Can Radical Islam Be Defeated by Modernizing Islam?
Submitted by Sami Alrabaa on Thu, 05/14/2009 - 05:57
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PDF versionDr. Sami Alrabaa
In contrast to most religions of the world, in particular Christianity and Judaism, Islam has not yet gone through a modernization process. While Christians and Jews have managed throughout their history to reconcile religion with freedom, Muslims have not. Why is that?
Before the Industrial Revolution, the Christian Puritans were in charge in their societies. Monks in England and France used to roam the streets and force people to go and pray exactly like the Mutawas (morality police) in today’s Saudi Arabia
In 1600 Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake, accused of being heretic, by the Roman Inquisition for his scientific ideas, which were incompatible with the teachings of the Catholic Church. Bruno’s “crime” was that he dared to suggest the universe was boundless and that the sun and its planets were but one of a number of similar systems. He also suggested that there might be other inhabited worlds with rational beings equal or possibly superior to ourselves.
In 1633 Galileo Galilei was accused of heresy for "following the position of Copernicus,” which was contrary to the authority of Holy Scripture.” Under torture, he was forced to his knees to renounce all belief in Copernican theories, and was thereafter sentenced to house arrest for the remainder of his life.
The 16th and 17th centuries also witnessed religious wars among religious and political leaders.
Religious conviction was the basis for pristine political handling. Kaiser Wilhelm launched World War I under the premise, “Gott ist mit uns“ (God is with us).
In old times, followers of Catholicism, Luther, Calvin, Anabaptists, Quakers, and Unitarians – like radical Muslims, these days – believed that their set of moral rules were superior to all others, prescribed by God, and enforced by punishment, and wanted everybody to observe and impose these rules. By failing to do so, people offend the divine being and corrupt society. For believing so, they waged religious wars.
Die-hard Lutherans attacked Calvinists in Berlin and murdered thousands of them. In the streets of Paris, Catholics killed more than 3,000 Huguenots.
Radical Muslims nowadays are acting like Christians in the old ages. In particular radical Sunnis; they are not at war only with the infidels, i.e. non-Muslims, but also with the Shiites, the Sufis, the Alawites, Ismaelites, the
Druze, and followers of other Muslim sects.
The rise of capitalism, expansion of education, and scientific research in the Western Christian world paved the way for more and more secularism. The German political economist Max Weber linked Calvinism to the rise of capitalism. Calvinism became an influential factor in modernizing religion.
During and after the Industrial Revolution and state building, people in England began to feel of themselves as English before feeling themselves as Protestants, and in France people thought of themselves as French, first and foremost.
In the Arab and Muslim world at large, there is no similar story to be told. The golden ages (700-1300) were followed by five centuries of Othman rule, characterized by despotism, abject backwardness, and poverty. The majority of Arabs thought of themselves as Muslims in the first place. Arab states did not exist until European colonial powers created these states by drawing arbitrary borders on the map.
During the golden ages, the Muslim empire stretched form Spain to Indonesia – an empire that encouraged learning, tolerated critical scholars, translated and preserved scientific books. After that, as the West began rising to establish societies based on personal, scientific and religious freedom, the Arab-Muslim civilization slipped into retreat.
Historians tell the story of Mirza Abu Talib. After visiting the House of Commons in London and hearing that it was debating penalties for criminals, he was amazed and later told his friends back home that the English did not have Sharia therefore they were enacting their own laws. “How stupid!” Abu Talib commented.
Since then, Arabs and Muslims have been about where Europe was in the 11th century, lacking national history, political and economic development in the way to democracy, and reconciliation of religion and freedom. After independence in the 20th century, especially during the Cold War, they were ruled by authoritarian regimes, tolerated by the democratic West for geopolitical considerations,
Fundamentalist Muslims rediscovered Islam in the 20th century. Hassan Al Banna established the Muslim Brotherhood in the late 1920s as the “only” path for development and social justice. He preached that Islam was the solution and there was no better law on earth than the Sharia which comprises both the Koran and Hadeeth. Al Banna stressed that Shari’s contained a vast collection of sacred laws, which prescribed how Muslim should live their mundane and religious life.
In modern history, while the majority of Christians and Jews ignore atrocious passages in the Bible and Talmud, in particular those that denigrate and discriminate against women, and interpret them in historical contexts, fundamentalist Muslims subscribe to each and every atrocious passage in the Koran and Hadeeth as sacred laws. Check out such passages from the Bible and Koran at the end of this article.
While Christianity and Judaism went through a modernization process and “civilized” their own religions, as Rolf Schieder put it, Islam has never gone through such a process, neither in the golden ages nor in modern times. Efforts to do so are choked before they are born. Influential religious establishments like Al Azhar and Wahabism oppose any reform or modernization. They adamantly adhere to both the Koran and Hadeeth as sacred scriptures, which can not and must not be re-interpreted. Critical interpretations are dismissed as blasphemy, and their “perpetrators” are persecuted as heretics.
Arab secular regimes like that of Nasser in Egypt, Assad in Syria, And Saddam Hussein in Iraq fiercely fought Muslim fundamentalists, but they never encouraged modernizing Islam. Nobody dared suggest reforming Islam. The religious establishment has always been extremely conservative.
However, except for Saudi Arabia, all Arab states have, to a great extent, ignored the Sharia as a source of legislation and adopted Western laws.
Even the rule of the Turkish leader Mustafa Kemal Attatürk did not witness any efforts to modernize Islam. Attatürk focused on transforming Turkey into a modern secular state. By doing so he simply marginalized Islam, but did not push for its modernization. Enlightened Muslim scholars were not available in Turkey at the time.
In light of the fact that the majority of influential Arab “Ulama” (Islam theologians) are nowadays conservative, who rarely read a book other than the Koran and Hadeeth and relevant works, as well as lack of a modern independent economy, and the fact that more than 50% of the population is illiterate and jobless, living in abject poverty, no serious successful efforts have been made to reform Islam – i.e. modernize it. Fundamentalist fatwas (edicts) dominate the religious scene in Arab and Muslim world.
Even Islam experts like Muhammad Arkoun, Muhammad Iqbal, Malik Bin Nabi, Muhammad Talbi, Falzur Rahman, and Ali Bulac, who are portrayed, at least in Western academic circles, as modernists/reformists, have not dared touch on atrocious passages in the Koran as unacceptable and irrational in the 20th century. They highlight those passages in the Koran which preach mercy and peace and ignore those passages which explicitly incite to hatred and violence.
Defeating radical Islam militarily has not worked either. Nasser, Assad, and most recently the West, have failed to defeat radical Islam. On the contrary, most intelligence reports indicate that the number of radical Muslims is on the rise.
Attatürk’s experiment also failed. Islamists in Turkey are increasingly gaining more ground, and Turkey is getting more Islamic conservative than ever.
Islamism is spreading very fast although, in practice, the fundamentalist project is void and has an Achilles heel. Its followers ignore the fact that the golden era flourished because of its openness to other cultures and tolerance. The utopian dream of establishing a Muslim state, Muslim Umma, (global nation) as it existed in the golden era, is wishful thinking in an increasingly sophisticated world. Apart from a headscarf, sex-segregation, and suicide bombing, the Islamists have nothing substantial to offer.
