The concept of supernatural - By Irfan Khan

TOO GOOD!!!

awesome and my feelings on reading this are beyond words and therefore no further comments...

Hmm But questions for science......

May be a bummer... but its my endeavor to understand things, make me post

1) If evolution is about finding a way to live in all odds....

why evolution never happened that is not based on the existing life model. Say for example in remote jupiter why life never got created that can thrive on the toxic gases. Something like anti particle. One life's poison is other life's food. Correct me if i am wrong.

2) Why nature didnt give control on our own heart, secretion of glands etc., shocking we cant hold our breath and suicide!!! Really hurting our ego!!!

3) Ok for people who keep kicking religions and god for all the evils.... Science came into existence the day mankind came to earth (either evolution or creation). Ok the life of modern science (inventions etc.,) can be roughly considered around 400 years( over optimistic)... But science hasn't catered the needs of all human yet and already we're crying about carbon emissions, green environment. And hope you all know the scale of destruction brought during the European ego wars (wrongly termed as world wars I and II). Does that mean we dont need science???

4) For ppl who ask for god proof. We all have conscience. How do you prove that? Does that mean conscience doesn't exist? I know i have conscience..as you do.. what is the mathematical proof aka scientific proof for that.

5) Why we want to put god in 1 single equation like e = mc2. Our languages are not based on science? How do you mathematically derive what is going to be next new word added to Oxford dictionary or any other language in the world. Do we have any language that has scientific grammar? Does that mean science is already not able explain something like this.

I want to be defensive. So correct me if i am wrong. As i don't want to create flame ware and deviate from the core of the subject.

cheers.

Apparently, Irfan Khan doesn't want God to be there and he is working hard to show it, but mmh! too late for that, God is real.

To successfully debunk Islam, you must acknowledge God exist but show He is not Allah: and Islam is busted.

"So the only plausible way for God to exist is to be a God of Nature (GON)."

Did you think seriously about it? It is not a question of finding the plausible way to make God exist, it is the question of, if God exist, He must reveal Himself to us.

It is useless to waste energy on the question of God existence. Simply because we are humans. We think and act according to our human nature. We have not the power to rise above our human nature and start asking questions that are not made to satisfy our human's need.

if we are to encounter another intelligent species, they would probably think the same thing. They either have a religion and in that case their God is superior (and you end up with multiple Gods) , or not, and in that case they would argue that they are the result of supreme evolution. Who knows, another species might think that they are Gods themselves.

As things stand at the moment, there is no God (\with an open mind\). A lot of people are working hard to answer the question, some will force it on you and others will try to convince you, and others still \Prove it or go away\.

In any case, we should all coexist, and any one who tries to force one theory onto others must be eliminated for the sake of Humanity.

God or superintelligent power does exist and Nature is full of example of that. When man lives within the laws of nature we can be free and happy, if we try to control some aspects of nature for selfish needs doom comes.
Human being is very intelligent creation of that Force or God and we ourselves has many powers to do great. Look at science and other advancement, which should also proof that god has given us many freedom and intelligence to do great thing. We can do organ transplant, fly, speak with another person in earth etc. We can do a lot but cant Give Life to a dead human or animal, or cant create a Cell from organic matter. Life is created only from life thats the key.
Islam is a 'cult' which very cunningly using the name of God and creating a fake god called 'allah'. In koran it says that god creates man from mud, that means from inorganic matter. How fool?Show us any example where life can be created from non-life matter. Life needs another life source. even a bacteria divides into 2, thus one life into 2.
Also when God gives a man proper body, why the muslim god removes the genital skins of male and female. Do remember these are flesh, thus live cells. Its not like hair or nails which are dead cells.
Removing healthly skin from male and female genitals is working against Nature and it also proves that muslims are against nature and a violent force against nature.

The concept of 'God or supernatural or 'Paramatma' is simply impossible to understand as for any living being called 'Jeevatma' by itself. But some schools of thought do argue, what if the same 'Paramatma' is ready to reveal himself ?

