Kashmir: The Legion of Terror
Submitted by Ibrahim Lone on Fri, 02/27/2009 - 06:58
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PDF versionBy Ibrahim Lone
Let me begin by telling you what the war in Kashmir is about and what it is not about. Well for starters, the war in Kashmir is not about Freedom, Human rights, equality, right to self determination or anything that most Media tells you. What it is really about is Islam. Yes, what is going on in Kashmir is the direct result of the commands that are enshrined in the Holy Book of the Muslims, the Quran and the commands of their Prophet.
Brief History
So let us begin our short journey and try to get the facts straight for a change. The biggest lie that has been told about Kashmir is that the war in Kashmir is very recent and that Muslims were brutalized by the Hindus from mainland India and thus had to take up arms in order to save themselves. The fact of the matter is that this war has been going on since the beginning of India’s independence when the King of Jammu and Kashmir seceded territory to India. This was entirely his decision and based on the fact that he was frees to choose as per the accord between the British, Indians and Pakistanis.
However Pakistan which was already enraged at the prospect that even after launching a Jihad and killing millions of Hindus and Sikhs, they could only get such a small piece of land. As the children of Allah, they certainly deserved better even if they were numerically in a minority. Perhaps the British were not aware that Allah had given the earth as a gift to the Muslims, and showing sympathy to the Kuffar (non-believers) was a mortal crime.
Unhappy with what happened in Kashmir, Pakistanis sent waves of Pashtoon tribals into Kashmir, where they slaughtered thousands of Hindus and Sikhs at will, buttered babies, took the war booty that was due to them, raped the infidel women who were going to hell anyway. These are the very tribesmen who today lead the Taliban incidentally. After the India Army took over the war the tribals were driven back to the holes they had come from, sadly due to the intervention of UN India could not reclaim the territory know as Pakistan occupied Kashmir, which the Pakistanis fondly call Azad Kashmir or Free Kashmir.
Anyway, what happened next is that the Kashmir valley along with Leh and Jammu joined the Indian nation as a new state called Jammu& Kashmir. Now the three regions were ethnically, religiously and lingualy different from each other. While the Jammu region is predominantly Hindu, Leh was is a Buddhist region with no affinity to either Kashmir or Jammu. The Kashmir valley composed of Muslims with a large minority of Hindus and a few Sikhs.
Soon after India’s Independence the Muslims of Kashmir valley understood that physical reunion with Pakistan was possible only if they lead a low intensity war which would slowly bleed India and force them to seceded not just the Kashmir valley but also the rest of the regions. For this very reason the Kashmir politicians, all of whom were Muslims raised demand for a special status to be awarded to the Jammu and Kashmir state. This demand resulted into something know as the 370 Act. According to this act in the Indian Constitution every resident of J&k could buy or sell immovable property in any part of India while the same favor was not extended to those belonging to the rest of the parts of India.
This was a very clever strategic move by the Muslim politicians, as they knew that the Hindus and Buddhists could never match them in procreating and increasing numbers. Hence was laid the foundation for all future proxy wars against the Indian Kuffar.
Furthermore the Muslims politicians cleverly divided the Kashmir region in to more districts than we due considering the Kashmir valley composes only 2% of the land mass of the state of Jammu and Kashmir. On the other hand the entire Jammu region which was many times larger in terms of area as well as population was converted to a single constituency. Same was the case with the Leh region.
Not the very distant past and the present
Now the question that you would ask is that what did the Kashmiri Muslims achieve by doing this, well a lot of things. Firstly the valley region was grossly overrepresented and the rest of the regions were totally underrepresented in the Jammu& Kashmir assembly. Due to this all the Pro-Muslims and Anti Non-Muslim laws could be passed with any resistance. Furthermore the J&K government which was only represented by the Muslims of the Kashmir valley had hegemony over the entire state and its policies. As a result of this hegemony all the money that came from the Central Government was diverted into the valley region in a way that it would specifically benefit the Muslims.
Besides the Muslims in power in Kashmir also devised a very heinous ploy, i.e., to carry out massive conversions in the Leh region which has deprived till then. Actually this deprivation was a very clever ploy which found its origin in the Qur’an and the sunnah, which imposed the Jizziyaa on Non-Muslims. So the economic deprivation was the new form of Jizziyya for the Islamists governing Kashmir. As a result many people were lured into Islam by offering money and better economic prospects. This was of course a clever ploy and the Kashmir Muslim only wanted these people to convert to ease their claim for succession from India. Today there are many colonies of Muslims in the Leh region who’s contact with Islam is not more 40 years which is exactly the time when these coerced conversions took place.
Even the admission process was controlled by the Chief Minister of state as a result of which the most meritorious Hindus and Sikhs could not even dream of getting an admission into a professional college, while the worst of Muslim students got to become Doctors and Engineers.
Besides ample amounts of money coming from the Central Government were diverted into funding Madarssas, Islamic shrines, Mosques Islamic study centers etc. All this was done while not even a dime was given to the minorities in order to help protect their places of worship. These Madarssas served as the breeding grounds for the future Jihadis who were brainwashed since their childhood. Of course we cannot neglect the Pakistani help which the Kashmir Muslims have been getting since the beginning of this low intensity war. Now Pakistan is only the front face of the real people behind the funding activities. After all it would be naïve to expect that a country which has barely $3 billion in reserves could manage to fund such a campaign in Kashmir. So what was the source, it could be just about anybody’s guess. The same regimes which are involved in funding terror all over the world were involved here too and they were able to secure their agenda quite well.
The above listen events and facts were only about the political angle; now let us explore the terror angle which is what the misinformation part is all about.
The terrorists aided and abetted by the masters started their Islamic Jihad against India in the year 1989. At this time the ordinary Muslims joined hands with their brethren from Sudan, Somalia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, etc to defeat the Kuffar who had been feeding till that time. A war cry was raised throughout the valley. The chantation of Allahu Akbar became the most integral part of the rallies which were taken out by the ordinary Muslims. Loudspeakers inside the Mosques declared that the Hindus and Sikhs had two choices, either to stay back in valley and die or to leave their women folk behind and leave the valley. Not a very good option. They were not even given the option of converting to Islam.
Thereafter began the dance of death and destruction which lasted for about the time till the Hindus and Sikhs had to leave their home in the Valley. Hindu homes were torched, looted at will. Hindu women were deprived of their honor on the streets. All this happened in the knowledge of the Indian Government, who in the fear of upsetting the Muslims around the world, let the Kashmir Muslims carry out their slaughter.
Today these Hindus live in camps where the living conditions are worse than those for farm animals. They have no hope left for their future and cannot even dream of going back to the Kashmir valley for fear of being killed by the ordinary Muslims.
The war in Kashmir valley was not fought by the armed Jihadis alone; the common Muslims had a large contribution too. For without their support it would have been impossible for the Jihadis to survive this long.
Conclusion
In conclusion all I would like to tell those who have been reading this article is to sit back and think how all this happened while the world was watching and how the people were fooled into believing something that never happened.
good beginning Ibrahim but it
good beginning Ibrahim but it would be great if you could get this published with some of the mainstream media as a voice from Kashmiri who was a muslim.
I wish there were more honest people like you.
focussed do you really think
focussed
do you really think that the mainstream media would ever publish this article. moreover it would lead to the revelation of whereabouts. So that will be it for me!
Well said dear "Ibrahim
Well said dear "Ibrahim Lone"
Talking about History???
""Brief History
So let us begin our short journey and try to get the facts straight for a change. The biggest lie that has been told about Kashmir is that the war in Kashmir is very recent and that ---""
The Neocolonialist Congress party lead by GandHi-Nehru dynastic rulers have made a fool of ignorant , innocent poor Indians ( mostly Hindus who have no political consciousness) to rule India for last 60 years.
Indians have been taught a distorted version of Indian history where the Muslim invaders as well as the Christian British invaders are pictured as " Good Rulers " .
Now the question is can any Ruler be Good?? Where democracy is concerned , can any Ruler be called Good?? Democracy means the politicians are there to serve the people not to rule( as it was done during the middle age by the Islamic and the Christian rulers).