In fact, it was the same kind of radical Muslims who contributed to the collapse of the golden era when they slammed the door shut in the face of applying reason and independent thought.
In reality, Islamist fundamentalists fear free debates and freedom of expression through which they would be exposed. What remains is violence, the only “argument” they possess.
In the meantime, Islamists have succeeded in intimidating the West and recruiting apologists. The Danish caricatures of Muhammad, comments by the Pope in Germany, and withdrawing Mozart’s Idomeneo opera are just a few examples.
The West is facing an unprecedented conundrum. While it is upholding freedom of expression as a priceless and indispensable value, it is passively watching how Islamists are intimidating by killing and maiming, and advancing their destructive theocratic intolerant agenda, also in Western communities.
The Islamists’ strategy is very clear. They divide the world into “we and they” and back it propagandistically with Huntington’s “Clash of Civilizations.” They blame “them,” the West, for the spread of poverty in the Muslim world. Most recently, they are alleging that the international financial crisis has not affected the Muslim countries, like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and the UAE, which ostensibly observe “Islamic financial laws.” This allegation is refuted by reality on the ground. Also “Muslim countries” are suffering from the current crisis. Huge sums of petrodollars have been injected by these states to offset the immense losses of its citizens.
In addition, the U.S. State Department has repeatedly urged Arab oil-rich countries to stop their Muslim “charity” organizations from funding terrorist organizations.
In all this, the West cannot wash its hands in innocence. In one way or another, it contributed to the rise and spread of Islamism.
The West, spearheaded by the U.S., was instrumental in fostering Islamists. It assiduously worked to thwart Arab nationalism and stop the spread of socialism during the Cold War. The cooperation between Islamists and the West reached its zenith when the latter massively supported the Taliban to oust the Soviet troops from Afghanistan, which was followed by the rise of Osama bin Laden.
The wake-up call of September 11th was an unprecedented shock to America and the West at large, a blow that left these powers in disarray and mess. In this mess, they still do not want to realize that they are harvesting what they have sewn, that they supported the wrong ally. Still worse, they do not want to draw lessons from their foul foreign policy towards Arab and Muslim regimes.
Still until today, while the West decries the dismal human rights in China, Russia, and Zimbabwe, it ignores the abysmal human rights in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Jordan.
After 9/11, Samuel Huntington’s concept of “Clash of Civilizations” was hijacked by both Islamists and some non-Muslims. The truth of the matter is, such a clash does not exist. The clash is rather between Islamists and the rest of the world. However, those Muslims who are disappointed by the West for supporting Arab totalitarian regimes also tend to approve of this clash.
The majority of Muslims across the globe are ordinary people. Some of them are very religious and some are less religious. However, due to the fact that over 50% of the Muslim population is illiterate and in view of the fact that the Koran is written in old Arabic, very few of them actually understand this book. Besides, several studies indicate that only 10% of men and 5% of women read the Koran.
Hence the majority of Muslims remain unaware of the atrocious passages in the Koran and Hadeeth. They only know what their imams and religious leaders tell them about Islam. Muslims who are aware of these passages act like enlightened Christians and Jews; they ignore them or privately interpret them within historical contexts.
Basically, the core of the problem lies in Saudi schools and madrassas in Muslim communities which teach hatred, discrimination and violence against women and non-Muslims. In some of these schools, teenagers are urged to memorize the Koran from cover to cover. The content and language of the scripture are praised as unique and divine. Students at these schools become easy prey for local militants who once in a while drop by to recruit terrorists.
Verses like 89 of Surah 4 which says, “Slay the enemy wherever you find them” becomes a powerful tool for justifying the unjustifiable.
Modernizing Islam must come from the bottom of the population pyramid. The struggle for modernization must be fought on two fronts: on the economic front and on the medial informational one.
Economic development, jobs, literacy, normal schools, and medical care would make the difference and make people oppose radical Islamists. Freedom of expression would back this process. An economically independent citizen, even with a modest level of education, is usually rational. Until then, the tunnel is long and thorny. This project is costly, but promising. All efforts must be invested in it. It is worth it if the world wants to establish peace and prosperity everywhere. It must be established everywhere in an increasingly globalized world.
However, realistically speaking, neither the Arab and Islamic regimes nor their religious establishments would, at present, allow any reform of Islam in a democratic and free climate. That implies self-suicide for both. Therefore, reforming Islam will have to wait yet for two to three decades until this becomes a tangible reality.
The West, spearheaded by the U.S., could help accelerate the process of reform. The world community must raise the pressure on the Muslims states to reform Islam.
Passages from the Bible
THE REASON BEHIND PAINS OF DELIVERY
[Gen 3:16]
God said to Eve when she tempted Adam, "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing, in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband and he shall rule over you.
MENSES IN THE BIBLE
[Levi. 15:19]
When a woman has a discharge of blood which in her regular discharge from her body, she shall be apart seven days. And WHOSOEVER TOUCHES HER SHALL BE UNCLEAN until the evening. And every thing that she lies upon in her SEPARATION shall be unclean. Every thing also that SHE SITS UPON SHALL BE UNCLEAN. And whosoever touches her bed shall wash his clothes and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the evening. And whosoever touches anything THAT SHE SAT UPON SHALL WASH HIS CLOTHES, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the evening.
And if it be on her bed, or any thing whereon she sits when he touches it: he SHALL BE UNCLEAN UNTIL THE EVENING. And if any man lie with her at all, and her flowers be upon him: he shall be unclean seven days, and all the bed WHEREON SHE LIES SHALL BE UNCLEAN.
And if a woman has an issue of her blood many days out of the time of her separation, or if it run beyond the time of her SEPARATION: All the days of the issue of her uncleanness shall be as the days of her SEPARATION, she shall be unclean. Every bed whereon she lies all the days of her issue shall be unto her as the bed of her SEPARATION, and whatsoever she sits upon shall be unclean, as the uncleanness of her SEPARATION.
And WHOSOEVER TOUCHES THOSE THINGS SHALL BE UNCLEAN and shall wash his clothes and bathes himself in water, and he BE UNCLEAN UNTIL THE EVENING. But if she be cleansed of her issue, then she shall number to herself seven days, and after that she shall be clean. And on the eighth day she shall take unto her two turtles or two young pigeons, and bring them unto the priest to the door of the meeting tent.
POSTPARTUM IN THE BIBLE
[Levi. 12:2]
If a woman conceives, and bears a MALE CHILD, then she shall be unclean seven days.. But if she bears a FEMALE CHILD then she shall be unclean two weeks.
AFTER AN INTERCOURSE
[Levi. 15:16]
If a man has an emission of semen, he shall bathe his whole body in water, and be unclean until the evening. Every garment and every skin on which the semen comes shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the evening.
[Levi. 22:17] WHEN THE SUN IS DOWN HE SHALL BE CLEAN.
