Debate with convert Donald Morgan part 7
Submitted by Ali Sina on Sat, 04/04/2009 - 06:00
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ALI SINA’S ‘BACK UP’ PLAN
On page 70 in Ali Sina’s book he states the following, and I quote:
‘Narcissists do not directly promote themselves. They hide behind the veneer of modesty, while they elevate their god, ideology, cause or religion, which in reality is their own alter ego. They may present themselves as mere messengers, simple, humble, self-effacing heralds of this or that mighty and all-powerful deity, or all-encompassing cause, but they make it clear that they are the only ones who know the cause and are extremely intolerant and unforgiving of dissenters and recalcitrants’
This passage automatically set off ‘red flags’ for me when I read it. The reason it raised suspicion is because there was no footnote attached. This statement did not come from a reference or a ‘qualified’ resource. It didn’t even come from Dr. Sam Vaknin fake Ph.D. Where did this passage come from? If it came from some resource, Ali Sina would have listed it in a footnote! If this statement did not come from a reference or resource it must have come directly from Ali Sina himself. I asked myself again and again, why Ali Sina would place this in his book if it didn’t come from a qualified psychiatric professional. Then, like a ton of bricks, the answer hit me. This is Ali Sina’s ‘back up’ plan. This is the ‘backdoor’ by which Ali Sina can escape when confronted with overwhelming evidence. In a sense, this is the ‘cop out’ Ali Sina can use at his discretion when proof of Muhammad not suffering from NPD is brought to the table. It occurred to me that it doesn’t matter how many examples from the Hadith or the Quran, about Muhammad, that would disqualify him as being a NPD sufferer were brought to the table because in the end, Ali Sina could always use his ‘back up’ plan or ‘backdoor’ by saying:
‘Narcissists do not directly promote themselves. They hide behind
the veneer of modesty, while they elevate their god, ideology, cause or
religion, which in reality is their own alter ego.’ (pay close attention to the bold writing)
An example of how this ‘back up’ plan can be deployed when needed is the following hypothetical (made up) conversation:
Me: Ali Sina, Muhammad was offered status, money and keys to the Kabbah by the pagan Arabs in exchange for the immediate halt of his message of Islam. Muhammad replied saying that if they (pagan Arabs) were to place the moon in his left hand and the sun in his right hand, he would never give up the message (Islam), which was sent by God. If Muhammad had NPD, and NPD sufferers crave power and status, he would have taken this offer, as it gave him what every NPD sufferer craves, ‘Status’. The fact that he rejected this offer and took exile from Makkah as a result, shows he does not have NPD.
Ali Sina: Well Saadiq, you see, a narcissist hides behind the veneer of modesty, while they elevate their god, so this evidence you provide is no proof that Muhammad was not a narcissist.
Can you, the reader, see how this statement in Ali Sina’s book is nothing more than a dirty tactic he can use to get out of any conversation? The unbiased person who reads this can see it clearly!
This statement could be used to disqualify any evidence or proof that is brought up by myself or others. I know that by the end of this debate, Ali Sina will use this excuse, or one like it to wiggle his way out of the evidence I bring forth. All I ask is that the readers remember one thing. This statement about NPD did NOT come from a qualified professional! It is the workings and ideology of Ali Sina, who is NOT a qualified psychiatrist, nor an authority on the subject of mental disorders or narcissism. If the readers of this debate are able to see beyond this obvious deception, made by Ali Sina, they, like me, can say that this statement is worthless, as it did not come from a qualified reference or resource. Thus, it can’t be used in the argument.
Ali Sina
How do you know I am or I am not a mental health professional? I have not spoken of my professional background. Did Gabriel whisper it in your ear this? Don’t trust that guy. He lied to Muhammad a lot and told him a lot of stupid things that we are now finding in the Quran. He could be deceiving you too.
Now as far as that statement, yes it is mine, but you are not qualified to opine on it unless you show your qualification. By the way you conducted yourself in writing this so called rebuttal and the logical fallacies that you used I doubt you have a university qualification. Unless you got your diploma from a university in an Islamic country most universities churn their graduated a lot more familiar with logics.
Yes that statement is true. Narcissists never promote themselves directly. They are always the champions of a cause, a belief, something bigger then themselves. I have shown examples of various famous narcissists, and their causes, and their cults in my book. Narcissists are not fool. They know how to manipulate people. No one would follow another person without a cause, but if you give them a cause, something big, something worthy to die for, you can have them in your hand like putty. This cause can be nationalism, communism, socialism, fascism, monotheism, or whatever, but not capitalisms because capitalism is individualistic. No one will want to sacrifice himself for capitalism. It defeats the purpose. But if you excite people about the causes that require one-for-all-and-all-for-one mentality, you can create a cult around yourself.
Nonetheless, I did not refute the silly claim that Meccans offered wealth to Muhammad to stop preaching with this logic because it is a stupid and false claim. It just goes against reason. Imagine the scenario that the wealthy people of Mecca gather and say, this lunatic Muhammad had gathered a few slaves and low life moron around himself and is insulting our gods. So let all of us dig into our pockets and make him the wealthiest man in Mecca. Isn’t that laughable? How much one must be stupid to believe in this nonsense? Two minutes of rational thinking would prove all the claims of Islam are false, but alas a billion Muslims rehash these stupidities for 1400 years and are incapable thinking.
Although this story is a ludicrous, the fact that narcissists are known to refuse offers to save their pride is a well known fact.
Narcissist are extremely careful about self preservation and are willing to burn the world in order to save their own august and important self. However, what really matters to a narcissist most is his pride. They will even accept death for their pride. Saddam Hussein was a good example. In the war of 2003, he was offered to take his stolen wealth and go and live in Russia, but surrender Iraq without dragging it into war. He refused. Partly because he was fooled by the French whom he thought would save him at the end and party because his pride was too important for him.