Pretty much difficult for all the humans to agree to come to same terms, due to their
uncompromising ego, prejudice about other language/culture & other barriers, skepticism (sometimes may be geniune also) & so on.

Here is the beautiful quote from 'Bhagavad Gita' which shows the magnanimity of 'God, who is ready to reveal himself in whatever form which pleasing to his devotee (living being).

This seems like a lot of semantics.

Why couldn't Something above the law of nature make Itself known to those within the order of nature?

What I think atheists fail to realize is that trying to substitute atheism, secularism, etc. in place of Islam is just not going to work. Those philosophies are like big voids.

Most people have a desire to know God and do what is truly right. An atheist can say, "I don't need God or religion to be moral," but then morality is completely subjective. (And most atheists fail to acknowledge that the morals they do have were taught by their societies which are largely influenced by the billions of believers in the Judeo-Christian God.) There are 1.2 billion people (Muslims) on this planet who believe that being an atheist is immoral. Why the belief that there is no purpose to this life except to live it and do what is "moral" as each person defines it should appeal to Muslims is beyond me. Why is it that Muslims secretly leave Islam in droves for other religions such as Christianity? It is because the idea of a loving, righteous God appeals to them.

Nature is cruel and unforgiving. Nature is no friend to Man. It kills indiscriminately and produces congenital deformities and debilitating diseases. If everything has evolved, then Nature has produced and contributed to the spread of Islam indirectly through the brains of human beings. To equate God with Nature is ludicrous. Nature is a creation of God, not God Himself.

"Let’s get more clarity on this point – Consider the topic of paranormal (considering it occurs), does it belong to nature or to the realms of supernatural? Well, by definition it belongs to the category ‘nature’ – the very fact that we have such a notion of what it is (existence), what happens in it (order) and attempts to find out how it occurs (laws) makes it a part of nature. We may not know how it occurs, but explaining this “how” by falling to realms of Supernatural (inconceivable, beyond orders and laws) we are contradicting ourselves because we know the product of this “how” is a law or sequence of events, which is by definition ‘nature’ and not ’supernatural’."

Obviously this guy has no clue on what he is talking about.

The paranormal does not exist in the laws of nature. It exists outside the constraints of such laws. That is the whole idea of the paranormal. Anything supernatural exists above the laws of nature as we understand them. The term paranormal refers to phenomena that may affect this world but does normally exist in this world.

From wiki:

Paranormal is a general term that describes unusual experiences that supposedly lack a scientific explanation,[1] or phenomena alleged to be outside of science's current ability to explain or measure.

The fallacy of Irfan Khan's claim is God cannot exist in the laws of nature because he created these laws ( God is the creator which means he also created the laws of nature ).

As for his arguments about nature and consciousness from my understanding the laws of nature only describe the material and consciousness is really nonmaterial matter. So Mr. Khan how do the laws of nature apply to the consciousness which is nonmaterial?

Marie

Your arguments "beg the question" in that you assume what is to be proved. There's absolutely no evidence for any reality outside the material world and that includes a creator god or the "paranormal". The fact that we can imagine the paranormal is not evidence for its existence,after all there's an infinity of imagined concepts, it's worth noting that the Wiki definition contains the significant terms "supposed" and "alleged".

To the question, "Who created God?" believers usually reply that "God is uncreated, eternal"
Why not an uncreated, eternal universe,the hypothesis of a creator god is not required.
As to consciousness , there's no scientific consensus as to what this phenomenon really is,lack of understanding doesn't imply a supernatural explanation,this is the "God of the Gaps" argument.

Natassia,

I doubt that most of our morals are a product of the Judeo-Christian religion, it's essentially the reverse process, modern morality is a development of the Enlightenment and has in fact forced believers to reinterpret the more barbaric " morality" of the Bible in the light of more civilised values.

Irfan Khan,

Your "God of Nature" is no more plausible than any other deity, this idea is just part of the process of a continuous retreat in the light of science. Your arguments also assume what is to be proved.

Dinosaur eggs discovered in India are 65 million yrs old: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/india/Indias-Jurassic-nest-dug-u...