[Levi. 15:18]
If a man lies with a woman and has an emission of semen both of them shall bathe themselves in water, and be unclean until the evening.
REJOICE WITH THEM !!
[Prov. 5:18]
REJOICE WITH THE WIFE of your youth. Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; LET HER BREASTS SATISFY YOU AT ALL TIMES.
[Song. 8:8]
We have a little sister, and she has no breasts. What shall we do for our sister on the day when is spoken for? I was a wall, and MY BREASTS WERE LIKE TOWERS.
WOMAN'S VEIL IN THE BIBLE
[1 Corin. 11:5]
But any woman who prays and prophesies with her head unveiled dishonors her head - it is the same as if her head were shaven, for if a woman will not veil herself then she should cut off her hair. But if it is disgraceful for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her wear a veil. JUDGE FOR YOURSELVES; is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? (It seems that Christians are unaware of the obligation of the veil in the Bible, which made me put their verses in this book, and for those who attack the veil in Islam should notice these verses of their own Bible, and notice also this verse "Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get.)
WOMAN IS NOT THE GLORY OF GOD
[1 Corin. 11:7]
For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man, for man was not made for woman, but woman from man, neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.
REMAIN SILENCE!
[1 Tim 2:11-14]
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
SILENCE IN CHURCHES
[1 Corin 14:34]
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to
speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
WOMAN IS EVIL !
[Zech. 5:7]
The leaden cover was lifted, there was a woman sitting, and he (the angel) said: this is wickedness.
GOD MAKES PEOPLE FALL IN ADULTERY
[Amos 7:16]
God said to Am-a-zi'ah "You say, prophesy not against Israel and drop not your word against the house of Isaac?
Thus the Lord says: YOUR WIFE SHALL BE AN HARLOT in the city and your sons and your daughters shall fall by the sword."
[Jer. 8:9]
They have rejected the word of the Lord. Therefore I WILL GIVE THEIR WIVES UNTO OTHERS.
[Jer. 13:22]
"For the greatness of your iniquity are your skirts discovered, AND YOUR HEELS MADE BARE. I will discover your skirts upon your face, that your shame may appear I have seen your adulteries, and your neighings the lewdness of your whoredoms."
HIDE WOMAN'S VOICE !
[1 Corin. 14:34]
The woman should keep silence in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is any thing they desire to know let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.
[1 Timo. 2:9]
Woman should adorn themselves modestly and sensibly in seemly apparel, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly attire but by good deeds.
WOMAN FOR THE MAN
[1 Corin 11:5-10]
But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovereddishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels."
HOW TO RESCUE HER HUSBAND
[Deut. 25:11]
When men fight with one another, and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him, and puts out her hand seizes him by the private parts, then you shall cut off her hand; your eye shall have not pity.
MARRIAGE BY FORCE !!
[Deut. 25:5]
If brothers dwell together, and one of them dies and has no son, the wife of the dead shall not be marries outside of the family to a stranger; her husband's brother shall go into her, and take her as his wife.
WHAT IF HE REFUSES ?
[Deut. 25:7]
And if the man does not wish to take his brother's wife then his brother's wife shall go up to the gate of the elders, and say, "My husband's brother refuses to perpetuate his brother's name in Israel.. Then the elders of his city shall call him.
And if he persists.. Then his brother's wife shall go up to him in the presence of the elders, and pull his sandal off his foot, and spit in his face; and shall answer and say: So it shall be done to the man who does not build up his brother's house. And the name of his house shall be called in Israel THE HOUSE OF HIM THAT HAD HIS SANDAL PULLED OFF.
UPRIGHT WOMEN!
[Eccless 7:26-28]
And I find more bitter than death the woman who is a snare, whose heart is a trap and whose hands are chains. The man who pleases God will escape her, but the sinner she will ensnare....while I was still searching but not finding, I found one upright man among a thousand but not one upright woman among them all".
KILL WOMEN, CHILDREN, ANIMALS !!
[Ezek. 9:5]
And the Lord said, "Go through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have you pity. SLAY UTTERLY OLD AND YOUNG, BOTH MAIDS AND LITTLE CHILDREN, AND WOMEN.
[Num. 31:1]
And the Lord said unto Moses, "Avenge the children of the Mid'-an'ites.. They warred against the Mid'-i-an'ites, as the Lord commanded Moses, and they slay all the males. And they took all women as captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods. And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.
Moses said, "HAVE YOU SAVED ALL THE WOMEN ALIVE? NOW KILL EVERY MALE AMONG THE LITTLE ONES, AND KILL EVERY WOMAN that has known a man by lying with him, but all the young girls who have not known a man by lying with him keep alive for yourselves.
[Josh 6:16]
Joshua said to the people of Israel, "The Lord has given you the city (of the Canaanites).. all silver, and gold, and vessels of brass and iron, are consecrated unto the Lord: They shall come into the treasury of the Lord. The people utterly DESTROYED ALL THAT WAS IN THE CITY, BOTH MAN AND WOMAN, YOUNG AND OLD, AND OX AND SHEEP, AND ASS, WITH THE EDGE OF THE SWORD.
KILLING, KIDNAPPING, SLAVERY
[Josh. 16:10]
So the Canaanites have dwelt in the midst of E'phraim to this day, but become slaves to do forced labour. (see also Joshua 17:13 and Judg. 1:30)
[Judg. 21:10]
The congregation of Benjamin sent twelve thousand of their bravest men, and commanded them, "Go and smite the inhabitants of Ja'-besh-gil'ead with the edge of the sword; also the women and the little ones. Every male and every
woman that has lain with a male YOU SHALL UTTERLY DESTROY.
And they found among the inhabitants four hundred YOUNG VIRGINS who had not known a man by lying with him; and they brought them to the camp of Shiloh, which is the land of Canaan. And Benjamin returned at that time, and they gave them the women whom they had saved alive of the women of Ja'besh-gil'ead, but they did not suffice for them.
STEALING WOMEN !!
And they commanded the Benjaminites, saying:"Go and lie in wait in the vineyard, and watch, if the daughters of Shiloh go out to dance in the dances, then come out of the vineyard and seize each man his wife from the daughters of Shiloh. And the Benjaminites did so, and took their wives from the dancers whom they caught.
KILL THEM AND TAKE THEIR PROPERTIES
[Deut. 20:10]
When you draw near to a city to fight against it, offer terms of peace to it. And if its answer to you is peace and it opens to you, then all the people who are found in it SHALL BE FORCED LABOUR FOR YOU AND SHALL SERVE YOU.
But if it makes no peace with you, then you shall besiege it, .. YOU SHALL PUT ALL ITS MALES TO THE SWORD, BUT THE WOMEN AND THE LITTLE ONES, the cattle and every thing else in the city all its spoil, YOU SHALL TAKE AS BOOTY FOR YOURSELVES; AND YOU SHALL ENJOY THE SPOIL OF YOUR ENEMIES.
………………………….
Passages from the Koran
Literally, the Koran says the following about the Jews, Christians, and other “unbelievers”:
“O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.” (Sura 5, verse 51).