Kashmir is just the tip of the iceberg called religious(cultist) hegemony. Call that Islamic or Christianity. They are all the same. Shame.
Ibrahim lone is a biased
Ibrahim lone is a biased liar. Why right of self determination was not given to kashmiris? All problems are because of that.
Salim, you are a liar. it is
Salim,
you are a liar. it is not about self-determination. It is about religion and region. If pakistan is so concerned about kashmir, it would not have settled punjabis in POK. Pakistan does not even need muslims of kashmir. they will be treated like shit if ever pakistan gets kashmir. Pakistan needs kashmir because its lifeline flows through kashmir and because of that india can screw up paskistan any time it wants. all it has to do is control the rivers that flow from kashmir into porkistan.
I was recently looking into economy of POK and comparing it to Indian kashmir. There is no comparison. it can be safely said that POK looks like a third world country and Indian kashmir as if it belongs to first world....
so, stop spreading lies and get out of your delusions.
#4. Salim Says: February
#4. Salim Says:
February 27th, 2009 at 11:40 am
" Why right of self determination was not given to kashmiris?"
Now tell us: Who are the real Kashmiris ?
The Muslim Invaders( read Muslim cockroaches)? Or the native Hindu Kashmiri Pundits?
The Muslim Pigs invaded Hindu India and started breeding like cockroaches : Now look those Cockroaches are calling that land theirs. What a joke??
Salim, for once stop being a
Salim,
for once stop being a muslim and stop using your muslim logic. When Pak army along with tribal crossed the border and raped, looted, killed, and burned the innocent ( you won't think kafir could be innocent, but our world says so ), where was the cry for self determination?
First you did systematic, preplanned racial cleansing. Converting the poor people, driving hundred of thousands away and now demanding self determination. Ok once ( just for logical argument ) it is accepted, but in turn take all muslims from rest of India, not a single mo should be left behind.
You guys have no right for self determination, as democracy means nothing to you. First fiy your democracy in Pak and then talk about consensus.
You guys show the trends of your liar, dishonest mohammed. When in power do all crimes as you can and when cornered talk of human right, democracy and peace. Like pedo mo, you accept the things if beneficial to you and if not beneficial then just do opposite.
salim you talk about the
salim
you talk about the self determination of kashmiris as if you know the senario in kashmir. I wonder if you have even been there?
Anyway what about the rights of the Hindu, Christian and Sikh Kashmiris who are not interested in joining pakistan. Are their rights not important?
Or just bcos muslims reprooduce like rabbits, it gives them the right to claim whatever land they want.
Ibrahim, yep, there are two
Ibrahim,
yep, there are two issues
a) mainstream media unwilling to publish this kind of article.
b) threat of muslims to those who dare to criticize them.
There is a limit to alternate media like this one in terms of the reach.
We either need to get more foot soldiers who are willing to spread the awareness among the masses or we need high profile media events.
Both could play their part.
e.g., let us get some of the famous ex-muslims to promote some of the sites like FFI, thereligionofpeace . We could initiate a dialogue with Salman Rushdie and folks like hiim. I am not sure if this has already been done but it might help.
we need to get more and more people who are apthetic to politics and unaware of the lurking danger amidst them but who do have access to technology.
probably we should create a forum topic for this and discuss ways and means of spreading our message.
Ibrahim, here we go again and
Ibrahim, here we go again and once you have opened my eyes as you always do. Just love you and wish more articles like this. In the recent election Kashmiris voted for pro-Indian guy, what does this mean? Does it mean that the majority of Kashimirs no longer want to be part of terror ravaged Islamic hell Pakistan? Does it mean that Kasmiris are changing stance and religion is no longer number one priority for most muslims in Kashmiris?
proud christian there are
proud christian
there are many people (Muslims) in Kashmir, who don't want to join Pakistan. They know what will happen if they happen to join that joke of a country. But these people can't speak out of fear for their lives. Sadly they even have to join the rallies lead by the Islamic Fundamentalists. If they fail to join to join these rallies, the are immediately branded as Gaddar, or traitors.
I see hope in the near future. People are slowly getting tired of this war and killing, and I am sure that we will see some hope soon.
One more imp. thing is that
One more imp. thing is that most of the people living in Kashmir valley now are Muslims, as the Hindus and Sikhs were killed or driven out in 1989.
Amina says Hyderabad Riots -
Amina says
Hyderabad Riots - In December 1990 riots took 1,000 civ. & 1,000 radicals totaling 2,000 lives. From 1978 to 1984 riots were like annual festivals. No of total deaths is hard to retrieve. But in 1988, it was reported that the streets of Hyderabad were littered with bodies of right from Herbed to Latifabad claiming more than 400 deaths. Some other Rioting also occurred in 1948, 1978, Sept 07, 1983, 1988, & 1992.
REFERENCES:- The Vanishing Glory of Hyderabad (Sind, Pakistan)”. UNIOR Web Journals, “Hyderābād City - Imperial Gazetteer of India v. 13, p. 321″, “Pakistan Backgrounder”. South Asia Terrorism Portal. Retrieved on 2008-04-14
can you believe gullibility of this woman. She copy/ pastes stuff where Muslims killed Hindus in Pakistan, Hyderabad. She probably thought its about Hyderabad in India. I mean one should at least read stuff before copy/ pasting stuff.
i had a good laugh .. so
i had a good laugh .. so thanks amina although i could not see your cnp work.. thanks Ibrahim for pointing it out..
Actually Amina, was writing
Actually Amina, was writing about the killing of the Shias, by the Sunnis in Hyderabad. I don't know how Hindus came into the picture.
The poor people live in Pakistan as if they don't even exist. I have seen the pathetic conditions in which the Hindus and Sikhs are forced to live in Pakistan by the Muslims.
Here is another link to the latest spate of Sunni vs Shia violence in Pakistan.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090227/wl_sthasia_afp/pakistanunrestsectarian
An entire school full of Shia kids was fired upon by Sunnis.
Religon of peace for sure, I don't have any doubts left anymore.
Actually, AMIM is a
Actually, AMIM is a transvestite male (read chakka).
This is his self proclaimed abbr. stands for Assistant to Majlis of Idiotic Mullahs.
With such distinguished company to serve, no wonder he does such glaring and silly mistakes.
Idiocy knows no bounds in
Idiocy knows no bounds in Islam. While muslims are busy trying to convert infidels, they are also simultaneously working to declare existing muslims as infidels. eg. ahmadis in pakistan who consider themselves muslims but are officially forced to call themselves non-muslims. I do not know any other religion that treats its adherents like this..
Hey Ibby baby maybe you could
Hey Ibby baby maybe you could enlighten us abt this self determination that we keep hearing abt where did this originate.
This originated in the head
This originated in the head of a couple of Seyyeds in Kashmir who poisoned the minds of the native Kashmiri Muslims. Of course these seyyeds were and still are on the payrolls of the Pakistanis. Most of the people in power were and still are seyyeds, they control the minds of the ordinary Kashmiri, telling him how to think and how to act in order to get the so called liberation from India.
This is nothing but a ploy of the Seyyeds to control the ordinary Muslims and to be able to rule Kashmir without anyone challenging their authority.
Mr.Ibrahim.Let me tell u a
Mr.Ibrahim.Let me tell u a incident regarding kashmiri pandits in Bangalore while i was in my final year MBBS.The year was 1989 or 1990,i am not sure.We friends decided to have a party & i was given the job of purchasing the chicken.When i was in the shop 2 very fair skinned gentlemen approached me to seek medical assistance.When they learn t that i was a medical student,i was taken to a marriage hall. Believe me i saw about 400 people(not sure of no) sprawled on the ground over bed sheets.I learn t they were Hmt employees of Srinagar.They were kicked out by the militants.They were being looked after by the Hmt welfare association of Hmt Bangalore.The news was suppressed in the local media as well as national.Why?????