However, according to Bible and Quran, the earth is only 6000 yr old, wollah? The proof is here: http://www.albatrus.org/english/theology/creation/biblical_age_earth.htm ; Can someone challenge this to save their religion?

This is religion for you. I have seen Christian priests preaching that carbon dating itself is wrong and can only go back by 6000 yrs. Bang the head, mate! They want to take us back to dark ages.

Rocky:

Your arguments “beg the question” in that you assume what is to be proved. There’s absolutely no evidence for any reality outside the material world and that includes a creator god or the “paranormal”. The fact that we can imagine the paranormal is not evidence for its existence,after all there’s an infinity of imagined concepts, it’s worth noting that the Wiki definition contains the significant terms “supposed” and “alleged”.

I say:

Rocky while science does provide answers to our existence it does not have the answer to everything. So we don't really know whether or not the paranormal exists, so the question still remains open.

How do you know there is no evidence for any reality outside the material world?

How do you know the paranormal is imagined?

Rocky:

Why not an uncreated, eternal universe,the hypothesis of a creator god is not required.

I say:

Then that statement would open up a lot of questions.

Rocky in order for the universe to be uncreated it would mean it was always there. There is nothing to prove or disprove as to whether or not the universe has always been here. In fact it was not always here. Scientists theorize the universe was created through the big bang.

The problem with the eternal universe idea is the universe does age. As far as I know something that is eternal does not age.

Wagamama there is nothing in the Bible the states the earth is 6000 years. In fact some of the ages given to important figures in the Bible ( Adam lived 900 yrs ) are still being debated as to whether or not people literally lived that many years.

marie.... did bible say about flat earth? Virgin mary.....

The greatness of Xtians... 2 Christian families protesting against 85 hindu families objecting to build a temple in India. And christian official has crushed the 'santana dharma' feelings!!!

Talibans and xtian missionaires have only minor differences....in their dress and religious symbols.
More news to follow....

Where is french president sarkozy who was advocating for xtians? Where is the Religious Freedom Organizations?

Comment ID #24463

Mary, if you care to go through the link I've provided in comment #24461 , it gives the references to all biblical verses and verifies them with historical findings. Do you find anything wrong with the dates mentioned in that website? If so, speak up and refute. Else, accept the facts as they are.

Well well, if you believe in the biblical age of Adam (900 yrs) or not, it doesn't change the chronology of the biblical events that take you back to 4000 BC --- when God created Adam and Eve.

Muslims claim Muhammad to be the last Prophet after Jesus and they too believe in the young age of the earth. Yo Mary, it is time to own up the mistakes of the Bible and Quran (word of God, ha ha) and get a bit of Nirvana! No offense whatsoever......

@ Rocky: Currently, the central theme i have in my mind when i write an article is to get more clarity on issues which an ex-muslim faces after his apostasy. The initial days after apostasy are philosophically painful. Your world has turned upside down and you are stuck in a labyrinth of questions.
This article is meant to draw a canvas, the boundaries of which is 'Supernatural'. Am not retreating from science, I want to make a step wise systematic approach from the view point of an fresh apostate.

@ Marie: You asked about "consciousness" (non material), and how does laws of nature apply to it

The concept of Consciousness is a subjective fact in psychology, philosophy etc. But is it entirely subjective in medicine (if we consider consciousness as 'awareness'? There are objective tests to determine the level of consciousness of a patient - brainstem reflexes, EEG, Neuroimaging and Perfusion Scans can give evidence for coma. We know that damage to Reticular Activating System (RAS) and higher centres in the brain leads to loss of consciousness. Anyways that is a totally different topic, but notice that we know the nature of this invisible 'consciousness'. We know there are grades of consciousness, the events and attributes associated with it. That qualifies it for the category 'Nature'.