“And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah DESTROY them; how they are turned away!” (Sura 9, verse 30).
“And the Jews will not be pleased with you, nor the Christians until you follow their religion. Say: Surely Allah's guidance, that is the (true) guidance. And if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, you shall have no guardian from Allah, nor any helper.” (Sura 2, verse 120).
“And KILL them (the unbelievers) wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.” (Sura 2, verse 191).
“Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather than believers; and whoever does this, he shall have nothing of (the guardianship of) Allah, but you should guard yourselves against them, guarding carefully; and Allah makes you cautious of (retribution from) Himself; and to Allah is the eventual coming.” (Sura 3, verse 28).
“And guard yourselves against the fire which has been prepared for the unbelievers.” (Sura 3, verse 131)
“And when you journey in the earth, there is no blame on you if you shorten the prayer, if you fear that those who disbelieve will cause you distress, surely the unbelievers are your open ENEMY.” (Sura 4, verse 101).
“O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).” (Sura 9, verse 123).
“Surely We have prepared for the unbelievers chains and shackles and a burning fire.” (Sura 76, verse 4).
“O you who believe! if you obey a party from among those who have been given the Book (The Jews and Christians), they will turn you back as unbelievers after you have believed.” (Sura 3, verse 100).
“And their taking usury (interests on money) though indeed they were forbidden it and their devouring the property of people falsely, and We have prepared for the unbelievers from among them a painful chastisement.” (Sura 4. verse 161).
“Surely Allah has cursed the unbelievers (Jews, Christians and followers of other faiths) and has prepared for them a burning fire.” (Sura 33, verse 64).
“And whoever does not believe in Allah and His Apostle, then surely We have prepared burning fire for the unbelievers.” (Sura 48, verse 13).
Does Allah discriminate? The Koran says:
“You are the best of the nations raised up for (the benefit of) men; you enjoin what is right and forbid the wrong and believe in Allah; and if the followers of the Book had believed it would have been better for them; of them (some) are believers and most of them are transgressors.” (Sura 3, verse 110).
Therefore, what does the Koran say about those who turn their back to Islam and commit apostasy?
“They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them (the unbelievers) friends until they flee (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and KILL them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.” (Sura 4, verse 89).
Now, what does the Koran say about women? Here are also some quotations:
“Men are superior to women because Allah has made so. Therefore good women are obedient, and (as to) those (women) on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and BEAT them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.” (Sura 4, verse 34).
“And as for those who are guilty of an indecency from among your women, call to witnesses against them, four (witnesses) from among you; then if they bear witness confine them to the houses until death takes them away or Allah opens some way for them.” (Sura 4, verse 15).
According to the Koran, a woman’s testimony is worth half of that of a man.
O you who believe! when you deal with each other in contracting a debt for a fixed time then call in to witness from among your men two witnesses; but if there are not two men, then one man and two women from among those whom you choose to be witnesses, so that if one of the two errs, the second of the two may remind the other.” (Sura 2, verse 282).
As far as sex is concerned, women are sex objects, according to the Koran. They must be ready for intercourse any time the husband wishes so.
“Your wives are a tilth for you, so go into your tilth when you like, and do good beforehand for yourselves, and be careful (of your duty) to Allah, and know that you will meet Him, and give good news to the believers.” (Sura 2, verse 223).
During menstruation, however, men should keep away from women; they are filthy. The Koran says:
“It (menstruation) is a discomfort; therefore keep aloof from the women during the menstrual discharge and do not go near them until they have become clean; then when they have cleansed themselves, go in to them as Allah has commanded you; surely Allah loves those who turn much (to Him), and He loves those who purify themselves.” (Sura 2, verse 222).
Women, according to the Koran, are, in general, unclean creature. After a Muslim has washed and prepared himself for prayer, he should not touch a woman. Therefore, “pious” Muslims never shake hands with women.
“O you who believe! do not go near prayer until you have washed yourselves; and if you have touched women, and you cannot find water, betake yourselves to pure earth, then wipe your faces and your hands; surely Allah is Pardoning, Forgiving.” (Sura 4, verse 43).
In case of inheritance, a woman inherits half of the portion a man inherits:
“They ask you for a decision of the law. Say: Allah gives you a decision concerning the person who has neither parents nor offspring; if a man dies (and) he has no son and he has a sister, she shall have half of what he leaves, and he shall be her heir she has no son; but if there be two (sisters), they shall have two-thirds of what he leaves; and if there are brethren, men and women, then the male shall have the like of the portion of two females; Allah makes clear to you, lest you err; and Allah knows all things.” (Sura 4, verse 176).
And what kind of punishment does a thief get, according to the Koran, regardless how much they steal?
“And (as for) the man who steals and the woman who steals, cut off their hands as a punishment for what they have earned, an exemplary punishment from Allah; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.” (Sura 5, verse 38).
Saudi Arabia is the only country in the world that uses the Koran as its day-to-day law for all kinds of disputes and crimes. It is the Shari’a (Islamic law). For Islamists and conservative Muslims, Shari’a is the constitution and law that must prevail everywhere. They argue, what is better than the law of Allah which He, via the Engle Gabriel revealed to the Prophet Muhammad 1400 years ago?
King Abdullah, the absolute monarch of Saudi Arabia, said on a televised speech August 27, 2008, “We do not need democracy, we do not need political parties, we do not need Western human rights, we do not need their freedom of speech. What we need is the Koran. It regulates our life perfectly. It is the best legislation in the history of mankind, it is the word of Allah. There is nothing better than Allah’s law.”
The “Hadeeth”, a collection of statements and comments which Prophet Muhammad allegedly made during his life time is also full of atrocities. Here is a sample:
“A woman came to the Prophet and admitted that she had committed adultery and thereafter became pregnant. The Prophet summoned her husband and all people of Median (in Saudi Arabia). He said, ‘This woman committed adultery. Therefore, after she delivers her innocent baby, all of you are going to stone her to death. This is Allah’s verdict.’ After she delivered her baby she was stoned to death in the center of the town.” (Narrated by Muslim, (a close contemporary follower of Muhammad), cited by Khoury, The Koran, p. 550).
FamilySecurityMatters.org Contributing Editor Dr. Sami Alrabaa, an ex-Muslim, is a professor of Sociology and an Arab-Muslim culture specialist. He has taught at Kuwait University, King Saud University, and Michigan State University. He also writes for the Jerusalem Post.
Brilliant article from Dr.
Brilliant article from Dr. Sami Alrabaa. Few minutes ago I had praised Wagamama for linking Islamic and Christian scriptures. Sami has done an excellent job. The truth is that Christians and Jews were forced to kneel down before democracy and as a result they had to ignore or forget the stupid laws mentioned in the Bible and Torah. Renaissance paved the way for development in the west. However, such a feat is impossible in the Islamic world. They are doomed to the point of no return.
As one grows older, one would
As one grows older, one would start noticing things a hot head does not!
I would say majority of Arab moselms too are completely ignorant about what's in qrand.They are completely in ignorance about the misdeeds of the prophet.