Hitler fought to the last minute a losing war and committed suicide before surrendering. All a narcissist has, is his pride. You take that away and nothing is left. For the narcissist, “death in dignity is better than life in dishonor,” These were the final words of Jim Jones when he goaded his followers to drink from the cyanide laced Cool Aid.
The problem with you Donald is that you chose a wrong subject to refute. You probably would have not made a complete ass of yourself had you chosen a subject you were more familiar with, like pedophilia, raid or rape. You don’t know anything about narcissism and there you are trying to discredit Sam Vaknin the man that many call one of the most authoritative people on the subject. You took a bite of something that was too big for your mouth. Hopefully, this experience will serve you as a lesson. Next time challenge someone of your own size. You don’t want to get your nose bloodied in the first round and become the laughing stock of the world.
The following is the recapitulation of this long drivel. Here is where Donald is beating his chest and celebrating his victory. I am not going to respond to it because it’s answered above.
CONCLUSIONS
Most people I have debated, over the years, have been Christian missionaries. I have to admit that my experience in debating ex-Muslims, turned atheists or Christians is limited. Since 9 11 we have seen an increase in the works of such people like Ali Sina and others like Irshad Manji. It is a responsibility for the Muslims to answer their call and expose their flawed logic and misrepresentation of Islam. In my investigation into this phenomena, I have found that people like Ali Sina base their argument on ‘cultural Islam’. In my travels throughout South East Asia, I have seen these how culture and innovation seep into the teachings of Islam, turning it into something that resembles true Islam. Some people can’t distinguish the difference between the taste of real sugar and fake sugar (sweetener), but for those of us who can, we taste the sweetness of true Islam, everyday in our lives!
The question of what was proven in my first half of the debate comes into question. Thus far, I was able to prove the following:
1. Ali Sina uses sources that are considered unqualified
2. Ali Sina injects his opinions, based on unqualified sources when speaking about narcissism or NPD.
3. Ali Sina uses half truths to prove his arguments
4. Show aspects from Muhammad’s life that are no typical traits of a person who suffers from NPD.
5. Show that the examples Ali Sina uses in the life of Muhammad to prove he had NPD are incorrect
In a court of law all the defense has to do to attain an acquittal of any charge is show reasonable doubt. I believe that in this first part of the debate, I have done just that. Not only was I able to prove reasonable doubt, I also proved that the prosecution (Ali Sina) has put into evidence articles that are grossly questionable and that he bases his case on faulty interpretation and discreditable witness testimony.
It is now up to Ali Sina to prove the following, if he wants to save face with his readers:
1. Prove that source (i.e Dr. Sam Vaknin) is a qualified psychiatrist or doctor in the field of mental disorders.
2. Prove that the examples I used from the life of Muhammad are fabricated (believe me he can’t).
3. Answer for the misleading information he uses from the Quran to prove his point (making a statement and then putting beside it a Quranic reference, refer to page 61 of his book)
4. Answer for the misleading information he says comes from the lips of Muhammad (says Muhammad said so-and-so but does not give a reference of footnote, refer to page 62 of his book)
I would like to end this part of my debate by quoting from the Quran and the Hadith.
‘Muhammad is no more than a messenger and indeed (many) messengers have passed away before him…’ (Surah 3, verse 144)
The prophet Muhammad said: ‘Do not exaggerate in praising me as the Christians exaggerated in their praise the son of Maryam(Jesus). For indeed I am a slave, so say, 'The slave of Allah and His Messenger’
Such eloquent words to be found in the Quran and lips of Muhammad! Does this sound like a man who wants to be a God (as Ali Sina insists)? Are these the words of one who suffers from narcissistic personality disorder (NPD)? I leave the answer to these questions to the reader of this part of the debate.
Where is the response to the
Where is the response to the second part of his his writeup?
Donal Duck says Not only was
Donal Duck says
Not only was I able to prove reasonable doubt, I also proved that the prosecution (Ali Sina) has put into evidence articles that are grossly questionable and that he bases his case on faulty interpretation and discreditable witness testimony.
Does'nt he sound like a narcissist too?
How many in our mental
How many in our mental hospitals think they are some messiah or another, or that angels have sent them, etc? Joseph Smith of Mormonism said that the angel Gabriel spoke to him. Supposedly he told Joseph that all of the Christian churches and ministers were totally false, and that he alone, was chosen to fix everthing and create the perfect church. He was given an entirely new book to straighten things out, after those Jews and Christians (you know how they are) supposedly changed the scriptures (in what way?). Funny thing is, he also had done quite a few shenninigans and immoral/illegal things. Yet God seemed to not notice those little details about his life. I see a lot of similarities between him and Muhammed.
I think that the similarities
I think that the similarities between the two can be instructive.
Dear Mr. Morgan, Great job.
Dear Mr. Morgan,
Great job. Well done my son. "Ignorance is a Bliss". Now it is time for you to go take some college courses on Logic, Critical Analysis, Critical Thinking, Philosophical Investigations,..Well..you get the idea.
and by the way, go quick to the closest clinic. You have a gushing bloody nose man..go quick..
Donald Morgan ,i ask you to
Donald Morgan ,i ask you to know about of schizophrenia and see 'A beautiful mind" hollywood cinema.