Marie, I agree with you on the statement that there is lots to nature that science cannot explain. Because we are here to engage with one dangerous belief - Islam, I will not engage with any other belief system although i think beliefs are to be vigorously scrutinised. Consider psychotherapy ('talking cure'), the way it works in general is to bring into consciousness the false and irrational belief (fear) present in the subconscious and subject it to rationality and reality. This is how we attain happiness and this is why we should doubt and question all our beliefs.

Marie,

We're going to have to agree to disagree,in my opinion, there's no way of obtaining knowledge without scientific ,or at least logical,enquiry.

So,please state your evidence for the paranormal,as I said we can imagine an infinity of possibilities. As far as I understand it, treating the BIg Bang as the "creation" of the Universe is simplistic,where did the Big Bang come from .Out of nothing? The fact that the universe is evolving doesn't prove that it was created.

Even if I conceded the existence of some sort of deity,there's the problem of theodicy. Reconciliation of the miserable lives of most people on the earth is impossible with the notion of the loving,omniscent.and omnipotent God of the Christians.

Irfan Khan,

I think I understand your position, it appears to be a process of detachment from an encompassing world view, I imagine it's not comfortable. I'm not religious by inclination so I find it impossible to understand how a true believer thinks and just assumed that anyone who leaves one religion would not seek another. From my perspective Islam is just another one of those totalitarian ideologies that have threatened the democracies through recent history.

Irfan Khan,

Honestly, your article is good but you only made a slight error to define God.

Firstly, for a Muslim the first thing to do is to get out of Islam and almost everything out there is good for him or her.

Secondly, logically speaking, if there is a God, he will show himself. A Muslim doesn't have to think much about God, the only thing to do is to whisper slowly in his/her heart, "God if you are real it will be a honor to understand you".

Thirdly, they have to do it without pressure. Not of death nor of hell-fire. A Muslim has nothing to lose. He was in Islam and at any rate that was the wastage of time. There is nothing he would have done in Islam to please God. We do not win God's favor through our good morals. We only have to be good just for our goodselves.

The only thing that will attract the attention of God, logically speaking, is not what you do to God, but rather, recognizing what God has done for man. Do you enjoy the life God has given you? Are you fascinated with the diversity of people God has created? Do you feel ecstacy when you are flying and looking down at the beauty of the clouds? Do you feel touched by such an amazing "witty" teachings of Jesus and get offended by what the Roman soldiers did to him 2000 years ago?

Well, these are what touches the heart of God. Do this and you'll be closer to understanding God.

Irfan Khan:

@ Marie: You asked about “consciousness” (non material), and how does laws of nature apply to it

The concept of Consciousness is a subjective fact in psychology, philosophy etc. But is it entirely subjective in medicine (if we consider consciousness as ‘awareness’? There are objective tests to determine the level of consciousness of a patient – brainstem reflexes, EEG, Neuroimaging and Perfusion Scans can give evidence for coma. We know that damage to Reticular Activating System (RAS) and higher centres in the brain leads to loss of consciousness. Anyways that is a totally different topic, but notice that we know the nature of this invisible ‘consciousness’. We know there are grades of consciousness, the events and attributes associated with it. That qualifies it for the category ‘Nature’.

I say:

Sam Harris states:

The problem however, is that nothing about a brain, when surveyed as a whole physical system, declares it to be a bearer of that peculiar interior dimension that each of us experiences as consciousness in his own case. "The upshot is startling: Consciousness may be far more rudimentary phenomenon than are living creatures and there brains. And there appears to be no obvious way of ruling out such a thesis experimentally.

Antony Flew ( philosopher and former atheist apologist turned deist ) states:

All neurons show no resemblance to our conscious life. Second and more important, their physical properties do not in any way give reason to believe that they can or will produce consciousness. Consciousness is correlated with certain regions of the brain, but when the same system of neurons are present in the brain stem there is no production of consciousness. Only blind and baseless faith in matter lies behind the claim that certain bits of matter can suddenly create a new reality that bears no resemblance to matter.

Mr. Khan I happen to know a little info about near death experiences and in many cases people who had such experiences recall everything that happened while the doctors were trying to revive them and in most of these cases they were brain dead or their brain was not functioning.

