love one another" and "love your enemies" and "forgive seven times seventy" plus he commissioned all Christians to preach the Gospels to all nations. This preaching the Gospel is our duty as Christians because we want all people to know Jesus Christ and have eternal life in Him. If you reject Him and his message, we will be disappointed, but no harm will come to you from a Christian (We believe all people will be judged by Jesus Christ in the final judgement).
I am reminded of a quote by Ghandi that basically said I like your Jesus but not your Christians. People who called themselves Christians have done some not so good things in history but they were not following the teachings of Jesus Christ when they did these things.
On the contrary, the Muslim who kills infidels in Jihad is following the teachings of Muhammad and the Quran.
Muhammad and the Quran deny the divinity of Jesus Christ (Son of God) and give no credence to Christ's teachings of love and forgiveness. Islam contradicts the Gospels. The Quran was written six hundred years after the Gospels.
I urge you to read the Gospels and the Quran so that you can form your own opinion on these two faiths.
Just a note, almost all universities in the US were originally founded by some Christian denomination in the early years of the country (including Harvard) and Christian lower education generally produce a higher percentage of college students than public schools.
I agre that the present day
I agre that the present day Indian christians should not be held responsible for what the cunning british christians did.They were( Indian christians) were not in the administration in large number to influence.Agreed.On the same token how are you supporting the reservation for some castes and discriminating against froward castes?Its not their fault too.the presetn day froward caste children did not take part in any of the oppression? tell thsi to your Indian christian brothers and see the reaction.Infact the dalit converts to xtianit want reservation and your john dayal supports it,This clearly the political christianity and there is no spirituality involved at all.
Proud kafir, I am glad we
Proud kafir,
I am glad we have finally come to an agreement on one issue at least. I have never in any of my posts said that I support anything. I have just asked for specific instances to be dealt with on an individual basis instead of blaming the entire community.
Calling Indian Christians unpatriotic is unfair to say the least. You may be well aware that post independence Hindus in India migrated to the west in large numbers in search of a better life. Most of them were well educated and could have contributed to nation building here.
Many who went abroad for higher studies never returned and chose to contribute their talent to western countries. Didn’t we need them a lot more? India was a poor underdeveloped country at the time and if these well qualified people had stayed back or come back after completing their education we would have been a lot better off today.
Doctors from India serve in rural areas in the west. Why? Are Indians in villages any less human?
There very people who deserted our country when we needed them most are now nostalgic about their roots and want dual citizenship. Why? because India is an economic powerhouse today? Is this patriotism or opportunism? Many of the scientists at NASA are Hindus. Don’t we have an ISRO? It is to our credit that we have as a country have survived and done very well despite this.
The Hindu community thrives in the west because of equal opportunities and their own intellect and hard work. Do Hindu communities in Muslim countries prosper? They are oppressed and persecuted for their faith. Do you know the plight of Hindu women in countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh and other Islamic states? Is it not possible for Hindu organizations like the BJP, RSS, VHP etc to bring Hindu families back to India and offer them a better dignified life? Where else do they have to go? In fact some Hindu families fled Pakistan very recently due to persecution from Muslims.
The government is still “thinking” about granting them citizenship. These same politicians do not think when it comes shamelessly doling out ration cards, identity cards and other perks to Bangladeshi Muslims who illegally cross our borders.
Proud kafir, I’m sure you will realize after reading all my posts that I had not the slightest intention of hurting anyone. If conversion had really happened in this country at the rate claimed, Christians would have equaled Muslims in number.
There are stray cases and the people involved are called “lay preachers”. These have nothing to do with the church or the community as such. I also agree that such people should be punished but I don’t agree with throwing stones at all churches just because someone in a remote village has done something undesirable. That’s undesirable too.