//http://www.chovil.com// see this website.Mo sufered from this mental disorder and he asssumed all his ahllucinations and dilusions as gods revelations .Pepole with this disorder hear some sounds and words and even have some experices as dilusions .Mo was not a prophet at all.First you should know definition of the prophet or messenger or any enlightenment guru.He neither lead holy life nor never lead holy life.All morals are of islam are his referece morals.THe concept of god he preached is plagarised from judaism and stories are all twisted versions of christianity,judaism and pagan idol worshippers.If read Quron you will find many contradictions and blunders.Every chapter allah praises himself and all ways threanehell fire.Ironocally that ot only desret palm fire not any other betteer fire.Mo s paradiese is full of desert trees,date palm fruits ,and water springs flowing which are desert mans imaginations.A person from country like india will imagine his paradise with mango fruits and take wood trees.person from england may imagne paradise of apple trees.person from Us with redwood treees and cherry fruits.All quron is mohammads imaginations and hallucinations.A frog in well thinks only well is the wrold and he(frog )is the king and owner of well.don'tbe frog there is some thing else and more you should know.You should read scriptures of other religions to really understand the god and holy ways life.I suggest You toread life anad conversationds of Bhagwan buddha.If you taste suger,honey and nector then only you can judge the differences.If you live in the desert and confine to desert area only hen you believ that onnly desert palm tree is the best ,tallest and most useful.Come out of desert there are many relatively better useful ,taller trees and fruits are present like coconut,mango and redwood trees.Mo was not only evil he was mad also.All the present day terrorists and isamic invaders way of dark night wars,cheating,destroying,buring kaffirs temples and universities(eg Nalanada,Alexandria),beheading weapon less people are all got insiration from mad and evil mohammad.This Maha Mada(great evil) caused world greaest disaster.Mental slaves and weakminded irrationnal people are his strength.Islams strength is ginorence and darkness.It doesn't have logic,morals and compassion to stand on.don't get feared by psuedo hell or lured by psuedo animalistic pradise of sex.Sex is not for primarily for pleasure ,it is for progeneration .It is need for nature.Pleasure in sex is only associated with it just as hungry feel is associated in stomach as for biosignal indication to maintain body.sex and pleasure are controlled by different mechanisms.Ask any medico.then why you need to trust mohammad who was mad and lier.don't want to know the truth.Mohammad animalistic abnormal lust of sex ,marrying of daughter in law( and escaping in the name of allah) destroying drinking water wells,buring of trees are all evil and madly terroristic .If you really want peace and enlightenment then follow any other relatively better faiths.Islam is not for peace or enlightenment.It is for destruction and hate in the fear of psuedo hell and in the want of psuedo paradise.
I would like to ask the
I would like to ask the Americans on FFI, if its true that the Mormons believe that Yaweh actually is an alien living on some plannet and that Jesus and Lucifer are actually brothers and all the angels are actually children of Yaweh. I watched a video yesterday on Youtube, it was about the beliefs of the Mormons and I could not really what I saw with my own two eyes.
A person suffering from
A person suffering from severe pains of injuries may escape from them throgh pain killers or intoxication of alcohaol or narcotics.but does he really happy and cured them?ignorence is bliss!!! you shoul not be ignorence.You should have enough courage and inclination to know the truth.You should not run away from the bitter pill of medicine.You are free to use your own brain rationally with logic and reason.It is your right and gift from anture.Animals can not do this.No need to blindly follow what others have said.self declared prophets hammer our rationality and damge you brain with false fears of hell and lure of paradise.First know what you want?Seacrh for it where it exists.Other wise keep quiet but not get into madnessof islam and blindly belive fake prophet Mo.
Knowing next to nothing about
Knowing next to nothing about Narcissism I cannot give a good verdict on who won the debate on that special subject. So just maybe there is reasonable doubt. But to me the examples of the life of the Prophet given by Saadiq (Donald) seemed no good exonerations of him. I think Saadiq can't make such clear-cut conclusions as he does, based on the evidence. For me it is OK only if it is just his opinion. But I would have thought that the group or religion with the extraordinary claims has the burden of proof, not the refuters of these claims, like Ali Sina, Irshad Manji (who is still a Muslima!), Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Wafa Sultan, Brigitte Gabriel, Geert Wilders. All these people want is free democratic societies, preferably all around the world as they prefer these to all sorts of dictatorship-states, many of them Islamic states. If Islam were just a way of life, people could choose this "sweet" way of life, because they judged it to be very useful, effective, simply the best way of life. Letting others choose other ways of life if they want. Even their own offspring, easily, like with changing jobs, living places or suppliers. Let the best way of life win, hey? But Islam claims to be the ONLY way, the truest way. It claims the Quran was dictated by Allah, that Mohammed was HIS messenger, the latest and final one and much more. By asserting that, Muslims indeed have a big burden of proof! Otherwise choosing a religion is no more than a big gamble or just based on subjective feelings. It is great that Saadiq sees the responsibility of the Muslims to answer the call of the Islam-critics. I hope many more follow his own example. All we Democrats really ask is to be reasonable, to work out our differences in dialoque, use our democratic rules, however faulty they seem at times. When debates like this are common, our youths can see the information, the logical arguments and make good informed choices. Just asserting that the opponents only use lies, half-truths, faulty logic, misrepresentation won't cut it. Debaters have to make efforts, use good logic, show good sources, be as honest as they can. Can and will many Muslims do that? And yes, they can discredit the position of their opponents sometimes, yes they can make parts of their religion seem possibly true, but can they argue convincingly that the whole is true? Without reasonable doubt?! It seems to me that nowadays ex-Muslims and Islamologists have about as much knowledge (and experience!) of Islam as the Muslim scholars do and that they bring loads and loads of information and good arguments. So in honest comprehensive debate Muslims are now in dire straits, I think.
U R a Jehadi if; U think
U R a Jehadi if;
U think Stoning Women to Death for adultery is o.k , but think having a beer is immoral.
U import/export opium and heroin, but think partying is bad.
U have more wives, than good points.
U would like to keep your women covered from head to toe , but want to admire the beauty of other women .
U say that your religion safegaurds women, but u like to blow up girls schools and colleges.
u who want all the rights and privileges of a democracy when in a minority, but like to crush all minorities when in majority
U hate television ,music and western influence, but like to buy the latest AK47s for your jehad .
U say izlam is a peacefull religion, but u murder innocents CIVILIANS AND CRICKETERS.
U claim u believe in God, but do devils work.