Irfan Khan:

Consider psychotherapy (’talking cure’), the way it works in general is to bring into consciousness the false and irrational belief (fear) present in the subconscious and subject it to rationality and reality. This is how we attain happiness and this is why we should doubt and question all our beliefs.

I say:

Psychotherapy:

The treatment of mental and emotional disorders through the use of psychological techniques designed to encourage communication of conflicts and insight into problems, with the goal being relief of symptoms, changes in behavior leading to improved social and vocational functioning, and personality growth.

People.

Allah is real. He is the only uncreated being. The first without a beginning and the last without an end. The one who has power over all things. The one who does not beget and the one who was not begotten.

You see, when a limited mind tries to totally comprehend an unlimited mind without the pre-requisite of accepting that a limited mind CANNOT understand those things that are oustide the bounds of his/her reachable knowledge you start to get people who believe in gobbldegook like the author of this article.

It is concepts about God that are difficult to grasp which lead people into disbelief. Concepts like how could he be the Everlasting? How could he not have a beginning? How could he have just simply always have existed? How could he have total control and grasp over every single particle in the entire cosmos?

You cannot explain colours to a blindman. If you could completely understand the workings God, you would be nothing less than divine yourself.

A lot of people rave on and on endlessly about Evolution and Natural Selection. Yet, they conveniently forget or sidetrack the flaws and anomalies in the darwinian theory. Darwin said (The Origin of Species) that if you could find a characteristic in any species which does not serve any evolutionary or survival purpose then the theory is doomed.

And I tell you this now, so don't ever again plead ignorance, that the human being is the only species on Earth that appreciates beauty. This appreciation of a glorious view of a valley from a mountain top or the breathtaking scenery of a mystical forest in Autumn serves NO evolutionary or natural survival purpose for the preservation of our species. This alone results in the theory of Evolution being defunct.

So the next time you witness the beauty of a sunset out at sea which brings tears to your eyes and moves your heart, you should ponder over the very mind that made you feel that way about his creation as a way of calling out to you.

There is no God but Allah.

Rocky:

So,please state your evidence for the paranormal,as I said we can imagine an infinity of possibilities.

I say:

I have no concrete evidence for the paranormal, only my personal experiences which I am not going to talk about here.

If you are interested, check out these websites:

http://www.aspr.com

http://www.nderf.org

http://www.iands.org

Rocky:

As far as I understand it, treating the BIg Bang as the “creation” of the Universe is simplistic,where did the Big Bang come from .Out of nothing? The fact that the universe is evolving doesn’t prove that it was created.

I say:

But was there anything or nothing before the big bang?

Rocky:

Even if I conceded the existence of some sort of deity,there’s the problem of theodicy. Reconciliation of the miserable lives of most people on the earth is impossible with the notion of the loving,omniscent.and omnipotent God of the Christians.

I say:

If I were to lose belief in the existence of God, then I would have a problem with the notion of evil and human suffering and evolution, because everything is the result of evolution. The universe has been evolving for an infinite period of time and by now everything should be perfect or near perfection. There has been plenty of time for evolution to finish ( billions of years ) and evil and human suffering to have been vanquished.

If I were to lose belief in the existence of God I would have a problem of genetically inherited diseases and disabilities. How would these be a part of evolution since evolution is suppose to improve everything.