Thank you very much for your reply
Did you know that the close
Did you know that the close coterie protecting soniajis is only christian and that too of cathholicK variety???? the rest of the dogs are allowed only on need to know basis.This is the typical christian attitude of the white masters the brown sahib christians are quickly copying.OScar joker, margaret,etc are all catholicKs! The white colonial rulers absolutely dislike the educated brahmins and so do the hindu politicians.The christians and moslems are quite aware of the discrimination faced by the forward castes in governmental places.Dalit suppression etc is all political tamasha.The minorities just join in to get the benefit.Many disgusted forward castes left the country, out of necessity.the caste division has to go.then only India will be great country.the caste division was encouraged by british and the reservation has strengthened the caste calculations. Out siders want the Hindus to be divided on caste basis, as that weakens India.Inside India our politician belonging to the non forward castes want people to be uneducated and ignorant, so that they retain power. Bihar and lalloo typical example.The christians and moslems support this group of corrupt uncouth politicians as they think that united hindus with no caste distinction is a threat for their survival.All in all its a holy mess.!
I hesitate to get into a
I hesitate to get into a conversation I know very little about except to maybe learn. Your caste system (if it still exists?) appears to me to be a form of discrimination and I am not sure if it developed as a by-product of Hinduism or culture or both. If the basis is the Hindu religion, that would be a negative for me as an outsider.
Here in the US we are a young country made up of immigrants (my forefathers came here from Bohemia in 1875) and a large number of us still value individual iniative and self reliance. All they (and I) wanted was freedom and the opportunity to succeed (to become Americans). Our Dr. Martin Luther King made the speech about judging a person by his character and not by the color of his skin and I agree wholeheartly with that statement. Even though the black man was given his freedom after our Civil War (1861-1865), he still was dicriminated against in job opportunities and such. This has largely been corrected by our equal opportunity laws.
The point is that we are not tied to historical cultural boxes or straight jackets and somehow we have managed to overturn injustices that develop from time to time, but we are not perfect.
I tend to believe that our founding fathers statements in the Declaration of Independence "that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the consent of the governed,..." is a guiding principle that forces us to look at any hypocracies or injustices from time to time.
I hold the Declaration of Independence and our Constitution almost as dearly as I do the Gospels of Jesus Christ and there is no contradiction between the two as many of our founders were Christians (who wrote these words).
It appears our struggles for justice in society are similar, however, you have thousands of years of cultural history to overcome. We in the United States are becoming more secular and that is troubling to me because without a moral standard to guide, laws are being passed that go against my moral compass (like abortion) and I am taxed to support it. The Commandment "Thou shall not kill" is more compelling to me than the secular concern about how shall we feed all these unwanted babies (and I share that concern but trust in God).
We (in the US) are also moving toward socialism and although I believe in helping the poor (as Christ taught), I believe it should be done by the individual and private charities, not the state as then it becomes an entitlement or right and the incentive to earn one's own way is considerably decreased. We are getting to the point where a large number of people are dependent on the government which produces nothing but redistributes wealth from those that have and produce and gives to those that have not and do not produce.
Sorry to ramble on and hope you in India come together to over come your problems and continue to prosper. The Islamic situation has been there for 1400 years and my studies of the religion and its history indicates it is stifling to creativity and innovation and creativity and innovation are critical for a growing population to avoid poverty and strife.
There are more than 7500
There are more than 7500 castes in India! Believe me there are castes amongst christians and moslems too! So much for these egalitarian religions.
There is nothing called a monolithic hindu and there is nothing called a hindu! Hinduism is not a religion.It was all made by british.We are all sanatana dharmis. We belong to a timeless religion/ thought process.This eternal religion's frist prayer is let all people of all hues,colours and religions be happy. It does not say kill him if he does not follow me nor does it say he will rot in hell if he does not follow me!
It also says let all creatures of god the unseen,unfathomable,be happy.
Let there be peace and peace always. Can you show one verse that says let there be peace every where all the time in other religions?
where ever the evil of islam
where ever the evil of islam spreads, it brings in with it
poverty,ignorance,illiteracy,squalor,oppression,violence,disturbance and there will be no peace in that area.
Examples? Plenty
Bangladesh,porkisthan,Afghanisthan,Persia,Iraq,Egypt,Somalia,Mindanao, Of late UK, Chechnya,Nigeria,India,) though not islamic in number yet),...... The list keeps growing.
If US of A citizens dont wake up now, they can go to sleep for ever
proudkafir, I agree that we
proudkafir,
I agree that we in the US need to wake up and see Islam for what it is, a violent, oppressive religion and I am doing my part to inform Americans of the dangers of this evil religion. I also agree that every where the proponents of this religion interface with non Islamic cultures there is violence and discord as supported by your list. You did not mention France, the Phillipines or the Netherlands. Are you familiar with Geert Wilders (Netherlands politician and statesman) and his movie FITNA? I believe it is available on the internet. He is a Dutch politician who has risked his life speaking publicly the things you and I are discussing about Islam. I admire the man.