AMIM, India is a secular
AMIM, India is a secular country. When cutlets try to do Jihad on us, we teach them good lesson. Haven't you folks in Porkistan lost 4 battles with us? We have good relationship with Sri Lanka (haven't you seen LTTE being dismantled by Lanka through India's aid?), Nepal, Burma, and now even China. We have problems with Porkistan because they follow Pedophile Muhammad and want us to follow their sick Arabic culture. Allah didn't support you guys in the four wars. Allah and Mohammad hiding under Khadijah's undergarments in future in the Islamic hell. Hey look Nawaj Shariff is up against the ruling govt there. Solve the dirty problems in your dirty Porkistan first.
I wonder when the muslims
I wonder when the muslims would ever be able to produce a song just like " wind of Change"for their nazist, fascist, totalitarian, chauvinist, egocentric (rather idiotic,in my personal opinion) ideology, to proclaim liberty and freedom from mosque -controlled policy.
Sory to disturb ,but...
Sory to disturb ,but...
Siroco/Hamatan of Change
"I follow the Medina
Down to Unholy Mecca
Listening to the Siroco (or Hamantan) of change
An Ramadan winter(in the northen hemisphere) night
Jihadis passing by
Listening to the Siroco of change
The world closing in
Did you ever think
That we could be so close, unlike Kuffar-believers
The future's in the air
I can feel it everywhere
Blowing with the Siroco of change
Chorus:
Take me to the magic of the moment
On a glory night
Where the children of tomorrow dream away
In the Siroco of change
Walking down the street
Distant destroyed temples memories
Are buried in the past forever
I fallow the Medina
Down to Unholy Mecca
Listening to the Siroco of change
Take me to the magic of the moment
On a glory night
Where the children of tomorrow share their dreams
With you and me
Take me to the magic of the moment
On a glory night
Where the children of tomorrow dream away
In the Siroco of change
The Siroco of change blows straight
Into the face of time
Like a stormwind that will ring
The freedom kuffar bell for peace of mind
Let your islamic war drummer sing
What my guitar wants to say
Take me to the magic of the moment
On a glory night
Where the children of tomorrow share their dreams
With you and me
Take me to the magic of the moment
On a glory night
Where the children of tomorrow dream away
In the Siroco of change "
From http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taVW8Kv2HcQ
Final ammendment to current clip would be the the overthrown of Islamic republic of Iran.
Ibrahim really a good
Ibrahim really a good article. Good start would like more from you.
About being published in main stream media you either have to be a terrorist backed or have to pay them handsomely.
But still you can forward the article to all the media dailies by e-mail.
Just a try.
AMIM Well about being
AMIM
Well about being friendly with neighbors I think Pakistan (Now Taliban) and Bangladesh are very friendly by sending their messengers of peace.
Have you recently consulted a shrink.
Your right and left brain lobe don't seem to aligned.
Amina is showing sings of the
Amina is showing sings of the final stage of lunacy. After a few days she will have to leave Heera Mandi.
Kamin AMIM You are right.
Kamin AMIM
You are right. Now, you must pack up from the Bombay slum where your kunba presently dwell, gather all your beard monkeys and burqua clad clan and escape to Mohammadan paradises in Pakistan or the middle east.
That will be your chance to do ecstatic bum-dance with other beard monkeys away from sick hindutva lands. Good idea, isn`t it you whiskered baboon?
Sapient article Ibrahim. Good
Sapient article Ibrahim. Good work!
One suggestion. If you want to send it to mainstream media, just draw some comparision with the early kings of kashmir and the peaceful times, and the stark contrast of today which you indicated in your article. It will give balance. You will get a lot of information on this in Rajtarangini by Kallan.
Kam Baksh I am studying the
Kam Baksh
I am studying the Rajtanagiri. I will be out soon with a new article on the history of kashmir. Thanks for the suggestion, dear friend.
Pakistan a land of starving
Pakistan a land of starving millions. A country with only $3 billion in deposits, a non existant economy or production houses. Most of Pakistan's economy is driven by the fuedal lords who continue to dominate the senario in Pakistan. The Punjabi Fuedal lords have managed to fill their coffers while the poor muslims die in starvation.
Contrast that with India, a booming economy with positive signs of growth, and the second fastest growing economy in the world. India's It and services sectors are second only to that of USA. Even in the face of attacks by Islamic terrorists, india has managed a great economy. With an anual GDp of 1.5 trillion dollars, India is a force to recon with.
This growth has stuck like a thorn in the heart of Isl;amic fundamentalist Pakistanis, who are incapable of any sort of growth, besides the growth of beards. Hence Pakistanis and their agents in India the Muslims, like Amina bai, continue to pull India down with their ugly Islamic tactics. Following the teachings of their dirty prophet Muhammad, they kill innocents and spread incorrect information. This is a direct result of an Islamic upbringing, which shadows on their own selves.
Perhaps the time has come for ordinary Indians to standup and fight these people on the ground. They are few and we are many, they are feeble and we are strong, they are liars and the truth is with us, they are fools and we are the wise guys, they unkempt and ugly and we are superior due to our education and fairness. Let us crush these enemies of our motherland and send them back to where they belong.
I thought this was a site
I thought this was a site dedicated to promoting values of democracy in the muslim society. Ali sina your site is being hijacked by Hindu fundamentalist aiming at promoting their destructive agenda of genocide. How can you justify their 'supremacist' statements-" they unkempt and ugly and we are superior due to our education and fairness".
The use of obscene languages and derogatory reference that these individuals use establishes their helplessness against truth. I would request Mr Sina to limit this forum to engaging Muslims in their matters of faith and beliefs. I am noticing a shift in your focus. Possibly because you have exhausted all the hate propaganda issues that could be used against Islam. I remember coming across your thought that this site was aimed at people to leave the fold of Islam and adopt any religion other than it or become an atheist/humanist. Ali Sina in order to keep the spirit for which this site seems to have been formed you should not fall prey to this extremist view. Wish you good luck in your futile endeavor. I wouldn’t mind if I am given a royal ignore by the members of this forum or I am lashed at with their helpless hurls of abuses and swearings. I request not be banned from posting on this site. Maybe my postings will rejuvenate this racist cadre and provide you with more fodder for your smear campaign.
We live in a time where religion has become the ‘political scapegoat ‘. Religion is being invoked upon to undermine the ground realities of the past and present it in the light of political convenience of today Should we start talking 'gentlemen'?
FaithinOne it seems you never
FaithinOne it seems you never read quran its worst than the language used here.
And which has been the most destructive religion in this world by killing millions , demolishing churches & temples, raping the non muslim women in the name religion.
Even going to an extent of raping Muslim women to get suicide bombers.
Have you ever got guts to condemn them.
No its from your heart you like these thing done to non-muslim.
Dear Raja, It seems that you
Dear Raja,
It seems that you are one of those ill informed right wing Hindus who derive the legitimacy of their faith from their hatred towards Muslims. It is unfortunate to find the followers of Hinduism which has an ancient origin being so hostile to a refreshing and legitimate idea of oneness of god. An idea espoused by some of the great religions of the world i.e. Christianity and Judaism. I guess the fundamentals of paganism remain the same. Its ancient, regressive, racists, castiest, unprogressive picture seems well hidden in the modern gleam of shared cultural values of secular India. It is people like you who hate the very secular fabric of our nation. The economic growth that we enjoy is a result of our economic policies of liberalization and globalization. Last time I checked the sacred texts of Hinduism- the Vedas, Upanishads and Puranas I found no mention of these modern economic principles. The great epics of Mahabharata or Ramayana deal with matters very distant from the principles of democracy and Capitalism.
Well if we had to follow the Vedas our society would divided into four casts-Brâhmanas, Kshatriyas, Vaisyas, and Sûdras. ‘Amongst these, each preceding (caste) is superior by birth to the one following’-(APASTAMBA- PRASNA I, PATALA 1, KHANDA 1) According to The Sacred Laws of the Aryas ‘To serve the other (three) castes (is ordained) for the Sûdra’ and ‘ The higher the caste (which he serves) the greater is the merit’. ‘ Intercourse, eating, and intermarriage with them should be avoided’ The picture of Modern India seems a far cry from how these texts envisaged our society to be. This racists concept can further be briefly touched in this justice system which in PRASNA II, PATALA 10, KHANDA 27 states –‘ A man of one of the first three castes (who commits adultery) with a woman of the Sûdra caste shall be banished.’ While in the same breath it ordains.’ A Sûdra (who commits adultery) with a woman of one of the first three castes shall suffer capital punishment’ Thank God the founders of the nation did not adopt this prejudiced view of society. So lay down your claim to fame for I have just started. The point I am trying to make is religion only has positive influences to make to a society. The evils of the society cannot be sanctioned to the religious texts of a religion. Religion is the same from prophet Adam until today. The Quran says-
‘The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah - the which We have sent by inspiration to thee - and that which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: Namely, that ye should remain steadfast in religion, and make no divisions therein: to those who worship other things than Allah, hard is the (way) to which thou callest them. Allah chooses to Himself those whom He pleases, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him).’