Three guys, a Canadian, Osama
Three guys, a Canadian, Osama Bin Laden and Uncle Sam are out walking together one day. They come across a lantern and a Genie pops out of it.
"I will give each of you each one wish, that's three wishes total," says the Genie.
The Canadian says, "I am a farmer, my dad was a farmer, and my son will also farm. I want the land to be forever fertile in Canada." With a blink of the Genie's eye, 'POOF' the land in Canada was forever made fertile for farming.
Osama Bin Laden was amazed, so he said, "I want a wall around Afghanistan, so that no infidels, Jews or Americans can come into our precious state." Again, with a blink of the Genie's eye, 'POOF' there was a huge wall around Afghanistan.
"Uncle Sam" (A former civil engineer), asks, "I'm very curious. Please tell me more about this wall." The Genie explains, "Well, it's about 15,000 feet high, 500 feet thick and completely surrounds the country; nothing can get in or out---virtually impenetrable."
"Uncle Sam" says, "Fill it with water."
Dr dOnald Morgan You are now
Dr dOnald Morgan
You are now qualified to start a Islamic jehadi school which will spread peace (for ever).
Guys, after reading this part
Guys, after reading this part of debate especially where Sina says:
However, what really matters to a narcissist most is his pride. They will even accept death for their pride. Saddam Hussein was a good example."
I've come to realize donald morgan and most muslim converts are narcissists. No matter how many facts someone brings to them to show how wrong they are, they'll never accept defeat, just to save their pride. Ony non-narcissist muslims are only capable of getting out of islam, I'd conclude. And the narcissists will face the fate of all narcissists, terrible humiliation. Islam by nature is a bullhead narcissist ideology which is only bound to face humiliation as a matter of fact. I've some strong scenarios to back me up with this thesis.
A bullhead pharaoh, an ancient eygptian king harassed israelites with so many afflictions including killing their male babies at their time of births. God decided it is the time to give them the land he promised their patriarchs to save from pharaoh. Using Moses, he performed wonders infront of Pharaoh to convince him to let the israelites out. Being a narcissist he stubbornly refused and only realized he cannot contest God when his royal chariots where sandwiched between two tsunami proportion waves. Ahead the canaanites who dwelled the promised land heard this story. Instead of bowing down to God of Israel, they sought to fight Him, as usual to save their pride. The clever among them and who were not narcissist agreed to serve God of Israel and sought peace with children of israel. Some people are saying enough with these missionaries fairytales who seek to destroy Indian cultural heritage (wink and a smile). Consider this striking parallel in the modern history.
A bullhead Hitler after afflicting a holocaust, UN unanimously decided in Res. 181, to devide palestine among jews and arabs who happens to be mostly muslims. David ben Gurion declared independence and betrothed peace with palestinians. Ah but muslims are by nature narcissists, so to save their pride (jews are apes, it is shameful the Holy Muslim land to be dwelled by apes) declared war. The aftermath is obvious to everyone. Palestinians regret to this very day.
But muslims are narcissists. Fire begets fire. Allah a narcissist begot muhammad a narcissist who begot narcissist muslims ( unholy trinity). They insist on provoking israel and soon we will witness the fate of all narcissist, terrible humiliation. Iran insist on developing nuclear weapons to wipe israel off the map, but I fear the opposite will be true. Ali Sina, has your familly already out of Iran? And this will be the beginning of islam humiliation. If Pedo Mo escaped humiliation then, there is no way he can escape it now!
hehe I,m stunned.... good
hehe I,m stunned.... good work mr.Sina what can I say? Muslims seems to have had an accident with their head, maybe its a custom to drop their babys on their head, exept for the ones who left islam
#7 Ibrahim The Mormon creator
#7 Ibrahim
The Mormon creator said he wanted to be the next Muhammad. He created a new book, "Book of the Mormons" JosephSmith was killed before he could become the President of America as he had planned. Elohim is the name of the god of Mormons. He is said to be a polygamist with a wife #1 named Gonhorrah. Yes Mormons believe that science fiction, but according to them fornicating is a religious right. Smith had over 30 wives and the women can marry dead people.
The also cursed Black people. Elohim must be Allah (smile) both cursed black folks. Mormons believe Elohim cursed Cain by turning him black, thus all blacks were cursed. Korans were a part of the America fabric since Pres. Jefferson had to defeat Muslims off Africa(Tripoli) to stop white slavery by Islam in 1804 by Muslims. Dr. King had his "I have a Dream" speech, was killed, and ten years .later the Mormons stopped the racism of the Mormon Church. A revelation came (smile) Was it the same Gabriel? Joseph smith was also a con artist, and conned NYers out of their money looking for lost treasure. He used this to create the TABLETS he made his followers pretend to have seen.
I debated two Mormons men and I said if Cain was turned black, then he must have been white, right! He was trying to convert me, but after that one question, they were unable or unwilling to answer (they were white), they became unnerved (angry) and left. To Mormons, the doctrine of the new Muhammad has become a source of vexation! Polygamy was God's will and Smith/Elohim had his share. Young and Smith married children and widows all at the same time. Today, Utah is known as the Mormons capital of America.
Some still marry many women and some are just like the Muslims women, slaves to an ideology of slave like submission. The women look like zombies!
#10 Great one. "YOU MUST BE A MUSLIM IF......" WOULD MAKE A GREAT BOOK.
#11 GREAT JOKE
#13 jESUS TOLD HIS DISCIPLES TO GO MAKE DISCIPLES OVER THE WORLD, NOT KILL OR FORCE IT. cHRISTIANS FOLLOWED jESUS COMMAND. However, I was back in the day, but I do have faith and I do believe the Bible. God gives us freeom to be or not to be. Before I condemned Islam, I studied it and found racism too much for a loving God to have written. When I saw the missionaries of Islam forcing it on people, I knew Islam could not have followed Jesus, but followed Satan Allah according to Quran 3:54.