I believe these moslems are also secularisable. Education of the right type and enlightenment are the tools.Look at the cretins of biblical variety posting here.These cretins still believe in the corpse having risen and gone up! They still think earth is flat.Cretins breed cretins.
Christians killed all sorts of people including christians.One has to be absolutely stupid to not notice it. Well if you are stupid enough to see a corner in a sphere, you will be stupid enough to believe in any thing
selam to All the west knew
selam to All
the west knew the modernisation after the liberalisation from irons of the church. Muslims knew their decadence when they let their Qouran and Kaliphate. to be a cristian or jewish foundamentalist is just to stay back in the past. in opposite: To be a muslim fondamentalist knowing qouran and the realy Islam, it will be civilized humanity.
Eduart
Simply marvelous.!!!
Simply marvelous.!!!
The OT was for JEWS ONLY no
The OT was for JEWS ONLY no one else.
The NT was for all Christians andthose who desired to be one and the rules.
Muhammad copied from Sabeans, Judaism, christendom not christianity, Hinduism, and whatever Muhammadmade up.
Christendom was reform because they had strayed from christianity to the extent that they burned people and forced their religion on people. the difference is the bible never said do those things. The Quran did tell Muslims to behead, cut FGMs kill all non-muslims. The Bible never told christians to do that evil. Christendom did all of it. They reformed because some one read the bible and held them to the standards of the bible for christians, not Jews, People always try to use the OT for christians when christianity didnt start until Jesus was named the Christ in 30 CE. David and solomon were Jews, not Christians. There were no Christians before Christ. To categorize the OT as Christian is in error.
its not democracy that
its not democracy that changed Christian it Jesus Christ who broke all the old testament laws of Judaism gave Two law "you shall love your God with all your heart and all your soul and You shall love your neighbor as yourself. [Matthew 22:39] "
man sinned with God and became a sinner , every sinner is unclean with the lord , In the old testament although man was sinful by nature but he was required to be ritually clean during worshiping at the lord temple where the presence of the lord would be present " that is why women with menses and male after having sex were pronounced ritually unclean ,
but Jesus Christ mad us all clean with his pure blood that was shed of the cross for all mankind every one is equal in the eye of God wither a sinner or believer
"
concerning killing of those
concerning killing of those ppl it was not a commandment to be followed , it was the lord who was in command of Israel , the Lord had a plan for all mankind to to restore the relationship between man and God , God chose a nation to bring forth a the Messiah "Jesus Christ " , Through out history Satan had tried to destroy the nation because he new his enemy very who would crush his head
God knew Satan who used these nation to destroy Israel , there was no other option but to destroy them completely , whenever a nation would the destroyed their inheritance sheep's and cattels were not destroyed but taken , there was no point of destroying them ,
The same happened when ever Israel sinned against lord used to hand them over to the power of their enemies , including their women children and live stock , lord is never one sided he was just and fair in all he has done
the lord is in perfect control of everything nothing happens in the world without lord allowing it , In everything the lord has done there was a reason behind it the lord see the future we don't see he knows what the future and what must be done , eg , Lord warned Saul to completely to destroy the edomities but Saul disobeniance to the lord and spared their children women and men below 20
if soul would have destroyed them ther would have been no Lebanese Syrians Iranians and present day Palestinians for Israel to fight with
another instance " The lord promised Abraham that he would give him a child through his wife Shara but Abraham lack of faith in lord slept with his maid servant Hagar, who gave birth to Ishmael , if only had Abraham had obeyed God
there would have been no Ishmael through who Muhammad came and established Islam who all are trying to fight so hard and ultimately cause a nuclear war God saw the feature and warned man , Men disobey God thinkinh it is foolish
so u see when the lord gave a
so u see when the lord gave a commandments and law there are reason behind it , people by think they are intelligent and know everything , if u want to know what is there in the Bible try learning from it with a right mind not pick few verses , you can go on picking up verses form the Bible and every verse will have some reason behind what God did ,
Satan in his master plan knew that it is now impossible to stop the growth of christanity , and created the religion Islam which is nothing but Christianity in the revers , and perverted Christianity catholic , Today he uses evolution even thought it collapses under its own weight and no real proof media still projects it as the ultimate answer to creation ,
That is why Jesus said in the last days men shall become lovers of them self
they would have a heart that readily accept myth and would follow them there would be false doctrines and false preachers , There would be great falling away of faith and there would be great deception where even the elite would be deceived all these must come true so it is not surprising when u read the da vincie code or watch Documentaries such as Christ never existed and teach evolution in class ,
The world would never be better without religion it would be only worse , But the every bit of bible will come true christanity will ultimately size to exist
sorry for grammatical mistakes
Raisin Head, Why do you keep
Raisin Head,
Why do you keep talking Old Testament is for jews only? How do you know that Adam and Eve were created by God if not the Old Testament? How do you know Jesus is the prophecied Messiah of the OT?
There are so many better ways of replying to Mr. Alrabaa and other christian critics here than this usual lame and pathetic reply of "OT was for jews only". And personally I see OT very christian as much as the NT is.
There is a distinct
There is a distinct difference between bible and quran. One says to love your enemy and another says kill your enemy. So, if the christians commit murder , they are non-complying to bible and therefore sinning ; whereas if muslim commit murder, they are complying the quran, hence heaven is assured. SO I REST MY CASE AND YOU BE THE FAIR JUDGE.
Mr. Alrabaa said, (It seems
Mr. Alrabaa said,
(It seems that Christians are unaware of the obligation of the veil in the Bible, which made me put their verses in this book, and for those who attack the veil in Islam should notice these verses of their own Bible, and notice also this verse “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get.)
Christian attack on the islamic veil is only secondary. There are so many primary things we consider islam to be false. Also when a christian attack the islamic veil, he/she is doing that under secular ideals, especially when muslims use any islamic symbols to segreggate themselves with the "us" and "them" mentality, in non muslim countries.
As for christian veil and other anti women scenarios in the bible, I do not have a good answer. All I can say is I consider a christian is supposed to be a liberated person, a free person indeed. And when a christian gets to know that, that will be the best thing.
””While Christians and Jews
””While Christians and Jews have managed throughout their history to reconcile religion with freedom, Muslims have not.””
Wrong statement:
The Christians and Jews particularly the believers (not the by birth ones) have not managed to become free from the clutches of any belief system/s as yet is a fact.
All the western scientific or social achievements are/were possible due to the people;who were intelligent and conscious enough to have managed to grow out of those evil cults .
And that was possible due to the two world wars of the twentieth century . Both the world wars of the last century were caused by the evil cult called Christianity. Those were the wars fought by the Christians mostly against the Christians, the Jews and the Muslims also.
History is the proof , Hitler was a Christian that too a fanatic and devout one.
Adolf Hitler was saying to his people," This war is holy"; it was a crusade. He was simply using Christianity's contribution. He was a devout Christian, and believed himself to be the reincarnation of the prophet Elijah. He thought himself equal to Jesus Christ, same as Paul.Because he was trying to do what Jesus and Paul could not do. All that Jesus succeeded in doing was getting crucified by the Jews. ( that's the reason why he was killing the Jews)
Hitler was almost successful. If he had succeeded-- which was 99% possible--- then the whole world would have been purified of all that is Jewish, of all that is non-Christian. Same as the Taliban Muslims or the Wahhabi Muslims like Bin Laden etc. are doing now. Those cults are after world domination , political power over people only. No spirituality no freedom of any kind.