( Ash-Shura, Chapter #42, Verse #13)
The prosterity of Adam is a universally accepted truth and Quran graciously confirms it.
‘Those were some of the prophets on whom Allah did bestow His Grace,- of the posterity of adam, and of those who We carried (in the Ark) with Noah, and of the posterity of Abraham and Israel of those whom We guided and chose. Whenever the Signs of ((Allah)) Most Gracious were rehearsed to them, they would fall down in prostrate adoration and in tears.
( Maryam, Chapter #19, Verse #58)
Contrary to popular hate driven beliefs. Islam establishes the universality of all religion. The proofs are many and for that I would refer you to an honest reading of the Quran.
Referring to its view of justice the Quran states-
“ The recompense for an injury is an injury equal thereto (in degree): but if a person forgives and makes reconciliation, his reward is due from Allah. for ((Allah)) loveth not those who do wrong. “
( Ash-Shura, Chapter #42, Verse #40)
A very alien concept of equality to the ancient belief system where a low caste ends up getting capital punishment while the superiors are simply ‘banished’ for a crime of same degree. I was casually reading through these texts and I came across glaring and hidden realities of this belief system. I will just copy-paste some for the readers
PRASNA II, PATALA 10, KHANDA 26.- . If he has actually committed adultery, his organ shall be cut off together with the testicles.-
PRASNA I, PATALA 9, KHANDA 25-
1. He who has had connection with a Guru's wife shall cut off his organ together with the testicles, take them into his joined hands and walk towards the south without stopping, until he falls down dead. 2. Or he may die embracing a heated metal image of a woman.3. A drinker of spirituous liquor shall drink exceedingly hot liquor so that he dies.4. A thief shall go to the king with flying hair, carrying a club on his shoulder, and tell him his deed. He (the king) shall give him a blow with that (club). If the thief dies, his sin is expiated. 5.If he is forgiven (by the king), the guilt falls upon him who forgives him, 6. Or he may throw himself into the fire, or perform repeatedly severe austerities, 7. Or he may kill himself by diminishing daily his portion of food
PRASNA II, PATALA 9, KHANDA 24-
2. Now it can also be perceived by the senses that the (father) has been reproduced separately (in the son); for the likeness (of a father and of a son) is even visible, only (their) bodies are different.
3. 'These (sons) who live, fulfilling the rites taught (in the Veda), increase the fame and heavenly bliss of their departed ancestors.'
4. 'In this manner each succeeding (generation increases the fame and heavenly bliss) of the preceding ones.'
PRASNA II, PATALA 7, KHANDA 17
21. The following persons defile the company if they are invited to a funeral-sacrifice, viz. a leper, a bald man, the violator of another man's bed, the son of a Brâhmana who follows the profession of a Kshatriya, and the son of (a Brâhmana who by marrying first a Sûdra wife had himself become) a Sûdra, born from a Brâhmana woman.
PRASNA II, PATALA 6, KHANDA 14.
He should, during his lifetime, divide his wealth equally amongst his sons, excepting the eunuch, the mad man, and the outcast.
PRASNA II, PATALA 6, KHANDA 13.
4. If a man approaches a woman who had been married before, or was not legally married to him, or, belongs to a different caste, they both commit a sin.
5. Through their (sin) their son also becomes sinful. 6. A Brâhmana (says), 'The son belongs to the begetter.
7. Now they quote also (the following Gâthâ from the Veda): '(Having considered myself) formerly a father, I shall not now allow (any longer) my wives (to be approached by other men), since they have declared that a son belongs to the begetter in the world of Yama. The giver of the seed carries off the son after death in Yama's world; therefore they guard their wives, fearing the seed of strangers. Carefully watch over (the procreation of) your children, lest stranger seed be sown on your soil. In the next world the son belongs to the begetter, an (imprudent) husband makes the (begetting of) children vain (for himself).'
PRASNA I, PATALA 10, KHANDA
13. A wife is similar to the vessel which contains the curds (for the sacrifice). 13
14. For if one makes impure milk curdle (by mixing it with whey and water) in a milk-vessel and stirs it, no sacrificial rite can be performed with (the curds produced from) that. Just so no intercourse can be allowed with the impure seed which comes (from an Abhisasta).
Vishn´u Purán´a :BOOK I.:CHAP. X.
"When he has finished his studies, and given the parting donation to his preceptor, the man who wishes to lead the life of a householder must take a wife. "If he marry, he must select a maiden who is of a third of his age ; one who has not too much hair, but is not without any; one who is not very black nor yellow complexioned, and who is not from birth a cripple or deformed. He must not marry a girl who is vicious or unhealthy, of low origin, or labouring under disease; one who has been ill brought up; one who talks improperly; one who inherits some malady from father or mother; one who has a beard, or who is of a masculine appearance; one who speaks thick or thin, or croaks like a raven; one who keeps her eyes shut, or has the eyes very prominent; one who has hairy legs, or thick ancles; or one who has dimples in her cheeks when she laughs 8. Let not a wise and prudent man marry a girl of such a description: nor let a considerate man wed a girl of a harsh skin; or one with white nails; or one with red eyes, or with very fat hands and feet; or one who is a dwarf, or who is very tall; or one whose eyebrows meet, or whose teeth are far apart, and resemble tusks”.
I would also like the readers to sample some vedic hymns
Hymns to Agni
DECADE II Agni
. O Agni, God, the people sing reverent praise to thee for strength:
With terrors trouble thou the foe
DECADE III Agni
May Agni with his pointed blaze cast down each fierce devouring fiend:
May Agni win us wealth by war!
DECADE IV Indra
Drive all our enemies away, smite down the foes who press around,
And bring the wealth for which we long!
The readers should remember a muslim has been instructed not to be disrespectful to other people’s gods. Hence, I would refrain from the norm ( abuses and swearing) here. What we notice here is a verdict of inequality of men. Disregard for daughters is glaring as only the son can redeem the departed souls. Naturally, that makes them the only inheritors. There are some violent measures prescribed for punishments and meting justice. Also this principle of an off spring becoming sinful for the deeds of his parents. There seems to be no individuality and honest accountability in the scheme of divine justice. Islam teaches the fact that we all carry only ‘our’ own burdens. This is very just and sensible and is very much all modern systems of justice entail. Lepers and bald men are reviled. The women are referred to as a ‘vessel’ curd (yogurt) and ‘your soil.’ It also carries instructions to marry a girl a ‘third of his age’. And I am sure men didn’t marry late back then. That just leaves you to do the maths about the girl’s age.. It is very interesting to note the details in which an insensitive and racist description of beauty is elaborated upon.
I hate doing this to other people’s religious texts. The beauty of Islam is that it is defendable without using a message of hate and falsifying facts and attacking other people’s beliefs. As for the jews and Christians we acknowledge their books and their prophets hurling abuses (god forbid) would be a despicable act and in a way abusing at ourselves. My Dear Friend Raja I suggest you read the shastras, Vedas, Gita and the epics of Mahabharata and Ramayana first and open the Quran with an honest approach and I am sure you would leave your delusion far behind. That quest for inner peace that we try and achieve in the huffing and puffing of yogic meditations will seem unmeaning in the surety of Islam. They call the Quran violent and archaic. They seek knowledge about Islam from people who hate Islam or are ignorant of it. Islam’s books are not hidden. Don’t ask anyone what Islam is. Go read the Quran not just the references and verses that sites like these focus on. You claim Quran carries profanity and abuses. Your claim is based on confirmations of people who have taught you hatred. The claim is by scrutinizing select verses from your prejudiced eyes and forcing yourself to believe it is wrong. Read it again brother! Maybe if you were confident of your faith you would not be here attacking others.