Ibn Kammuna Says: [Great
Ibn Kammuna Says:
[Great job. Well done my son. “Ignorance is a Bliss”. Now it is time for you to go take some college courses on Logic, Critical Analysis, Critical Thinking, Philosophical Investigations,..Well..you get the idea. and by the way, go quick to the closest clinic. You have a gushing bloody nose man..go quick..]
Typical missionary logic! Sounds like you are writing from a church attached with clinic? You proved to be a devil worshipper as your god was tempted by the devil! Can you deny this fact?
Ali Sina doesn't believe in
Ali Sina doesn't believe in God, and hence, to him, there is no difference between Jesus and Hitler! That's why Christian missionaries blindly believe in him as though he is their next God! lol
So you are back to your
So you are back to your monkey tricks amina bai. I knew that you would never give up your shitty self. That's why I told venex that people who don't understand Freedom don't deserve it either.
You are a retarded monkey who deserves to be kicked out into the milky way.
Final Match! Ali Sina 7 X 0
Final Match!
Ali Sina 7 X 0 Arrogant Faceless Donald Duck!
You should be ashamed of yourself, Mr. Duck. You've again helped Islam get a baaad name!
And #17, Mr. Amum-Ra, servant's slave of Mumm-Ra-MAD, whatdo you think of adding a mental health clinic to a madrassa? I'm sure the inmates there would need it a lot, as they perform intensive training to become pearl-like boys Ghilmans. I'm confident you have taken this course seriously,being scrutinized by nine-in-a-row horny muuuuuhlahs every sigle day.
Yeh guys time to celebrate no
Yeh guys time to celebrate no more Morgan after 2day
Donald is a typical muslim
Donald is a typical muslim (convert). He does not want to evaluate koran/hadith in totality and wants to use selective passages to maintain his belief in this cult.
The depth of knowledge Ali Sina has shown is tremendous. I wrote off Donald in the first part of the debate itself where he attacked the source, Dr. Sam Vaknin. That showed how shallow his understanding of narcissim was.
Donald and all muslims, you must understand one thing. It is things like internet which will bring the downfall of islam. Internet is playing a great role in exposing this cult.
So bye for now. I will leave you with this recently surfaced video. Enjoy and do show it to your son so that he gains better understand of this cult:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1166842/Please-stop-Ta...
Socratese, You are very
Socratese,
You are very accurate in talking about the movie "A beautiful Mind". It is definitely very helpful to understand Muhammad and his illness. Its really perfect to watch during the same week one reads Sina's book.
AMIM,
Hi sweetie. When are you going to put some thinking into your head mass? In any case, keep coming to FFI. No one who will see the multiplicity of evidence against Muhammad and Islam on this site, and stay a Muslim. Unless off course, alas, that person is pure idiot. Anyway, just don't copy and paste missy. Otherwise, we'll have to notify the moderators to get rid of your garbage. Anyway, Pumkin, got to go for now. Peace (even though I doubt you can have that if you are a Muslim).
Dear Brother Donald , Thanks
Dear Brother Donald ,
Thanks for all your effort in putting this rebuttal together. You have indeed done an excellent job with this. We have to understand that the person you are engaged in has the luxury to prolong this debate with his senseless accusations. It is easy to deduce that his existence is devoted to ridiculing our Prophet peace be upon him. This individual may claim to promote ‘scholarly’ debates but having involved yourself with his unending abusive dialogue you must have understood that he only intends to show us disrespect and spread his hate. I was very displeased with the fact that he went on to publish a picture of you and your son. He has even explained himself as to why he chose to do it. This just reflects on the character of this man. Sad and unfortunate as it maybe these kind of people have existed throughout ages. It does give us a sense of the difficulties all the Prophets have faced during their lifetime. As all messengers of truth our Prophet was not spared of hostility from such Godless characters. In fact it continues till date. However patience and perseverance is prescribed. It has to be understood that God created man with the ability to chose between right and wrong. He sent his messengers to teach the difference between the two. Now if we choose wrong we do it for own peril. Unfortunately these individuals have a hard time getting this logic. God’s wisdom goes beyond their understanding and hence they simply fail to appreciate the relationship between God and his messengers. In their confusion they simply take recourse to vilifying the Prophet to dismiss the message. We have to understand that the enemies of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him and of Prophet Jesus and Prophet Moses all the ones before him are the same. Their hatred stems from the same dislike of their Creator and his creations. This individual may hide behind the veil of Atheism but he is simply an Atheist when it comes to Islam. His humanity excludes anybody who professes his faith in Islam. His sad existence is so filled with hatred and contempt that I wonder how this man fits himself in a civilization. I wonder at his motivation to live each day with the sole intention of lying about our Prophet who lived over 1400 years ago. In the darkness of his hate filled mind he relentlessly pursues his depraved lust to create an image of our Prophet that this man wrongly plots to portray.
I am sure there are others who in their failure seek solace in their vain preoccupations of hate. This man aptly reflects this character.
I think life is better spent following the path shown by our Prophet. We should simply refuse to be pulled back by these negatively motivated individuals. Our life is meant to be constructive and enjoyable. I am sure these exchanges must be affecting your other academic or social involvements. We should continue with our effort to contribute to our societies and our families. These individuals have decided to devote their entire being to spreading hatred and advocating violence. They are not here to understand our religion. Their sole objective is ‘shock therapy’. Now what kind of a cheap tactics is that? Abuse and disgrace someone and expect him to debate and engage with him. This site is nothing but provocation. We should not be bogged down by their regressive mindset. Infact we should all continue to strive in our respective fields. We should continue to contribute to society with the fullest of our abilities.
Wish you all the best in your life’s pursuit AND even though the participants in this site may start their old habit of abuse and swearing we should correct false allegations and lies.