We have an organization here in the US named American Congress for Truth that was founded by an Lebanese Arab Christian woman who was driven from her homeland by Hezbollah and she warns against Islam's subversive political and financial inroads into our society. They have a website.
I would ask you to read the Gospel of John to understand the teachings of Jesus Christ. Although He does say "if you believe in me and keep my commands, you will have eternal life", His primary commands were to love one another and even love your enemies and to forgive seven times seventy. I make no judgement as to those that choose not to believe in Him. Read the Gospel of John or for that matter Matthew, Mark and Luke also. They all testify to Jesus teachings and miracles (raising three people from the dead, giving sight to the blind, curing lepers, curing paralytics, walking on water, quieting a storm, etc. etc.) in the brief 3 plus years of His ministry. He does chastise the Jewish leaders of His day for their hypocracy and He was crucified because He claimed to be the Son of God making Himself God, a blasphemy to the Jewish leadership. He was raised from the dead on the third day which we call Easter Sunday and appeared to many. Over 500 saw him Ascend into Heaven per the writings of Saint Paul.
I would be willing to read about sanatana dharmis if you could direct me to a website so that I could have a better understanding of your faith.
Peace, Brother
[...] FaithFreedom.org -
[...] FaithFreedom.org - Sachar Committee Report Uncovered Backwardness of India’s Muslims, Part 3 [...]
TruthWfree They all testify
TruthWfree
They all testify to Jesus teachings and miracles (raising three people from the dead, giving sight to the blind, curing lepers, curing paralytics, walking on water, quieting a storm, etc. etc.)
Just because Christianity has willing idiots to believe in this crap does not make it a fact. Such miracles would have been reported by many other contemporary accounts apart from the believers who were willing fools, were they true. In any case, it is sheer stupidity to believe in raising people from dead and other blah, blah, blah. You appear to be one such brain dead individual for posting such load of crap.
The fact is that Jesus used to move around on his donkey with twelve fools, who escaped while he was being crucified. That was their level of commitment for a man who was performing miracles. He squealed to his God while on cross, and his body was lowered by one prostitute Mary and two other women while those twelve fools still at large. It is not even clear if he was dead, because it took 48 hours for anybody to die on cross with blood dripping drop by drop and he was removed before that. Prima facie, it appears he escaped after that. Paul was a jewish businessman who saw a great business opportunity in starting a new line of business in founding a faith with so many willing idiots around wallowing with raw sympathy for an unjust act, and we all know he was successful. He started a lineage of morons called popes who take their name after him and have been screwing around with rational thinking ever since.
This site is not for substituting one crap with another. Grow brains and try to reason that Christianity is as load of BS as Islam. Only difference is that it has been defanged by free-thinking liberal people over the ages and carry sugar-coated poison pill called missionaries.
Hekina, Not sure I can
Hekina,
Not sure I can understand your complete lack of faith. I assume you are athiest. There was a Jewish historian named Josephus who spoke of Jesus and is attributed the statement "if it be lawful to call him a man".
Peter and Paul both died during Nero's persecution during the first century AD (anno domine, year of our lord). Christianity grew in the first three hundred years after Christ's death even though there were significant persecutions by Roman Emperors Nero, Diocletion and Galerius and others. So Paul's business venture as you so erroneously call it was a failure. The truth is Paul was a Jewish Pharisee who persecuted the followers of Christ and was blinded by the Risen Jesus (after Christ's death) when Paul was on his way to Damascus to bring Christians back to Jerusalem for trial. He became
Jesus Christ is where I put my faith and hope for eternal life. The choice is yours as to where you place your faith or to have none at all if that is your choice. If I am wrong about placing my faith in Jesus Christ, I am no worse off that you. If you are wrong, then you will have to answer to Jesus Christ at the final judgement.