Disclaimer: My comment is not
Disclaimer: My comment is not meant as a disrespect for the Hindu faith nor its gods. It is important that we do not colour political disputes and political agendas and ambitions with the paint of religion. Hope the honesty of my feelings will not be taken negatively.
FaithinOne, here are the
FaithinOne, here are the comments from the best of the western scientists on Vedanta. I took this from my friend's rebuttal to Bulbul Abul Kasem's article: Also, we know lot of garbage is written by mistranslating vedic verses. We don't care about it. Enjoy reading:
•Access to the Vedas is the greatest privilege this century may claim over all previous centuries.- Julius Robert Oppenheimer, Scientist and Philosopher.
•Vedanta is the most impressive metaphysics the human mind has conceived.- Alfred North Whiteland, British Mathematician
•The conception of the world as deduced from the Veda, and chiefly from the Upanishads, is indeed astounding – Max Mueller, German Indologist
•We owe a lot to Indians who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made- Albert Einstein, Scientist
•I go into the Upanishads to ask questions - Neil Borh, Nobel Laureate, 1922
•The Hindu religion is the only one of the world's great faiths dedicated to the idea that the Cosmos itself undergoes an immense, indeed an infinite, number of deaths and rebirths. It is the only religion in which the time scales correspond, to those of modern scientific cosmology. Its cycles run from our ordinary day and night to a day and night of Brahma, 8.64 billion years long. Longer than the age of the Earth or the Sun and about half the time since the Big Bang. And there are much longer time scales still – Carl Segan, Astrophysicist
•Land of religions, cradle of human race, birthplace of human speech, grandmother of legend, great grandmother of tradition. The land that all men desire to see and having seen once even by a glimpse, would not give that glimpse for the shows of the rest of the globe combined – Mark Twain, American author
•India is the mother of religion. In her are combined science and religion in perfect harmony, and that is the Hindu religion, and it is India that shall be again the spiritual mother of the world – Annie Besant, Social Activist
•In the family of religions, Hinduism is the wise old all-knowing mother. Its sacred books, the Vedas, claim, 'Truth is one, but sages call it by different names.' If only Islam, and all the rest of the monotheistic 'book' religions, had learned that lesson, all the horror of history's religious wars could have been avoided.- Robert Zaehner, British historian of religion
•Whenever I have read any part of the Vedas, I have felt that some unearthly and unknown light illuminated me. In the great teaching of the Vedas, there is no touch of sectarianism. It is of all ages, climes and nationalities and is the royal road for the attainment of the Great Knowledge. When I am at it, I feel that I am under the spangled heavens of a summer night.- Henry D Thoreau, Philosopher
•It is true that even across the Himalayan barrier India has sent to us such unquestionable gifts as grammar and logic, philosophy and fables, hypnotism and chess, and above all our numerals and our decimal system. But these are not the essence of her spirit; they are trifles compared to what we may learn from her in the future.- Will Durant, American Historian
•The Indian air surrounds us, the original thoughts of kindred spirits.....And O! how the mind is here washed clean of all its early ingrafted Jewish superstition! It is the most profitable and most elevating reading which is possible in the world. – Arthur Schopenhauer, German philosopher
faithinNone, we further know
faithinNone, we further know that Muslim hate the religion that is followed by the majority of the people living in any country. For example, Indian Muslims hate Hinduism more than Christianity or other religions. This is because they see it as an obstacle. If it is Palestine, they hate Jews; If it is Bosnia they hate Christians. Instead of following that Pedophile BA$TARD Prophet a$$hole Muhammad (My piss and $hit be upon him), better learn how your ancestors were created by sword to accept slummish religion--islam. For guidance, ask Ibrahim. FYKI, Ibrahim is a Kashmiri-born ex Muslim. He wants Islam to be out of India. I respect him for his nationalistic approach.
FaithinNone, your best buddy
FaithinNone, your best buddy Abul Kasem had written a derogatory article on Hinduism on IW. My friend Raj wrote an excellent rebuttal to that article. Bulbul Abul Kasem is in tough time since then. What you have written is similar to Arabic night expert Kasem. Read it at http://www.lulu.com/content/6097850
Correction, in comment 36, it
Correction, in comment 36, it should be converted instead of created.
At the foremost, do rest
At the foremost, do rest assured that because of their deeds, past and present, muslims verily deserve hatred of all the peoples of this world. They deserve to be systematically annihilated, because if they are not, they are going to destroy more civilizations on earth and cause untold miseries. Muslims are deluded fools, followers of a desert bedounin pedophile who is but long dead after having his time in the seventh century AD in distant Arabian desert. He has left behind an odious legacy though, an obnoxious taste of which still lingers on.
Now on your talk on Hinduism, a typical rant of a fledgling mullah who knows nothing except gaining more converts to Islamic cause.
Politics and economics by nature is not religion, even though they may be guided by religious morals. So trying to find solutions to these issues for contemporary society in religious texts by itself is stupid, to say the least.
Puranas are mythological tales. So is Mahabharata and Ramayana (although Mahabharata contains Bhagwat Geeta, to that extent it has religious content in it too). At the very best, all these texts contain some message of morality in their tales for contemporary minds. All the matters of legalistic standpoint and jurisprudence mentioned in these texts were meant for some society that existed at some point in the past. The modern society has evolved much, so these issues definitely needed revision, and quite rightly so, the modern hindu society does not follow most of those legal and social tenets contained in these texts. You copious quotes thus are mere verbiage and say little about religion called Hinduism that you attempt to speak about.
The same cannot be said of Quran, which is meant to be a text for all times, and is quite anachronous for today.
You mention:
That quest for inner peace that we try and achieve in the huffing and puffing of yogic meditations will seem unmeaning in the surety of Islam.
When you feel so arrogant about your belief, according to me any human being simply do not have any business to believe in Islam. Just discard it because it is a lie as a religion. The reason being Mohammedanism believe in one life, and that simply shows its poverty. Islam has not explored deeply enough to find past lives, and it cannot guarantee anything about the future. This religion born outside India is superficial. Its work is not in-depth research. All it preaches in the name of religion is to bang head on a carpet five times a day facing Arabian desert, kill non-islamic people, and preach violence to kids right since they are impressionable in their minds.
But in India for ten thousand years thousands of people have entered into self-realization and have
found that there is some light that remains forever. It goes on moving from one body to another body but is indestructible. Upanishads talk about it in most unequivocal manner, so does Bhagwat Geeta, and that is pure Hindu religion. Hinduism does not want you to believe it, it tells you to experiment. The basic tenet of Hindu religion is against beliefs, because every belief destroys you, destroys your thinking and there are techniques available in the religious practices that help you do that, which out of your ignorance and lack of character you call as huffing and puffing..
The prosterity of Adam is a universally accepted truth and Quran graciously confirms it
Just because muslims believe in this does not make it universal. According to religious thinking of the East which is far more ancient and refined compared to Abrahamic faiths, it is cock and bull story, cannot be proven in any manner. Now those who want to believe are merely left alone so long as they cause no harm to others. Muslims, however, demonstrably fall outside this ambit so deserve to be confronted. Their burliness has come of age.