Kabir Law.--- "You see, when a limited mind tries to totally comprehend an unlimited mind without the pre-requisite of accepting that a limited mind CANNOT understand those things that are oustide the bounds of his/her reachable knowledge you start to get people who believe in gobbldegook like the author of this article....."
I was wondering if Christians could brilliantly put foraward the above fact in their defense of the Trinity or whatever God-Jesus concept they have. I know there are verses in the New Testament where Jesus seems to present himself as an ordinary man. There are verses which also support claims to his divinity or his being God. So KabirLaw maybe you should not count Christians as confused or ignorant people because God truly exceeds the scope of the human mind. What if God told us on the last day that he came down to Earth in the form of Jesus.. Would you argue with God and start quoting from the Bible, Quran etc. What if Jesus claimed to be God and early Christians believed him to be God(Recently an ancient gravesite was found in Israel with the inscription "TO THE GREAT GOD JESUS") and the verses we find in the today's Bible were added by men who sought to debunk the claims of Jesus divinity ( afterall you muslims claim the Bible has been corrupted). So much has happened in History that when I see human's arguing I think they are really displaying gross ignorance. Many modern day documents,transcripts,scrolls have gone through so much that History must be laughing at our claims to "know". Muslims have long held the belief that the Quran was uncorrupted but recent findings of some parchments at the Great Sanaa mosque of Yemen proves the Quran might have had a "history". Who knows what more "skeletons" might be discovered in the "cupboard" of Islam (the muslims of Mecca,Medina and the Middle East should give archaeologists the space to dig up the history of Islam). (As an African I have seen powers beyond our 3-dimension operate and interact)..............I believe in Jesus as God simple as that.Only God can make me doubt that if he says so at the end of time.

Asus4 Christ

I wasn't talking about Christians in my last post. I was talking about disbelief, Atheism and the concept of an impersonal naturalistic god as propogated by the author of this article.

The following is what my Lord tells us about Christians:

"And nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant."

[The Holy Quran: 5:82]

Kabirlaw:

I wasn’t talking about Christians in my last post. I was talking about disbelief, Atheism and the concept of an impersonal naturalistic god as propogated by the author of this article.

I say:

I believe Mr. Khan was referring to an impersonal god.

Correction, Mr. Khan was not referring to an impersonal god.

Bhagavad Gita : Chapter 11 - verse 7
'ihaika-stham jagat krstsnam pasyadya sa-characharam, mama dehe gudakesha yachchanyad drastum icchasi'

Meaning : O Arjun, whatever you wish to see, behold at once in this body of mine. This universal form can show you whatever you now desire to see & whatever you may want to see in future. Everything moving & non moving, is here completely, in one place.

So muslims claiming about an impersonal god 'Allah'(previously the moon 'God) or the christians claim of 'Jesus christ' born out of virgin mary as the supreme God, is only the subset of 'universal form of the lord. I hope wisdom prevails on these two abrahamic faiths & let leave torturing people of other faiths of what they worship.

If an african tribal wants to see God in 'a crocodile of river Nile' peacefully swimming in the muddy water, let him see the same, until he doesnt force others to beleive in what he beleives.

Peace....

To Mahesh Jain

You said:

So muslims claiming about an impersonal god ‘Allah’(previously the moon ‘God) or the christians claim of ‘Jesus christ’ born out of virgin mary as the supreme God, is only the subset of ‘universal form of the lord. I hope wisdom prevails on these two abrahamic faiths & let leave torturing people of other faiths of what they worship.

I say:

(1) Allah is a supreme and personal God. He is the ONLY true God.
(2) Jesus (AS) was indeed, without a shadow of a doubt, born of a virgin mother.

As for the rest of your comments, the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) did inform mankind to reflect on the creation if you wish to know the creator. So the African man you mentioned (bit of a stereotype you used there because crocodiles are also prevailent in the Western hemisphere, but that's a different argument altogether) can indeed reflect on a creature and see the workings of God in them. The difference between Islam and Hinduism/jainism is that Muslims don't believe that ANY creation can BE God. Because God is ONE, ETERNAL, ABSOLUTE and was not created. Nor do Muslims worship idols or objects or animals or statues.

Kabirlaw says,

(1) Allah is a supreme and personal God. He is the ONLY true God.

Well Mohammed didnt accept whether there is a personal form for 'God'. He neither accepts 'Jesus is 'son of God', even for just a symbolic gesture...

The silly thing is muslims do accept is 'God indeed spoke to 'Prophet moses. Now the question arises, was it a male voice/ or female voice. If God is revealing himself through the audio signals, then why cant he do the same through visual (electro magnetic radiations) ?

Much more silly is your arguement, that creator doesnt have any form which is near similar to the created being.
But at the same time 'Quran says that 'God created 'Adam in his own image.