If I follow the teachings of Christ, I harm no one. I have no problem with anyone believing differently, unless of course that belief requires them to kill or subjugate
Hekina, Paul became one of
Hekina,
Paul became one of the most prolific preachers of the Gospel after his vision of the risen Christ (he was blinded by the vision) . His testimony is in Acts of the Apostles written by Luke, the Greek physician. Luke also wrote one of the Gospels.
It seems that your "Myth" has had significant influence on the entire western world and continues to have influence throughout the world without the threat of the "Sword", just the hope and promise of eternal life. Countless hospitals, charities, and schools have been built because of the teachings of your "Myth".
Hekina wrote: He squealed to
Hekina wrote:
He squealed to his God while on cross, and his body was lowered by one prostitute Mary and two other women while those twelve fools still at large
Hi Hekina, I want to correct your assertion about Mary and Paul. Mary was not a prostitute, that was something made up by the early Church to denigrate her important status in the New Testament.
Paul was a jewish businessman who saw a great business opportunity in starting a new line of business in founding a faith with so many willing idiots around wallowing with raw sympathy for an unjust act, and we all know he was successful.
Paul was originally a persecuter of the Christians, which lead to the death of many Christians. Also if Paul was a fraud, then why did he die for something he knew was false ( Paul was martyred for his testimony )?
Paul did not start a lineage for popes, there is nothing in the Bible to suggest it. That was something the Catholic Church started.
TruthWfree If you are wrong,
TruthWfree
If you are wrong, then you will have to answer to Jesus Christ at the final judgement.
This is typical rant of Abrahamic faiths. It is not question of ifs or buts. It is matter of proving conclusively the most important questions of life and death for which Christianity has no definitive answers and have temerity to fool and proselytize the gullible like you yourself in this trap..
If I follow the teachings of Christ, I harm no one.
Which Lala Land do you come from? To give example from recent times, the Christianity has converted the entire tribal population of East Timor and managed to carve out a new country of East Timor out of Indonesia just because oil was found there. There was concomitant bloodshed too. Now, the oil companies from Austrailia are exploiting the resources there. You are culprit in this for contributing some funds out of your earnings to church for such causes. All those hospitals etc are poisoned pills to proselytize for a greater bloodshed in future. Your cult is a cult of vampires.
You are such a moron that you are quick to label a person atheist just because he does not follow your moronic cult. Are you aware that there is more to life than your cunning cult full of stupidities?
Also if Paul was a fraud…
Marie, the whole cult of Christianity is a fraud started by Paul. Remember the popes persecuting the free thoughts, witch-hunting, etc. Moreover, it provides no definitive answers to profound questions like: Who am I? What is my relationship to existence? Why are you born in some developed western world and not Ethiopia? Etc. It just tells you to join the big Christian queue and pray hard to some God that does not exist, and like this moronic guy TruthWfree gives a “belief” that some JC who died long back will save you. (An act of nonsense). Belief means killing all thinking faculties, hindering all quests towards knowing. Until you get your own answers, all cults are nonsense (Christianity being the biggest nonsense of all).
JC when questioned sincerely
JC when questioned sincerely falls flat on his nose!
Supposing I have sinned and latest sin is, I have had an immoral relationship with my neighbour who is a muslimah, and I pary hard to JC, will he forgive my sin?
What of the moslimah? Will JC intervene in reducing her burden of sin as well?
I used to have christian friend.she lost a few rupees( perhaps misplaced a fiver) and she said she prayed to the lord,lo and behold, she found the fiver.So JC is true.This was a medical student , mind you and this the level of thinking of an average JC follower.Leave alone the esoterical questions. who AM I? Where am I from? Why am I here? what's my prupose? What's the meaning of life? Do the small creatures have any meaning in their life too? etc.
I said to her If you had prayed to JC , please make sure my Fiver is never found, would he have made it disappear/ Would you have prayed at all? See it's always advantgeous to ask and so in prayer you ask from the lord, for this that etc. its a giver and taker assembly and nothing spiritual!
Hekina, You obviously have
Hekina,
You obviously have proof that there is no God and that Jesus Christ did not exist. If so, please produce the evidence.
Read Christ's teachings in the Gospels and you will find that if I follow Christ's teachings, I harm no one. Please take any one of his teachings and show me the fault in it and by following a teaching, I can harm someone. By the way, I have been helping a little girl in Guatemala since she was about eight and now she is studying to be a teacher (all in the name of Jesus Christ)! I also give to the Salvation Army and have bought meals for down and out people on the streets (all in the name of Jesus Christ)!