No scientific or social developments have ever happened because of Islam or Christianity , no science can be found in Bible (old/new testicles) and Qu'rand the book of prostitution.
Both the Cults are/were and have been against Science, against freedom. Modern day Catholics are against against birth control and abortion, the Jehovah's witness are against blood transfusion etc . Just like their Islamic counter parts . Christianity was against Galileo and are against Darwin is a known fact.
[offtopic] Is it possible to
[offtopic] Is it possible to register into the forum? I have tried it without any success. [/offtopic]
your are talking about one
your are talking about one side of the coin.
like muslims christian pastors from all over the world are pouring millions of dollars in developing countries particularly india converting hindus destabilising governments all over the world.
why blame islam
christians are following the same path
# 8. bigboss( A Christian)
# 8. bigboss( A Christian) Says:
"""so u see when the lord gave a commandments and law there are reason behind it , people by think they are intelligent and know everything , if u want to know what is there in the Bible try learning from it with a right mind not pick few verses , you can go on picking up verses form the Bible and every verse will have some reason behind what God did , -----------------
And the Muslims say the same thing about Qu'rand "-- try learning from it with a right mind not pick few verses --""
Do I have to say Islam and Christianity are two sides of the same coin called Evil Cult??? Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
[...] Vote Can Radical Islam
[...] Vote Can Radical Islam Be Defeated by Modernizing Islam? [...]
i will explain u in simple
i will explain u in simple language
dont blame only islamists, leave aside quran and bible.
christians are commiting atrocities against hindus in india ,as are muslims
i dont know about any cult
entire N-E india is on the verge of conversion from christian money
i am talking about human values
christians are also destroying the culture of india(bharat)
This is off topic for--
This is off topic for--
""13. Master Yoda Says:
May 14th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
[offtopic] Is it possible to register into the forum? I have tried it without any success. [/offtopic]""
Go to ( you are on the main page)Main page --left column -- click Forum--- Go down the page and click " I agree"-- on the top line click " Register " and follow the instructions. I doubt if you can use the same ID " Master Yoda " again , but you can try "Masteryoda" or some other alternatives. Have a nice net surfing.
# 12 . "Hitler believed
# 12 .
"Hitler believed himself to be the reincarnation of the prophet Elijah. He thought himself equal to Jesus Christ, same as Paul."
What a coincident : Iranian monkey president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad thinks : he is the reincarnation of the legendary Imam Mahdi .
Not just Islam and Christianity but all similar evil cults have their prophets and the reincarnations of their prophets.
hi all, it looks like as if
hi all,
it looks like as if conversion into christianity is done by compulsion. The answer is no. The hindus are converting in their own free will. so, why are some guys here are obsessed with the word cult and equate to christianity. read yourself the bible and you may end up believing it yourself. Of course, someone has to provide the bible to you , and that is what the ministry of jesus are doing. I rest my case.
cks No one converts to
cks
No one converts to Christianity out of love for Jesus Christ, they do it for the love of the Euros and dollars. Being from South Asia, we are fully aquainted with the ways of the scumbag missionaries.
Missioanaries have been able to divide people, not just in India, but throughout Asia wherever they have gone. They are using this policy big time in India and Sri Lanka. Especially the Baptists who are more fanatical than Muslims.
As or the Bible, I have read it plent of times, and I have found it be stupid and childish at places and extremely voilent at others.
As for the so called message of love, you should sometimes read Jainism or Buddhism. You will feel ashamed to call urself a Christian.
Why do you keep talking Old
Why do you keep talking Old Testament is for jews only? How do you know that Adam and Eve were created by God if not the Old Testament? How do you know Jesus is the prophecied Messiah of the OT?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i never said old testaments is for Jews only , perhaps u dint get the point , I said it was given to the Jewish ppl ,
it was thought the Jewish ppl
it was thought the Jewish ppl that redemption came to the world and the authority to worship God without any rituals or sacrifice , OT is much as important as NT , without OT the NT is incomplete ,
i will explain u in simple
i will explain u in simple language
dont blame only islamists, leave aside quran and bible.
christians are commiting atrocities against hindus in india ,as are muslims
i dont know about any cult
entire N-E india is on the verge of conversion from christian money
i am talking about human values
christians are also destroying the culture of india(bharat)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
man u being hearing a lot of stories these Christians pastors are spending millions of dollars in fishing ppl in India from where do all those money come from unites states i suppose , US don't even have money to run their country why would they give money to convert Hindus , do u know GOD TV barley made money by the grace of God to pay it bills , secondly u cannot convert ppl by just paying money , there hasent been a single case registered or proof that people are being converted , ppl in USA and Europe are hardly bothered of christanity
then why would the spend
then why would the spend money in converting people in India, in fact the truth is that in Europe they are trying hard to get rid of Christianity,
If they were concerned of converting would the government allow the book like Da vince code to be published and
man wake up and stop believing lies ,
bigboss, that was my reply to
bigboss, that was my reply to Raisin Head and not to you.
Also I urge you not to use so much energy defending Christianity here at FFI. I am a christian and I used to feel that way for I thought Indians who come here were ignorant of the bible. But I came to know through experience that they are fully knowledgeable in it. To these type of people there is nothing you can do, it only goes to ignite meaningless debate about Hinduism and Christianity instead of concetrating to Islam.
[...] Vote Can Radical Islam
[...] Vote Can Radical Islam Be Defeated by Modernizing Islam? [...]
[...] Vote Can Radical Islam
[...] Vote Can Radical Islam Be Defeated by Modernizing Islam? [...]
[...] Vote Can Radical Islam
[...] Vote Can Radical Islam Be Defeated by Modernizing Islam? [...]
[...] Vote Can Radical Islam
[...] Vote Can Radical Islam Be Defeated by Modernizing Islam? [...]
[...] Vote Can Radical Islam
[...] Vote Can Radical Islam Be Defeated by Modernizing Islam? [...]
[...] Vote Can Radical Islam
[...] Vote Can Radical Islam Be Defeated by Modernizing Islam? [...]
eduartts wrote: selam to
eduartts wrote:
selam to All
the west knew the modernisation after the liberalisation from irons of the church. Muslims knew their decadence when they let their Qouran and Kaliphate. to be a cristian or jewish foundamentalist is just to stay back in the past. in opposite: To be a muslim fondamentalist knowing qouran and the realy Islam, it will be civilized humanity.
Eduart
Oh really? Then how come most Islamic countries are still stuck in the 7th century while the kafir world ( including the Christians ) are totally advanced in the sciences and have the most freedoms?
Halal pork wrote: History is
Halal pork wrote:
History is the proof , Hitler was a Christian that too a fanatic and devout one.