The above post is for
The above post is for FaithOne
to sandeep, raja,etc my dear
to sandeep, raja,etc
my dear fellow indian brothers, it is a pity that u could not see that faith one and amin are the same person. the same islamic hateful speech, abeit disguised in a cover of descency.
i can't understand as to how you could fall for his taqiyya. i would have loved to break the new veneer that this deluded, deceptive muslimah called faith one, amim, one god, etc, has taken.
this just another of her deceits to trick the rest. alas! it takes one to be be one, such that he may know one. i hope u understand what iam talking about
FaithinOne says :"They call
FaithinOne says :"They call the Quran violent and archaic"
Why you couldn't see that it is violent and archaic. I am one of those billions who worried about Islam. I recently stumbled into this site, and found relief from Dr. Ali Sina's convictions. I have found the answer for the question why Muslims behave in this manner in many parts of the world. They could not find peace with the Hindus in Kashmir, with the Jews in Palestine, with the Buddhists in Southern Thailand, with Christians in Philippines and in other parts of the world. Can you answer me honestly? Why do they behave in this manner?
first and formeost any
first and formeost any comparison between semitic faiths and eastern faiths is like a waste of time. futhermore the only semitic faith that can be compared to hindusim is chritianity. comparing islam with hindusim is like comparing dung cakes with with a chocolate cake.
islam not even a religion, its a merely dogma, a murderuos cult. muslims are the best representatives of islam. 90% of the world terrorists, are muslims, and they kill in the name of allah.
so faith one perhaps you shoudl read the quran once again before coming up with this comparitives nonsesnse. sadly there are no muslims, who can really be called scholars. what they actually are , are hatemongers and decievers. their deception is very powerful as well as seductive.
faith one is henious muslim with hatred in his heart. this is the result of a hateful islamic upbringing and nothing else.
#43 Ibrahim Neither Judaism,
#43 Ibrahim
Neither Judaism, Christendom or Islam came from Abraham.
Judaism was created by Jews in Iran under King Cyrus and written by rabbis who said the Talmud was their writing and not from God, Jerusalem Talmud also.. Torah came from Moses, thus Abrahamic.
Christianity came from Jesus a descendant of Abraham.
Christendom was created by Constantine in 325 CE at the Council of Nicea.
Islam was created by a mad max of Arabia, Muhammad bin Abdullah.
Ishamel was the son of an Egyptian slave girl and he had 12 sons and all were married to many women. Ishamel married an Egyptian which would make his sons 3/4 Egyptian or Hamitic. Now is Muhammad claims Semitic heritage, then by the time it reached him the people had married and intermarried so many times he couldnt prove it any way. The 10 tribes of Jews who went separate from the last two intermarried. They were wiped out as being Jewish. The Bible said Ishamel would become a wild ass and would hate his brothers. Chilren were considered what the mothers were as the men had many wives and slaves. Islam says Muhammad had a white penis and white underarms.
Arabs changed the way they perceived children as the father became the way children were perceived, e.g. what race they were. This caused the Muslims to increase in population.
Either way none are Abrahamic. Abraham married only one woman, Sarah. He just took up with Keturah and sexed Hagar for a child. He had 6 other children after Isaac was born. Ishmael was put out of the house and sent back to Egypt with his mother Hagar. After Sarah died he had a concubine named Keturah whose children and Ishamel got gifts and sent away. Isaac got the inheritance.
Faith in One is as sick as Muhammad was. A truly psychotic individual for whom there is not much if any possible help in restoring any semblance of sanity.
Dear Rationalist< It was
Dear Rationalist<
It was quite a shrug of denial! It is this specific point I was trying to put across. You claimed this to be a ‘mistranslation’.of Vedic verses. Surely I am not privy to Abul Kassem’s intentions when he wrote his piece. It seems that he always has a message of hatred against all religions. This is precisely why he finds an audience on this portal aimed at stirring hatred. Beyond the anonymity of this cyber fantasy it seems a majority of writers have little or no credibility in the real academic and theological world. These people pose as ‘ex-muslims’ I wonder even if they ever were Muslims. Coming back to that mistranslation point of yours. Ali Sina usually uses the label of apologists whenever an individual claims misinterpretation or mistranslation. Only the versions his cronies and he put on the table is the whole ‘truth’. But then again this was not a Muslim claiming it so I am sure Ali Sina’s team would prefer swallowing this bitter pill.
I can surely speak for my understanding of the Hindu texts. I believe as a muslim that God has ordained one universal religion. It is this belief that seems a far cry from the Islam-haters supremacist logic. He has sent one true ‘deen’ of worship of one and only god. It is a belief that is envisioned even by Hindus in the form of ‘Brahma’- the creator.( a line of thinking toed by a large section of learned Hindus I have interacted with) Keeping this in context I would like to elaborate how Islam views the evolutions of religion if we were to speak so.
(15) Those were some of the prophets on whom Allah did bestow His Grace,- of the posterity of Adam, and of those who We carried (in the Ark) with Noah, and of the posterity of Abraham and Israel of those whom We guided and chose. Whenever the Signs of ((Allah)) Most Gracious were rehearsed to them, they would fall down in prostrate adoration and in tears.
( , Maryam, Chapter #19, Verse #58)
The concept that prophethood originated with Abraham is what leads people to misjudge God’s wisdom and confine this concept of Universal religion within the ambit of Abrahamical faiths. The traditions of messengers being sent to different societies and nations begins with Prophet Adam. As with all prophets a part of the people accepted them and the majority rejected. This continued until the Last Prophet ( Peace be upon him). Their messages were addressed to the people to whom they were sent. The depth of the message was based according to the needs of the time and issues confronting people of the time. It is plausible to understand what their fate had been given the hostility we see to the last prophet more than a thousand years later. Subsequently through time and age God kept sending his messengers ordaining the worship of one and only god. Significant and most relevant for our times is the posterity of Abraham as three great religions of modern times find a bloodline with prophet Abraham. Prophet Moses was sent to the Children of Israel and Jesus was born amongst them to reform them after they were veering away from the teachings of the torah. And the last prophet (peace be upon him) was sent to complete and perfect the faith that god established from the inception of Adam. It must be imprudent to presume that the creator of the universe was unable to find the region in the world that has evolved as Modern India. Hence, unquestionably the same series of messengers must have arrived with their teachings of monotheism and purity. As with all generations there must have been some good people who would have adopted the teachings of their messenger stabilizing and preserving society. It is these ideals that may have found an influence on the morals of people that have sustained to this date. How else can you explain the common distinction between good and evil in most of the matters amongst mankind. Unfortunately, there are two major sins as defined by god- ascribing partners to god and denial of god. This was where a majority of people faltered in treading the line of faith. They found themselves lost in the worships of elements of nature and finding God for different seasons and reasons in the fables of old. They forsook god in its purity. Hence with subsequent messengers God warned people to remind and reform people with the same message till the last prophet.
Dealing with your comment I have the following point to make against your allegations of Muslims being at confrontation with the majority population. Like I said earlier political and social ambitions of a people has nothing to do with the teachings of the religion that they follow. It is a notion that is a mere tool of convenience to dismiss objective analysis of a socio-political event in history. I believe an attempt at ethnic cleansing in Bosnia justified the local populace to resent the onslaught of Serbian regime of that time. After any conflict the wounds take time to heal and there will be obvious hostility between the tormentor and the victim. You cant expect an embrace with blood stained arms. The Bosnian issue was an act of the regime not sanctioned or appreciated by the Christian world as a whole. Remember how the western world responded albeit after much delay to a genocide so close to home. Get your facts correct on this one. With regards to the Arab-Israeli conflict it will be disheartening reminder that the Arabs of Palestine co existed in harmony with the Jews until they were driven from their homes and establishment of the state of Israel. A modern event that dates back to 1948. Islam and Judaism co existed in that land all along. As for the muslims hating hindus will continue to remain a wish for your extremist friends. The fabric of this nation is strong enough. It is an ideological wish of the fundamentalists so that they can carry out their pogrom on this pretext. This tirade of Islam and the sword is a futile rant. The world has witnessed political expansionism and dominance either against or for civilizations through time immemorial. It would be a lie to defunct the conflicts of the ancient. I am sure you will be smart enough not to label the bad guys in Mahabharata as Muslims. Let us keep this topic for some other time. I am more than willing to discuss this independently.
To brother Sandeep,
“muslims verily deserve hatred of all the peoples of this world. They deserve to be systematically annihilated,”
Need I comment on that. This is typical of those sensible people who are misled by hate groups like these to hate for the sake of hating only. We have to remind ourselves that we have been over dosed with colonial versions of history. They divided and ruled us. It was important for them to introduce these concocted versions of hindu and Muslim acrimony without which they would not have been able to spread their tentacles over our country. It is so engrained in us that we have to look childishly to the western world for approval and a pat on our back. Even Mr Rationalist derives the legitimacy of his faith by words of approval by western scholars. He draws the sense of comfort in his faith from the remarks and works Of ‘ the best of the western scientists on Vedanta’.