Again, I do not deny some of the accusations you make about the errors of the Church, however, they were not following Christ's teachings when they did these things. I assume (with a considerable amount of doubt) that you have never done anything against your moral code (Do you have one? If so, why do you have one?)
Finally, your lack of belief in a "cult" as you say has done very little for you in that you have no definitive answers to profound questions like: Who am I? What is my relationship to existence?
I am a follower of Jesus Christ and I am doing my best to follow His teachings doing good to my fellow human beings and I have faith in His promise of everlasting life.
The Bible, both Old Testament and the Gospels, are full of historical evidence of God's dealings with Israel and the eye witness accounts in the Gospels of the miracles of Jesus. For anyone to ignore this and look only to secular material is a biased examination, to say the least. The Assyrian and Babylonian Empires are both mentioned in the Bible as both of these empires took Israel (the northern kingdom) into captivity to Ninevah and then Judah (the southern kingdom) into captivity in Babylon, and there are other passages and stories supported by secular historical data.
You will never know the answers to your questions unless of course a time capsule is found indicating you were placed on this earth by ancesters from the planet Zercon in the Constellation Kooky. But then where did they (the Zerconians) come from?
Your hope, as I understand it, is that when you die that will be the end.
In my case, through my faith in Jesus Christ, it will be the beginning of eternity with God in Heaven. I have faith in that because He promised eternal life in the Gospels. You have to understand faith to understand what I am saying.
Proud Kafir, I assume you
Proud Kafir,
I assume you mean have an immoral relationship based on the teachings of Jesus Christ or the Ten Commandments? I also assume your religion (called Hindu by the British?) has a moral code that you live by? I don't know.
In Christianity, that issue is between yourself and Jesus Christ. In my case, I try to avoid sin and follow His teachings, but if I sin and am truly repentant and do my best to avoid the sin, then I have faith that He will forgive me. I have found that the deeper my faith in Christ the less prone I am to sin.
I suppose that one can pray to Jesus to help him find something but I do not. My personal emphasis on prayer is that the Lord Jesus be with me and give me strength to do God's will for me which is following Christ's teachings. I do not pray for material things but God has blessed me in my life, my children and my grandchildren and I have never been in need of food, clothing, or shelter. I have also found that prayer is good for any anxieties about life that I may have. Prayer has a calming, peaceful effect for me.
You and Hekina should not close your minds to Jesus Christ and His teachings as they are an excellent way to conduct one's life.
Peace
What an interesting debate! I
What an interesting debate! I learned volumes from you all. I am from Holland and I like very much what Geert Wilders is doing. Because the political establishment around him, except maybe the liberals, are so denying the obvious threat to democracy, and especially free speech, we are facing in the whole world today. I also know about and admire Brigitte Gabriels ACT for America. Although ProudKafir and Ibrahim remain for me very valuable allies, I was so impressed by Enlightened777's and Kaalans contributions. I want to go over them a few more times to internalize them. Thank you both so much! By the way, Marie seemingly misunderstood Enlightened777 about the clothing of Hindu Women in western society and Proudkafir therefore was wrong to say that ChristianMarie disagreed with Enlightened777, in my opinion.
TruthWfree also impressed me a lot. I too love the American constitution. Now the fact is that my older brother is translating the bible in various languages of the Caribbean, my sister is the wife of a Christian minister. Whereas I am an apostate to Christianity, choosing Scientific explanations as the highest. I did this very consciously. And I know of most of the evidence for or against Christianity, for instance through Earl Doherty and G.A. Wells. But still my family and I love each other and meet regularly. Still we Atheists-Freethinkers have much in common with Christians, especially our love for Democracy. And Atheists-Freethinkers-Christians-Hindus (parts of them of course) all can see the threat of radical Islam.
We all realise that all of the contributors to this forum, except the Muslims of course, would be ... what ... in the Islamic countries? Not: Tolerated, Listened to respectfully, Ignored, Countered, Reprimanded or Confirmed as in India and the West. But rather Intimidated, Jailed, even Killed! And I guess it is Ali Sina who brought us all together.