Adolf Hitler was saying to his people,” This war is holy”; it was a crusade. He was simply using Christianity’s contribution. He was a devout Christian, and believed himself to be the reincarnation of the prophet Elijah. He thought himself equal to Jesus Christ, same as Paul.Because he was trying to do what Jesus and Paul could not do. All that Jesus succeeded in doing was getting crucified by the Jews. ( that’s the reason why he was killing the Jews)
Hitler was not a Christian, he believed in the occult and viewed the Catholic pope and the Catholic Church as a threat to Nazism. In fact he did make plans to kidnap the pope, but did not follow through. The Nazis harassed the Churches, sent clergy to concentration camps, and Hitler tried to replace Catholicism with his own brand of ideology.
#27 True. Hitler admired
#27 True. Hitler admired Islam and Muhammad. He said the Muslims were good at dying and he wished the nazi were as decicated. In the end he allowed the Muslims to be in his army. an entire army of Bosnia Muslims helped Hitler kill Jews and many christians.
Hitler hated Christians and said they were too soft. He killed 6 million Jews and the rest of over 19 million were non-Jews. He used the Pope and the Pope Pius tried to appease him. Hitler was into the occult like Muhammad was into the occult. Muhammad said black women were a sign of a bad disease. Omens were occult-moon god worship. Mo said allah turned Jews into rats-occult
Raisin Head wrote:#27 True.
Raisin Head wrote:#27 True. Hitler admired Islam and Muhammad. He said the Muslims were good at dying and he wished the nazi were as decicated. In the end he allowed the Muslims to be in his army. an entire army of Bosnia Muslims helped Hitler kill Jews and many christians.
Hitler hated Christians and said they were too soft. He killed 6 million Jews and the rest of over 19 million were non-Jews. He used the Pope and the Pope Pius tried to appease him. Hitler was into the occult like Muhammad was into the occult. Muhammad said black women were a sign of a bad disease. Omens were occult-moon god worship. Mo said allah turned Jews into rats-occult
No Hitler did not have a Pope because Pope Pius actually saved 800,000 Jews from the Nazis and had spoken against the Nazi regime, but he did have a Mufti.
#29 The Pope did save many
#29 The Pope did save many Italians Jews, but was too slow to save the German Jews and Polish Jews. According to the book called the Deputy he tried to appease Hitler and waited too late. Many Jews were also Nazi and before they realized it they were in death camps. I have phots of Jewish Nazi and Afro Nazi as they trusted their government. Hitler was a con artist like Muhammad was and as out government is today. He was a Domocratic Socialist and an Islamomarxist. The Mufti of Jerusalem was Hussein.
Raisin Head wrote: #29 The
Raisin Head wrote:
#29 The Pope did save many Italians Jews, but was too slow to save the German Jews and Polish Jews. According to the book called the Deputy he tried to appease Hitler and waited too late. Many Jews were also Nazi and before they realized it they were in death camps. I have phots of Jewish Nazi and Afro Nazi as they trusted their government. Hitler was a con artist like Muhammad was and as out government is today. He was a Domocratic Socialist and an Islamomarxist. The Mufti of Jerusalem was Hussein.
Raisin Head that book is false. In the time between 1945 until 1963 when the book was written it was believed the Pope did everything he could to save the Jews. When Pius died in 1958, Golda Meir stated The life of our times was enriched by a voice speaking out great moral truths above the tumult of daily conflict. We mourn a great servant of peace. Last month the vatican archives released records proving that Pope Pius did save Jews by telling the Churches to open up to Jewish refugees ( it was not just the Italian Jews who were saved ). Castle Gandolfo was a haven for Jewish refugees fleeing from the Nazis. Before he became Pope Pius Cardinal Pacelli drafted the papal encyclical, MIT BRENNEDNDER SURGE, in which he denounced Nazi paganism and racism. The document was smuggled into Germany in March, 1937 and read from all Catholic pulpits, which pissed off the Nazis.
As for The Deputy, that book might have been written by the Pope's political enemies, which where the Communists.
Yeah there were Jews who supported the Nazis and Hitler repaid their generosity.
Ok Marie I will research more
Ok Marie I will research more as I am willing to retract. I know some of the survivors who were non-Jews from Germany and said some Catholic priest helped the Nazi as they hated the jews for being properous. I dont know as I wasnt there but I will ask them for facts. they were in some of the death camps, the ones I am talking about.
I saw a picture about the cardinals and their involvement in WW2. did you see that movie. I know movies are mostly based on some facts but mostly anti catholic
Raisin Head wrote: I saw a
Raisin Head wrote:
I saw a picture about the cardinals and their involvement in WW2. did you see that movie. I know movies are mostly based on some facts but mostly anti catholic
What's the name of the movie?
#33 i will try to find it.
#33 i will try to find it.
Raisin Head wrote: #33 i
Raisin Head wrote:
#33 i will try to find it.
Ok.
#35 Read the book Hitler and
#35 Read the book Hitler and pope pius XII.
Raisin Head wrote: #35 Read
Raisin Head wrote:
#35 Read the book Hitler and pope pius XII.
That book and other ones have been debunked by the Myth of Hitler's Pope by Rabbi David G. Galin.
#37 Pope Pius got the bad
#37 Pope Pius got the bad prerss because he didnt excommunicate Hitler nor did he excommunicate the priest who sided with Hitler.. He was never put out of the church even though the Pope knew that Hitler was killing Jews and other christians. He issued a weak response, but was successful in getting many Jews to south america. He saved many Jewish kids by baptizing them as Catholics. Rabbi Galin was an apologist for the cause of saving the few Jews he could from ridicule in Italty. I asked the survivors of the Holocaust, they said they were unaware of anything the Pope did as they were in the death camps and still have the mark of the Jews in the camps. yellow. Hitler got that from the MUslims in Iran which made the Jews wear yellow and the Christians wear blue
Raisin Head wrote: #37 Pope
Raisin Head wrote:
#37 Pope Pius got the bad prerss because he didnt excommunicate Hitler nor did he excommunicate the priest who sided with Hitler.. He was never put out of the church even though the Pope knew that Hitler was killing Jews and other christians. He issued a weak response, but was successful in getting many Jews to south america. He saved many Jewish kids by baptizing them as Catholics. Rabbi Galin was an apologist for the cause of saving the few Jews he could from ridicule in Italty. I asked the survivors of the Holocaust, they said they were unaware of anything the Pope did as they were in the death camps and still have the mark of the Jews in the camps. yellow. Hitler got that from the MUslims in Iran which made the Jews wear yellow and the Christians wear blue
The problem with excommunicating Hitler or Nazi sympathizer at that time is that Pope Pius would have put the Catholic Church in danger and would have drawn attention to the Churches activities of saving the Jews.
Also from what I understand with the exception of that document smuggled into Germany, the Germans who were under control of the Nazis where unaware of the Pope's activities, reason being was because there was no thing such as free speech in Germany and all media was controlled by the Nazis.
They accusations about the Pope having a relationship with the Nazis were made on records that the Vatican released at the time which were partial or incomplete.