I have not claimed the Puranas to be mythological tales although you must have wished in order to negate the predominant fact in my writing. I agree with you on this point of yours- “All the matters of legalistic standpoint and jurisprudence mentioned in these texts were meant for some society that existed at some point in the past. The modern society has evolved much, so these issues definitely needed revision” But the Islamic standpoint keeps its faith on the wisdom of the laws set in the Quran. There are certain parameters for the conditions of its applicability that your prejudiced and arrogant mindset will never interpret. Islam is a simple religion dealing with a complex system of humanity. None of these hate sites will help your understanding of it. I can only suggest an independent study of this open religion.
When a Muslim hater approaches Islam they see religion in historical and cultural terms This obviously deprives them to see the internal logic and purity of this religion.
Finally the more you swear and abuse us the more helpless you guys seem.
Ali Sina please get your guys to stop swearing otherwise your site will continue to lose its credibility with your fantasized ‘potential renegades’.
P.S THE ABOVE COMMENT RESPONDS TO COMMENT NO 40 only.
p.s. a small correction my
p.s. a small correction my last posts is a response to all comments UPTO number 40 . only
Dear Ibrahim , Firstly my
Dear Ibrahim ,
Firstly my humble advise to you is to use your real name or a handle that reflects your stand on this issue. This deceitful use of Muslim names to con people into thinking of you as an ex-Muslim is deplorable.
This notion that Amim and I are the same person should be junked. I was a regular visitor on this faith freedom website for probably over a year. But I never participated or commented on any of the articles. I don’t have to hide behind a veneer of deceit as most of the contributors do. I am not pretending to be an ex muslim using stereotypical muslim names. My handle reflects my belief for which I am not embarrassed or in need of ‘buddies’ to approve of it. Besides I feel the names that you guys chose have sub continental influences. So its not hard to guess where the gang of bullies come from. The veil has been lifted and all the readers here who had come out of curiosity to find depravity and falsehood in this religion should know this. The ‘falsehood’ they are trying to expose so passionately and lunatically is nothing but distortions of mind and malaise of their hearts. When they cannot defend through logic they abuse our prophets like you see in RaisingHead’s comments. This is just a ploy to pacify their distressed souls who are are at unease at the plain simple logic and a direction on how to follow the straight path.. They are jealous of how they had to abandon a majority of their regressive ancient practices. Islam enjoys the same degree of respectability and relevance today by its followers (Muslims) despite others continuing to force on them their practice of ‘deserting’ their beliefs as per the convenience of the time. It is this surety and strength of their belief that they mistake it as a Muslims’s arrogance. Arrogance is to be found in your supremacist, racial and genocidal remarks. As for a Muslim his surety in his religion is a feeling of inner calm that maybe hard for these ‘posers’ to understand However, a Muslim simply does not revel in this gift and selfishly guards it. The religion of Islam is to be shared. Its teachings are open to scrutiny and available for all to access. It is not hidden in the closet of a priest nor is it the reserve of an individual destined by birth. Islam is a religion for all .therefore it is the most debated and criticized religion. Most people who enter this faith are initially clouded by the dogmas and prejudices. These are the same people who later on find their answers in their very questions they ask. The biggest critics of Islam have fortunately ended up being the most notable and righteous Muslims. The criticism of Islam will open more doors for understanding. This criticism should be genuine and should not an attempt to ‘settle scores’. The engrained values of hatred will perish once you explore it in a genuine quest for truth.
Dear Roman, Thanks for being
Dear Roman,
Thanks for being decent with me. I feel you have a genuine query and I shall attempt to answer this with all honesty. Let us put this question in context of this forum. If you honestly read through whole website I would like you to analyze how people are deceiving others. They claim Islam is all about teaching to kill. If it were so which certainly it isn’t , these guys here would be the best of Muslims. See the hate and violence they advocate against Muslims. Quran does mention fighting an oppressing enemy. Quran is simply not just a piece of literature for the reading pleasure and appreciation of a select few. It is a book by which god has ordained certain duties and commands. It is through this book that God confirms the events of the past and at times there is comfortable similarity with the old and new testament. God introduces himself, describes the purpose of our existence, comforts the doers of good and warns the evil doers. Certainly Quran was revealed in parts and in many instances these revelations were inspired on occurrence of certain events and contexts. The Quran also teaches us what is lawful and what isn’t. The Quran being the guiding principle of Humanity couldn’t simply avoid the fundamental issue of conflicts that have plagued the world from the very beginning. God in this instance lays down the principles of the rights and wrongs of a conflict and how a true believer should conduct himself in event of conflicts and clashes. God ordains to defend against aggression and fight against injustice. The fight of good over evil is very much part of all major religions. It is only in the case of Islam that people take such extreme aversion to a fundamental value of humanity-‘victory of good over evil’ This concept of ‘Jihad’ – striving has many forms. In an armed conflict you strive with your weapon. In matters of faith you strive with your belief. In much trivial matters you strive against yourself overcoming your weakening wants with the determination of your personality. The list goes on and I believe nothing better than the Quran can explain it.
It was important to mention the above points because the haters of islam would like to project it as a marching cavalry of ruffians wielding swords and plundering the weak. Unfortunately for them their shallow and skewed understanding fails to appreciate the depth of this concept.
‘why Muslims behave in this manner?’ I guess everyone has this vision of muslims having secret counsels indoctrinating it followers in mosques around the world to ferment trouble. This is by far a lie forged against this community, much more ardently in the recent past by the genocidal forces. These genocidal forces view Islam as an evil satanic cult (Of more than a billion followers) hiding their sacred texts lest it shall reveal the ‘evil’ that their hearts crave for. By the grace of god it isn’t anything of that sort. They have an apocalyptical view of this world and see themselves been given this opportunity by providence to annihilate this evil. It is a deceptive, prejudiced, supremacist, and racial mindset which craves violence and destruction. They chose this self prescribed method of intimidation and fear tactics and push the others back against the wall. Their resentment and issues are muffled in their maddening screams of ‘traitor’ and ‘terrorists’ and normal peace loving people are given this sense of divine injunction to hate anybody they like them to hate.
Now regarding specific issues of Hindus and Muslims in Kashmir. The question itself shows how we have been indoctrinated by the haters of Islam. I agree that most people do this unknowingly. A part of growing up prejudices for many. You asked why Muslims’ couldn’t find peace?’ How about if I retort with the same question the other way round ‘ Why Hindus could not find peace?’ Kashmir is a baggage consigned to us by twists and turns of History. The issue of Kashmir is a political conflict that involves Muslims and Hindus. The influence of Islam is just to the extent that it involves its followers. Hypothetically, It could have been a conflict between locals of Christian faith and Sikhs and probably if either side felt as intimidated as in the current scenario this conflict too would have dragged on for generations. The khalsa quest for an independent khalistan did not make the teachings of Sikhism violent. Neither does the quest of an Elam and suicide bombings by LTTE make the faith of Hinduism violent. Does the onslaught of the srilankan army make Buddhism a violent religion? These are territorial disputes with political and worldly consequences. The sides can evoke their gods in pleading for his help in achievement of their goals. At times people are rallied behind a cause by calling upon religious allegiances. This is a fact of life that we all have to live with. Brothers fight over the properties of their deceased parents? In this case there is a conflict over a territory that involves millions of people..