Hope some of the readers see the truth in Brother Donald’s arguments. Nevertheless this is a hate site so I don’t expect FFI to stop promoting this particular lie. If we are honest all of his lies have been well refuted by many individuals yet the promoter of this site basks in his proprietary glory and refuses to end his hate campaign. I think this hate sustains him therefore there is no question of him accepting the fact that Mr Morgan has very well presented the facts about our Prophet’s personality. He ‘owns’ the site so obviously his would be the last call.
Their hate and destructive mentality will be well reflected in the bullying and abuses that will follow my comment
.
Where is the moderator to
Where is the moderator to delete all of the AMIM posters? This guy is astonishingly dumb that even does not qualify the muslim category. No matter how much we berate muslims here but certainly some muslims who often visit here (Salim, habshi, wassim, faithinone) are far intelligent than this jerk fool. There is nothing he writes that is substantial. He once called himself a girl, then a circumcised boy, may be next he'll say he is gay.
AMIM, this is a typical way
AMIM,
this is a typical way of muslims response when challenged..you start pasting stuff from other religions...didnt mohammad tell you anywhere that two wrongs never make a right????
the world has moved on and struck a good balance between modern life and religion...i advise you to do the same...u dont even realize how much harm this cult is doing to you...
faithin one,
i just caught on to one sentence ..."contribute to our societies"..yes , keep contributing to yours..and if u happen to be in any democratic country, enjoying various freedoms, u have one great freedom, the freedom to leave...allah awaits you in the desert...
Faithinone, With every
Faithinone,
With every pathetic apolegetic rant you throw in your defence of islam prevailing events proves you wrong. It is only yesterday the Pakistan taliban terribly flogged a girl in SWAT valley as an enforcement of unholy sharia law. Mark my words, it'll not not take long when we read in the media of another mosque blown up by the soldiers of allah in pakistan. The funny but sad thing, muslims suffer so much than non-muslims, may be our efforts are useful to muslims than to non muslims. I in particular I'do not qualify to be a scholar in islam, but dude, actions speaker louder than words and you will know them by their fruits.
faithinone, yes, this is a
faithinone,
yes, this is a hate site..but its hate against hateful preachings..that is pervasive for the past 1400 years....there is no one place where this site makes call to kill...unlike zillions of islamic sites that call for annihilation of everything non-muslim...
scroll up and read the essence of this website:
"We aim to promote human rights and democracy among Muslims.
We oppose Islam, not Muslims. We are against hate, not faith."
To understand this essence, you have to be objective and must have an open mind...
FaithInOne, some of us take
FaithInOne, some of us take what you say seriously. I like to respond to some of it. It may be that some individuals do not understand the relationship between God and his messengers. But I don't think that they dislike God but really just do not trust people who claim to be his messengers. Like they don't believe Joseph Smith, or Baha'ullah, "Gods messengers" who came after Mohammed. Yes, our lives are meant to be constructive and enjoyable. Yes, we should continue with our efforts to contribute to our societies and our families. Many of us agree with you there. About abuse and disgrace. Yes, I do think every one has the right to be respected, but everyone also has the right to criticise. As long as people refrain from violence, which, I inform you, the Islam-critics "advocate" very much against! As long as you are able to retreat from the criticisms that are only offered in public places, as on the internet, TV or in newspapers. NOT in your workplace or home. When they criticised your religion there your complaints would be justified. But now everybody can avoid them, go to the speakers and writers they like to their hearts content. And everybody can voice objections to whoever they want, in public places. If insulting is outlawed, then criticising could be outlawed with it, when we equate criticising with insulting (to the benefit of many lazy or bad persons), that is the problem. And these Islam-critics are not here to understand your religion? Well, many of them came out of it, often were in it for years, have studied it extensively. You think a religion only belongs to those who believe in it? No, it belongs to all mankind.
AMIM, with your quotes you
AMIM,
with your quotes you have shown that your knowledge of Christianity is Islamic indeed. Its like my knowledge of the Amhari Language (which is pretty much nothing). Why don't you go to some Christian sites to understand what those verses mean. You really pretty much telling people here this: "Come on people. I am AMIM, and I am a true Idiot." Trust me on this one AMIM. Go to some Christian sites, and see what those verses mean.
Peace, my sweet darling
@All muslims This is what ur
@All muslims
This is what ur Quran says:
"[028:044] You were not there on the western slopes (of the mountain) where We gave Musa the commandments! You were not a witness."
http://www.answering-christianity.com/cgi-bin/quran/quran_search1.cgi?se...
By the same logic, u muslims were not there when Gabriel gave Muhammad his revealations and u were not a witness to that. Then, how do u testify(give shahada) that Muhammad was a Messenger of Allah?????
Finally, one sees a decent
Finally, one sees a decent muslim here in Faithinone. From his posturing, I am sure he is some social and economic parasite in a non-muslim country.
The picture would be incomplete were we to be silent about the real side of "decent muslims" like him. The cloak of Secular or Marxist brotherly love has long concealed their “real decent side”. There is no crime, from pickpocketing to bank robbery, from train robbery to brutal murder, from drugs to the defilement of corpses, from document forgery to perjury, from embezzlement to counterfeiting, in which the names of his muslim brethren are not written large as perpetrators or accomplices in the history of criminality. These "poor victims" are then represented by Secular attorneys. Presented as the victim of circumstances, they receive mild sentences, which are in turn covered up by the Secular press. These decent muslims, if not direct participants themselves, would not even whimper protest for the acts of their bretheren nor be vocal about sharia punishments on them.
But he who called the muslim a muslim and described his drives as terror, on the other hand, is given draconian sentences by those same secular courts for religious incitement. Then these ever-whining decent muslims are also seen on the surface crying victimhood, like this chap is doing here as a true slave of pedophile-mohammad (the biggest chutia ever emerged from desertlands of Arabia). This guy does not even feel ashamed to praise a pedophile rapist and a murderer.
@Ibn Kamuna and all fellow
@Ibn Kamuna and all fellow non-muslims
AMIM has rightly pointed out quotes from NEW TESTAMENT and there is no need to say that Jesus meant something else than what he said.