And as for as '

'Because God is ONE, ETERNAL, ABSOLUTE and was not created.' This concept of Oneness of God, is already been foretold by vedic scriptures & confirmed by 'Bhagavad-Gita'. So 'Quran is simply following what is said by 'the Lord, previous sages & wise people' in this context. So what we are suggesting here is 'Lord is magnanimous' & is his form is also eternal. So basically what form the living beings wants to see, he will bless them in the same form for the sake of his devotees.

'Nor do Muslims worship idols or objects or animals or statues.'

Well, well, one of the primary reasons for this way of thinking is the 'deep fear psychosis, in some people's heart, if they worship 'God in particular form', made up of some 'wood, metal or clay, it can be destroyed by the conquering tribes, or some external aggressors. If that particular idol is broken, it is as if their 'God is destroyed.

Well here the his-story goes, as per some historians. The aryan class of 'Brahmins/Kshatriyas/Vaishyas', had a bitter power struggle between their neighbors ( aryans of Persia ). Indian aryans call the people existing beyond their afghan boundaries as 'mlechchas' the meat eaters.

Persians revert back, by altering the sanskrit words denoting 'asura-medhas', to 'ahura-mazda' their supreme lord. In vedas, 'agni is lowest of 'adityas ( devatas), the same agni' becomes the fire God for 'Zorastrians.

Another reason is being 'Fire is higher energy', compared to some statues of wood, metal etc. It is pure. So they went for the fire form of 'God'.

The concept of 'God evolved much more in the human minds. The 'Jewish tribes ( Patriarch Abraham ), came up with the revised idea - Personal God ( But no form), so this concept is much more stronger than fire God, because the fire can be extinguished.

So 'Lord of Bhagavad - Gita', clarifies our doubts. He is personal/impersonal, with in the scope of human imagination/beyond the scope of human imagination. I hope everybody understands this....

Mahesh Jain:

Well Mohammed didnt accept whether there is a personal form for ‘God’. He neither accepts ‘Jesus is ’son of God’, even for just a symbolic gesture…

I say:

Muslims believe it is blasphemy to call God "Father" because Allah is separate from his creation.

Mahesh Jain:

The concept of ‘God evolved much more in the human minds. The ‘Jewish tribes ( Patriarch Abraham ), came up with the revised idea – Personal God ( But no form), so this concept is much more stronger than fire God, because the fire can be extinguished.

I say:

In Judaism and Christianity, God reaches down to his creation in order to connect with and have a relationship with us.

As for Islam, while it does state that God revealed himself to the prophets to bring people back to his path there is no notion of God wanting to have a relationship with us. All he does is make demands to do this and that.

Kabirlaw said:

"Allah is a supreme and personal God. He is the ONLY true God."

How do you know?

There is other God but Allah is a great and Mohammed peace be upon him the messenger of Allah.

What is the concept of supernatural.. you are discussing about, for e.g. If you take human being as a god, why all in first place and God's son has to be in human form. Christians have 3 or 4 human forms, but Hindus have 33 million gods and goddeses.. Why dont you want to use your brain.

"How do you know?"

Because he just know it. That's it. Easy pie.

Allahu F**ckbar! Allah is the greatest (piece of crap ever), now how does that help me? How does it help you? As far as human kind goes, no religion can offer the truth that science has. Remember science is something that relies on proof, not some crazy prophet ranting about how god created everything. Its archaeology, history and anthropology that has the answers about human life on this planet. As time passes more and more evidence is uncovered that will once and for all prove that your religeon is a lie and your prophet was just another chancer. With regard to evolution, its clearly evident that life took billions of years to evolve into the life forms we see today, and the fossils of these beings show a certain progression in the way we evolved from fish to reptiles to shrew like mammals eventually into ape like species and further on into more refined humans that we are. Refuting evolution is akin to being stubborn in the face of truth. I could never believe in god again, mainly because he's about as real as Santa or the easter bunny. if he does exist he is totaly useless to me.