With regards to the southern Thailand skirmish I will have to research more on that to comment on it. However the Arab-israeli conflict is the mother of all conflicts that constantly engage the powers that be in the world. This is nothing but a territorial dispute with an important place of worship caught in this conflict. Before the establishment of state of Israel the land was an extension of Jordan and Egypt. The arabs and Jews lived side by side probably with minor neighborly disputes as is the nature of men. But the Jewish people believe that god had sanctioned the land to them centuries ago. The 40’s were a turbulent period in world history. The British empire was crippling and the Ottomans left a vacuum that no one filled in their capacity. Nationalist ambitions swept through the colonies. The scars of Holocaust were fresh. The Zionist realized that the time had come that Europe was could no longer be deemed a sanctuary. It was time to have their own state of Israel. A Zionist movement was mobilized and the Palestinians were systematically driven out from their lands to the fringes of the ‘promised land.’ It is like someone coming to your home and saying by the authority of so and so religious book your land on which you have built your home is part of my inheritance from my forefathers several thousand years ago. I wonder how peacefully you would vacate your home and see it bulldozed in front of your eyes. These people have been made refugees in the fringes of their hometowns. It will be unnatural and inhumane to disregard their resentment towards the occupiers of their lands. This is a matter of perception. Islam guides its followers to stand up against injustices and not to fear the oppressor. Does this guidance defy any honest human judgment? I There are many conflicts in the world that are independent of Muslim influence- the Zimbabwean and the North Korean dispute. Who do we blame there – Jesus Christ or Atheism?
FaithinOne, let me respond to
FaithinOne, let me respond to your comments. I don't take solace in the praises heaped on Hinduism by western scientists. I can find innumerable Indian sages praising the wealth of information in our scriptures. Beneficialindu-gifted systems such as yoga and meditation are becoming extremely popular in Europe, US, South America, Australia, and New Zealand. OTOH, all Muslim organizations in India and elsewhere (eg Malaysia) issue a fatwa against practicing yoga because one need to say OM. Is OM (just a sound) that heathen to Muslims?
I never say Hindu scriptures are the most perfect. I know that they were written by yogis, who performed tapas (penance), indulged in discussions, and wrote what they realised. If someone finds a mistake, I can correct it and move on. However, in case of Islam, you claim that Quran is the literal word of God. There are heaps of mistakes in Quran. Muhammad attacked tribes early in the morning when they were sleeping. He would take the wife of the Chief of tribe, decapitate the captured male tribes, and distribute the wives and children amongst his Jihadis as concubines and sex slaves. You know that and every Muslim knows too. How can you claim such a stupid man to be the Messenger of God? Earlier I never knew about Muhammad or Quran. Thanks to FFI, I know every nuke and corner of Islam. Man is inquisitive by nature. Initially I felt FFI was doing a wrong propaganda against Islam. Then I verified all sources by going through authentic translations from Pickthal, Yusufali, and the works of Ibn Ishaq. One needs to read hadiths to understand the voilent nature of Islam. I am sure, if you go through your own scriptures with an open mind, you will realise that it is a draconian cult and nothing more than that.
Finally if you are from the subcontinent, you must realise that Indian Kings did not oppress the Arabs. It was Arabs who waged war on India for almost 1000 yrs. How can you call tyrants like Muhammad Qasim, Muhammad Ghori, Ghaznavi, and others as humans?
Mr FaithOne: You have spun a
Mr FaithOne:
You have spun a whole range of text, rich in rhetoric, while lacking in any reasonable argument.It appears that you did not read properly what I wrote about Islam earlier and why it ought to be a lie only.
As a religion, it is a falsehood, because it tells you to believe in One God, Quran and finality of Mohammad. Now, how do you know? How can you prove? The lie is caught right there, because no muslim has ever proved it. Al Hillaj Mansoor tried to explore and find out, but he also said Anal Haq, and he was killed by muslims. What is so final about mohammd? Why can`t I achieve the state of bliss that mohammad was in (provided he was in the first place, which is another story for another time). Islam says Allah created everything. Now if creation happens as a rule, then who created Allah? The Islamic logic falls flat on the face. However, notwithstanding all its nonsense, people are still willing to let it exist so long as Islamists don’t bother others. But that is not the case. In pure unadulterated form, Muslims are terrorists like taliban and Indian mujahideen. So now, it has to cut both ways. Now, it has to be Miyan ki jooti, miyan ki chaand (Mullah`s sandals on mullah`s head)
Only because of unadulterated nuisance of Islam, we need to prove islam`s falsehood further by taking a peek into Hinduism or Buddhism. Hinduism does not want you to believe anything, it tells you to experiment, discover and self-realize. Same with Buddhism. The basic tenet of Hindu religion is against beliefs, because every belief destroys you, destroys your thinking. That is the reason, at the highest expressions of self-realization, seers have given only maxims, like Tatwam Asi (You are that) or Aham Brahmasmi (I am the cosmos), Sat-chit-anand, Satyam-Shivam-Sundaram etc. You can write a litany of literature on each such maxim, and that is exactly you find in hindu philosophy. There are techniques available in the religious practices (108 in hindu and 4 in Buddhist practices total 112) that help you to discover and self realize. And to those who are ignorant, spiritual journey is beginning with various modes of worshipping of any kind of God for all times and seasons till such time a stage is reached to discover the formless and discard the idol (you may have seen the ritualistic practice of immersing the idols after worship, which is now symbolic but manifests a deeper meaning). An ignorant person knows only form, the formless is achieved through form in this manner. Now that is my way of life and I am not prepared to swallow non-sense of islam which Islamists want to shove down people`s throats by hook or by crook, by seduction or coercion.
Islam is falsehood also because it says Allah and worshipper are separate. Hinduism tells you that you merge with the cosmic consciousness when you realize. It is called Advaita, or non-dualism. That is what Mansoor also realized, who was then killed by violent musalmaans. Muslims believe in falsehood because they don`t know. They have only belief-system, while knowing comes from experience. Only experience muslims have is to kill innocents as preached in Koran. If they have known, they would not have called their God as one, because the feeling of God is infinite which Hindus correctly say as non-Dual, that is definition of infinity without boundaries, and when you say One, it means you have created boundary howsoever large, but still confined in a boundary called ONE GOD. So Islam is a false dogma, preaching intolerance, violence, cheating, wife battery and harming innocents in ever-creative ways.
To answer you specific quotes:
It is so engrained in us that we have to look childishly to the western world for approval and a pat on our back. Even Mr Rationalist derives the legitimacy of his faith by words of approval by western scholars. He draws the sense of comfort in his faith from the remarks and works Of ‘ the best of the western scientists on Vedanta’.
Rationalist is merely telling you that there are intelligent minds that have appreciated tenets of Hinduism. How can you expect a muslim to hold any level of appreciation here or to have an open mind, that is why you see quotes from only western thinkers.
Averring it as a childish outlook is due to your strange inferiority complex that you might harbor for being a muslim.
I have not claimed the Puranas to be mythological tales
It is not a question of your claim dude. It is a fact, read what I wrote again. Dude, if you are so knowledgeable on Puranas, tell us why timeline is never quoted in Puranas. Afterall, the people who have written such profound wisdoms as Upanishads and devised precise measurements of length of time up to kshana and pal could easily have devised methods to create a historic timeline?
Let us see how much understanding you have here before we discuss it any further.
Actually, all your intent here is to smear Hinduism and make it look bad, to justify your twisted ideology of subjugation called Islam by cherry picking outdated quotes from puranas that are irrelevant today. Dude, if hindus get down to dismantling your islam, it will fall like a pack of cards because islam has nothing. The little mysticism that was there is all gone (it is not for no reason that mystics like Muinuddin Chisti and Nizamuddin Aulia happened in India). The present culmination of Islamic consciousness is Taliban, it needs to be crushed. We as people have explored the deepest human consciousness, individuals are trying to benefit from the collective wisdom gained so far, and we still have great deal of tolerance for Islamic nonsense even after getting so thoroughly harassed and humiliated by muslims of various hues so long as muslims mind their own business.
But the Islamic standpoint keeps its faith on the wisdom of the laws set in the Quran. There are certain parameters for the conditions of its applicability that your prejudiced and arrogant mindset will never interpret. Islam is a simple religion dealing with a complex system of humanity. None of these hate sites will help your understanding of it. I can only suggest an independent study of this open religion.
This site has exposed islam completely. Tell us where facts are misrepresented. I would like to see things in correct perspective for fairness sake.
When a Muslim hater approaches Islam they see religion in historical and cultural terms This obviously deprives them to see the internal logic and purity of this religion.
Tell a dimension in which islam could be understood as you would want it be understood. Let us explore it in that dimension.