@AMIM
How do u expect Christians to accept the horrible things in New Testament when u do not accept the horrible things in Quran which Ali Sina has pointed out in this site???.
Bro, I am with u in ur crititcism of Christianity which is objective. I expect u to show the same objectivity in awakening to the horrible things in Quran.
these decent muslims are the
these decent muslims are the biggest eunuchs...they have no courage to stand up against hate speeches..
i am waiting for a day when all decent muslims take it to the streets against hate and tell religious leaders to annul hate thats present in koran (e.g. jews are apes and pigs).
until then all decent muslims stand guilty by tacit association
@AMIM BTW, I am very much
@AMIM
BTW, I am very much impressed by the amount of bad things u pointed out from New Testament. U are far more knowledgeable than ALLAH who seemed to have no problem with New Testament except the "Jesus is Son of God" stuff, Mary worship and resurrection.
@indiafirst Patience friend.
@indiafirst
Patience friend. Ali Sina and other apostates were also decent muslims before they became aware of the hate speech in Quran and stood up against it.
Veda Says: [How do u expect
Veda Says:
[How do u expect Christians to accept the horrible things in New Testament when u do not accept the horrible things in Quran which Ali Sina has pointed out in this site???]
Please use your own brain instead of others'. Have you ever seen a Muslim quoting any verse from the articles of Hindu/Christian haters to attack Hinduism/Christianity? No. You have admitted that I didn't quote the above Biblical verses out of context neither did I distort the verses. So, why are you asking me to read Ali Sina's garbage to know about the Quran? Why don't you read the Quran yourself. Please have trust on yourself, not on Ali Sina! He is a fake Christian Missionary masquerading as ex-Muslim to attack Islam and Muslims. So, don't be fooled by his deception.
amim if there is any
amim
if there is any distortion, its distortion of koran that u know of....be a good muslim..follow koran as it is....i think u should go to NWFP in pakistan where true koran is being implemented...
indiafirst, Unlike your
indiafirst,
Unlike your hindutva india, Muslims are spreaded all over the planet earth. You are probably living in a village of india who only know about his enemy Pakistan!
To #24. Dear
To #24.
Dear FaithinNone,
"It has to be understood that God created man with the ability to chose between right and wrong. He sent his messengers to teach the difference between the two." So,you're allegedly saying that MuuuuuhCowMAD/Mumm-Ra-MAD was sent to tell me that XXXXXXX with dead rotten stinky corpses, camels,goats, pre-puescent girls, 'pearl-like boys', daughters-in-law is god-like action?
Mr. Fathom , if god gave me the abiliy to choose between right and wrong, what for the need to send a primary school teachar like, and worst of it, a teacher like MuuuuuuHCowMAD? At least he could pay for a better Profit$$$$!
"I think life is better spent following the path shown by our Prophet. We should simply refuse to be pulled back by these negatively motivated individuals."
I agree with you. JIHAD and get WAR BOOTY! As for myself, whenever I see a Muslimah( an awra, vagina, according to his XXXXness the messenger of Piss, Mumm-RA-MAD), I'll enjoy her as tilth to my....
"Our life is meant to be constructive and enjoyable" Wasn't music banned in Islam? I might be mistaken. When you say constructive, you mean like the war on Lebanon? Please, stay quiet and don't do anything constructive.
"Hope some of the readers see the truth in Brother Donald’s arguments." I couldn't. The lenses of my glasses shattered when reading this. Could someone buy me some new glasses?
Now, seriously. What's the name of the guy in that picture? Donald Duck? SaaatchinDick MuuuuCowMAD? May someone finally tell me?
"Please use your own brain
"Please use your own brain instead of others’."
Nice concept. Applies to u too.
" Have you ever seen a Muslim quoting any verse from the articles of Hindu/Christian haters to attack Hinduism/Christianity? No."
Not relevant to the point.
'You have admitted that I didn’t quote the above Biblical verses out of context neither did I distort the verses.'
Of Course. Coz. I am not a Christian . I am an atheist and have read the New Testament(NT). What u said about NT are facts.
" So, why are you asking me to read Ali Sina’s garbage to know about the Quran? Why don’t you read the Quran yourself. Please have trust on yourself, not on Ali Sina!"
I have read the Quran myself and I can say that whatever Garbage A
He is a fake Christian Missionary masquerading as ex-Muslim to attack Islam and Muslims. So, don’t be fooled by his derception.
"” So, why are you asking me
"” So, why are you asking me to read Ali Sina’s garbage to know about the Quran? Why don’t you read the Quran yourself. Please have trust on yourself, not on Ali Sina!”
I have read the Quran myself and I can say that whatever Garbage ALi Sina writes on this site is the garbage reproduced from Quran. Quran and not Sina is responsible for the garbage.
"He is a fake Christian Missionary masquerading as ex-Muslim to attack Islam and Muslims. So, don’t be fooled by his derception."
Dont cast aspersions on Ali Sina blindly like this.
I had hoped that you had come
I had hoped that you had come to your senses AMIM. Unforunately, this is not the case. Islam is a death-cult invented by Muhammad in order to attain booty and women. Read the Qur'an:
9:5 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the unbelievers wherever you find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent (accept Islam) and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity then open the way for them; for God is oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
9:111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (paradise); they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the law, the gospel, and the Qur'an, and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which you have concluded; that is the achievement of supreme.
4:74: Let those fight in the cause of Allah who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fights in the cause of Allah, - whether he is slain or gets victory - Soon shall we give him reward of great (value).
4.76: Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject faith fight in the cause of evil: So fight against the friends of Satan; feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan.
8:12 ...I will instill terror in the hearts of the unbelievers: Smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them....
If you believe in the above verses AMIM, then you are my enemy and I will fight you.