They also based their assumptions on their misunderstanding of the Concordate , to whiich they stated it was the Vatican making a pact with Hitler, when in reality the Concordate was intent was to ensure the Nazis would leave the Churches alone, a pact they did not keep. In fact the use of the Concordate originated during the time of Napoleon to protect the Churches.
Document said to confirm Pius XII's efforts to save Jews
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By John Thavis
Catholic News Service
Thursday, March 05, 2009
VATICAN CITY (CNS)—A document found in a Rome convent confirms that Pope Pius XII quietly ordered church institutions to open their doors to Jews fleeing Nazi arrest and deportation, a church expert said.
"The Holy Father wants to save his children, including the Jews, and orders that hospitality be shown to these persecuted people in the convents," said a note found in the historical journal of the Augustinian Community of Santi Quattro Coronati.
The note, written by one of the nuns and dated November 1943, had an appendix with the names of 24 people, including Jews, who were hidden by the sisters of the cloistered convent, located near the Colosseum.
Nazi soldiers began rounding up thousands of Jews in Rome and shipping them to death camps in October 1943. One of the accusations against Pope Pius XII, repeated in a number of books in recent years, was that he did little or nothing to stop the deportations.
Jesuit Father Peter Gumpel, the "relator" or investigating judge of the sainthood cause of Pope Pius, found the document and spoke about it with Vatican Radio March 4. He said it was an important written confirmation of the many oral reports of Pope Pius' concern for the Jews and his unpublicized efforts to help them.
"The saving efforts of Pius XII, which have also been verified by many Jewish sources, were carried out through personal messengers—priests—who were sent to various Catholic institutions and houses here in Rome," Father Gumpel said.
The message delivered by these emissaries, Father Gumpel said, was "always the same: 'Open your doors to everyone persecuted by the Nazis,' which naturally applied in the first place to Jews."
Historians have documented the fact that many Jews found refuge in Rome's convents, monasteries and seminaries, and even in the papal villa outside Rome at Castel Gandolfo.
Father Gumpel said Pope Pius and his aides were careful not to issue written orders because it would only provoke repercussions if they fell into the hands of Nazi occupation forces in Rome. The discovery of the note written by the Augustinian nuns is important, he said.
"It is an additional confirmation that could be useful in regard to those who persistently want to denigrate Pius XII and thus attack the Catholic Church," he said.
Father Gumpel said he hoped the note could also help advance Pope Pius' beatification, a major step toward sainthood. The declaration of "heroic virtues" needed for his beatification was approved unanimously by the Congregation for Saints' Causes in 2007, but Pope Benedict XVI later ordered further study of the cause and its implications for Catholic-Jewish dialogue.
"We are still awaiting the signing of the decree by his holiness," Father Gumpel said.
While the matter remains under examination, the Vatican has asked both supporters and opponents of the sainthood cause to stop pressuring Pope Benedict about the issue.
"That is the subject of study and reflection on (the pope's) part, and in this situation it is not appropriate to exercise pressure on him in one direction or the other," Jesuit Father Federico Lombardi, the Vatican spokesman, said in October.
In 1958 The Jewish Post of Winnipeg asserted That no one did more "to help the Jews in their hour of greatest tragedy during the Nazi occupation of Europe, than the late Pope.
On Christmas day in 1942, The New York Times called the Pope "a lonely voice crying out of the silence of a continent.
In January 1940, Boston's Jewish Advocate stated: "The Vatican Radio this week broadcast an outspoken denunciation of German atrocities and persecution in Nazi occupied Poland, declaring they affronted the moral conscience of mankind." The broadcast gave details of atrocities committed not just against Catholics, but against Jews also.
In August 1942 The Times reported that Pius was working to save the Jews in Vichy, France. In response to this the California Jewish Voice, called the Pope a spiritual ally.
When Pius did protest against the Nazis, Nazis in Rome began looking for hidden Jews in Churches and bombed Castel Gandolfo.
Never employ a muslim in your
Never employ a muslim in your work place. They will use religion as shield for not carrying out their job will pollute the environment and bring down productivity.
http://www.daily.pk/world/europe/10080-i-was-victimised-claims-muslim-gp...
The formidable PR machine of
The formidable PR machine of the Roman Catholic Church ensures that there are enough lies going around so that its "holy" status remains intact among its followers, most of them unaware of its bloody deeds. It is a fact that the Catholics ran their own concentration camps parallel to those run by Nazis. After the collapse of Yugoslavia in 1941, the Nazis installed a puppet regime in Croatia, headed by Ante Pavelic, a terrorist who lead the clero-fascist Ustasha movement. The objective of the Ustasha movement was to kill all Serbs, Jews and Gypsies and to convert as many Orthodox Slavs as they could into Roman Christianity.
On May 25, 1941, in an article in a Catholic Action publication entitled "Why are the Jews Being Persecuted", Priest Franjo Kralik justifies the persecution on religious grounds:
"The descendants of those who hated Jesus, who condemned him to death, who crucified him and immediately persecuted his pupils, are guilty of greater excesses that those of their forefathers .... Satan helped them invent Socialism and Communism .... The movement for freeing the world from the Jews is a movement for the renaissance of human dignity. The Almighty and All-wise God is behind this movement."
Whereas part of the horror of the Nazi genocide lay in its dispassionate application of the principles of mass production and efficiency to the business of murder, the Ustasha genocide was far more primitive and personal, characterized by a sadistic personal enjoyment of torture and revenge that harkened back to the very worst excesses of the Dark Ages.
"Mass executions were common where the victims had their throats slit, were sometimes quartered, and also now and then hung in butcher shops with the sign: 'human flesh.' Cruelties occurred along side of which the deeds of the German thugs of the KZ paled by comparison. The Ustasha loved games of torture with nightly orgies; they stuck burning nails under fingernails, poured salt into open wounds, cut off all possible body parts and determined by noble competition who was best at cutting throats. They burned churches full of people, impaled children in Vlasenika and Kladany, preferred to cut off noses and ears and poked out eyes."
The primary targets of this liquidation effort were the educated classes, anyone whom the Ustasha believed likely to retain a separate Serbian culture or identity. For the peasantry there was sometimes the mercy of forced re-baptism, which was conducted en masse throughout the countryside. Despite occasional quibbles about the details of the forced conversions, the church in general, both the Croatian clergy and the Vatican, welcomed the conversions as a victory for Catholicism.
From the link below -
http://www.isracast.com/article.aspx?ID=544
WHO WOULD DARE TO ALTER OR
WHO WOULD DARE TO ALTER OR MODERNISE THE WORD OF ALLAH? It is Impossible.
# 41.-- A --Says: "" The
# 41.-- A --Says:
"" The formidable PR machine of the Roman Catholic Church ensures that there are enough lies going around so that its “holy” status remains intact among its followers, most of them unaware of its bloody deeds. It is a fact that the Catholics ran their own concentration camps parallel to those run by Nazis. After the collapse of Yugoslavia in 1941,""
My dear friend you must know; Islam is nothing but a bad copy of Christianity. Deception of Christianity is same as Taquiya of Islam. As both the evil cults share the same root.