Regards
kikl
46. AMIM
46. AMIM Says:
indiafirst,
Unlike your hindutva india, Muslims are spreaded all over the planet earth. You are probably living in a village of india who only know about his enemy Pakistan!
Dear amim show me one continent where hindus are not in sizable nos.
@DONALD MORGAN Let me debunk
@DONALD MORGAN
Let me debunk donald here.
Utba of Quraish tried to tempt muhhamad by offering him wealth and by promising to make him a chief.Let us reason here a bit from muhhamads point of view. Well let us say i am muhhamad and i accept the offer of quraish .The first problem is this would prove that i am claiming to be a prophet just for the sake of wealth. I would lose my followers. I would be called a mad man and a fake prophet. In such a situation what if quraish do not give me the wealth as promised? This would mean end of my means of livelihood for ever as well as my followers .
Practically none would give their wealth to such a exposed mad man and make him their chief.This is common sense.How does muhhamad know that this was not a trap set up to expose him? . SO a wise criminal's answer to the offer will always be NO NO NO !!! Now I accept that this is a possibility and not a fact but should we draw conclusion based on just a single incident that he didnt crave for wealth and other stuff?
IF Muhhamad was never a fan of wealth and women then why quran asks for 20 % loot for the messenger?. Why muhhamad consistently robbed people in the battles? Why did he consistently capture women in battles as sex slaves?
Drawing a conclusion on a single incident is stupidity. To understand muhhamad we should be seeing muhhamads consistency in his behaviour.
Even if we assume that Muhhamad denied wealth,women on that particular occassion out of nobility we see in the history of islam that 9 /10 times this man robbed and took sex captives and on just one occasion he denied it.
Should we still call this man noble depending on a single incident ignoring other 9 incidents where he is seen to be a monster looting and enslaving women?
The point is to draw any conclusion one must see for the pattern of consistency in the behaviour of muhhamad. Sadly for DOnald Muhhamad did crave for wealth and women on more than 90 % of the times.
Let me get you
Let me get you started:
Matthew
10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Arlandson/matthew_10_34.htm
10:21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
http://home.clara.net/arlev/matt030.htm
Assuming you can understand biblical verses without trying to see what Christians say about those verses (i.e. background, context, etc..) is just ignorance.
When we study Islam, we go to Islamic sources to understand the verses don't we? All researchers on this site do that.
I can't give you links to all verses. i have many things to take care of today, but at least I got you started. Peace
krishna786 Says: [show me
krishna786 Says:
[show me one continent where hindus are not in sizable nos.]
There are about 0.8-1.0 billion Hindus in the world, although most of them do not believe in this inhumane and barbaric cult, and more than 90% of them live in India. So, what are you talking about! Yes, there are some Hindus in every continent but their # is not mentionable at all. Even you can find some Sikh in every continent!
AMIM wrote: Typical
AMIM wrote:
Typical missionary logic! Sounds like you are writing from a church attached with clinic? You proved to be a devil worshipper as your god was tempted by the devil! Can you deny this fact?
Lets not forget Muhammed was fooled by Shaitan ( Satan ). Remember the Satanic verses. I wonder if that was the only time Shaitan fooled Muhammed.
#55: Considering all the
#55:
Considering all the ridiculously evil things perpetrated by Mo-ham-mad, I wouldn't be surprised if Mo-ham-mad was in fact the reincarnation of the Devil itself!
Anti-Jihad
Anti-Jihad wrote:
Considering all the ridiculously evil things perpetrated by Mo-ham-mad, I wouldn’t be surprised if Mo-ham-mad was in fact the reincarnation of the Devil itself!
He was and that is why nobody was allowed to draw a picture of him, because the horns on his head would have given him away.
‘Narcissists do not directly
‘Narcissists do not directly promote themselves. They hide behind the veneer of modesty, while they elevate their god, ideology, cause or religion, which in reality is their own alter ego. They may present themselves as mere messengers, simple, humble, self-effacing heralds of this or that mighty and all-powerful deity, or all-encompassing cause, but they make it clear that they are the only ones who know the cause and are extremely intolerant and unforgiving of dissenters and recalcitrants’
This passage automatically set off ‘red flags’ for me when I read it. The reason it raised suspicion is because there was no footnote attached. This statement did not come from a reference or a ‘qualified’ resource. It didn’t even come from Dr. Sam Vaknin fake Ph.D. Where did this passage come from? If it came from some resource, Ali Sina would have listed it in a footnote! If this statement did not come from a reference or resource it must have come directly from Ali Sina himself. I asked myself again and again, why Ali Sina would place this in his book if it didn’t come from a qualified psychiatric professional. Then, like a ton of bricks, the answer hit me. This is Ali Sina’s ‘back up’ plan. This is the ‘backdoor’ by which Ali Sina can escape when confronted with overwhelming evidence. In a sense, this is the ‘cop out’ Ali Sina can use at his discretion when proof of Muhammad not suffering from NPD is brought to the table. It occurred to me that it doesn’t matter how many examples from the Hadith or the Quran, about Muhammad, that would disqualify him as being a NPD sufferer were brought to the table because in the end, Ali Sina could always use his ‘back up’ plan or ‘backdoor’ by saying:
This statement could be used to disqualify any evidence or proof that is brought up by myself or others. I know that by the end of this debate, Ali Sina will use this excuse, or one like it to wiggle his way out of the evidence I bring forth. All I ask is that the readers remember one thing. This statement about NPD did NOT come from a qualified professional! It is the workings and ideology of Ali Sina, who is NOT a qualified psychiatrist, nor an authority on the subject of mental disorders or narcissism. If the readers of this debate are able to see beyond this obvious deception, made by Ali Sina, they, like me, can say that this statement is worthless, as it did not come from a qualified reference or resource. Thus, it can’t be used in the argument.
Those characteristic traits of NPD are mentioned in the book People of the Lie by Dr. M. Scott Peck.