About us

My Dear Ali Sina;

Let me start with the following lines which you have written--

""Faith Freedom stands for freedom of faith. We are against Hate, not Faith. We revere human rights not human beliefs. We endeavor to be factually correct, not politically correct.""

Great statement!!! Yes Human rights have to be revered and not the Beliefs ( Blind beliefs as believers are mostly blind) When one comes to know : then one can have trust not belief. You don't believe the Sun will rise tomorrow; you trust, you trust out of your own experience and knowledge.

Belief systems force people to believe blindly in God, Allah, Hell and heaven. Present day world we have only two such vile belief systems. Evil Islam and vile Christianity. Both the cults believe in converting people for political gains only. Since their inception they have remained responsible for all the wars, destructions of civilizations and innocent intelligent peoples.

Since the inception of Vile Christianity all the wars, mass killings and destructions of great civilizations has been caused by these two vile killing Cults called Islam and Christianity only. I doubt if you or any one else can prove some other belief systems or Cults have caused more harm to the mankind than these two vile Cults? I don't hate either as I don't love either. I am sure you know Islam has it's roots in Christianity , so how can you destroy Islam without destroying it's roots which is Christianity??

Freedomfighter67 - your turn now.

I just recently found this site, and want to congratulate Ali Sina for courage, decency and intelligence. I am one of the strangely few leftists opposed to the theocratic fascism of Islam and its oppressive and murderous precepts, and I applaud your focus on the ideology of Islam, rather than on Muslims. Of course any one of the 5.5 billion non-Muslims in the world could have been raised under Muhammad's ideology given the vagaries of chance, and Muslims as a group are as inherently decent and intelligent as any random group of people.

If I may, I want to briefly answer the comment of 'AooooZ' above. Islam currently preaches the execution of the following of our fellow citizens: apostates, married adulterers, homosexuals, atheists, and blasphemers. The numbers of victims implicated in these teachings total upwards of 1 billion people. Islam also preaches world conquest, and ultimately the killing of all Jews. There is NO other religion which teaches these things. In fact, no religion other than Islam currently preaches the execution of anyone. Clearly, we can never have world peace until Islam is disbanded.

You write that "Islam has it’s roots in Christianity" and say we would need to destroy Christian teachings in order to destroy Islamic teachings. This doesn't follow. You might as well say that to destroy David Koresh's religion, you would have to destroy Christianity.

The religion of Islam is in fact derived from Muhammad's Qur'an, and the Sunnah - the sayings and actions of Muhammad. Muhammad's Qur'an explicitly reviles Christian beliefs, and Christians, as blasphemous. Clearly, Islam is extremely different from Christianity. The only link is that Muhammad sought to co-opt the popular religious traditions of his time, and so pretended that he was the greatest of the biblical prophets - with the inference that the rest of the people of his world should bow down before him, and hand over their lands and treasures.

Finally, I want to address your belief that "all the wars, mass killings and destructions of great civilizations has been caused by these two vile killing Cults called Islam and Christianity only". Hitler's ideology, and that of Stalin and Mao and Hirohito and Pol Pot were not derived from Islam or Christianity. Although I agree with you that we should promote atheism among the peoples of the world, we can't replace their religious beliefs with blind faith in anything else, or anyone else. Blind, uncritical faith in anything is the most dangerous mindset of all.

A Great Initiative.This site explains all about Islam without any censorships imposed by Muslims.I Hope all Muslims must awake on this reality that Islam is a terrorist Cult and Medieval Bigotry.

I condemn Other Cults who teaches HATE against Humanity,Bigotry be it whatever Religion they are part of.

Regarding Islam and Muslims ,It is very tough to convince a average muslima to leave Islam.this is because ,Muslims are since themselves separated from Main Society of Any Country ,those Who leaves Islam faces issues to leave their culture(which is in my humble opinion nothing wrong about it).Another thing is ,Islam somehow is a cult which patches itself to defend its barbaric Ideology.the Best Example is How Muslims silence those who open the folly of koran and Islam.
In countries like Pakistan ,most of the muslims are living in denial and accuses everything with Zionist/christian/Hindu Conspiracy.

Let Islam be erased from this Planet like Nazism was.the first step is to eliminate saudi arabia's Wahaabi/Salafi Terrorist Influence imposed on worldwide Muslims.Arabization and vandalisation of Better Cultures also must be dealt with.
regards,
daivarajyam.

religion is something both personal and a matter of personal belief. what is the motive that drives people like you to air so publicly your personal beliefs at the detriment and ridicule of other’s faith, I ask?

i think that Mr. Ali Sina has started this website to make a quick buck. i know that Islam has lost its way for a while now but it was not always so. show me examples of atrocities committed on the same scale as what the Christians have ever done - just in the last century in Europe over a 100 million people were killed.

if your website was railing against Christianity or religions as a whole as you are wont to do against Islam i could understand your atheism.

btw, your claim of MILLIONS of muslims leaving Islam are laughable - show some real census data please? in my experience it has been the other way around - i have seen many, many converts to Islam.

i notice one thing over and over that many of the apostates from Islam seem to be Iranian; perhaps these were well to do non-religious families before Khomeini and aligned with the despotic, murderous, oppressive Shah. therefore they equate Islam and Khomeini and thus their unbridled hatred for all things Islamic.

Mr. Sina does nothing for his cause by cherry picking bits and pieces of the Quran and Hadith to further his cause. be brave, step forward and do a real debate with a real scholar and i would be more than impressed. Mr. Sina clearly doesn't know arabic nor does he have any real knowledge but he can easily mislead the waverers and those not of sound thinking capabilities.

your website, books, etc. are like screaming in a hurricane - no one can hear you nor can they hear Ibn Warraqa, Rushdie, etc. in a few decades you and your website will be forgotten while Islam will continue to be.

Hi Saif, I can't speak for Ali Sina, but on Al-Jazeera TV (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5COVkGIB9f4) Sheikh Ahmad Al-Katani stated that Islam is losing 6 million Muslims in Africa per year (see from the 3 min 10 sec mark). Also, at http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Religion/?id=1.0.1988866222 it is reported that Iran is considering killing apostates because a million Iranians have left Islam in the past few years.

Clearly, Islam is slowing disbanding. There are 5.38 BILLION NON-Muslims & 1.34 billion Muslims, and as Muslims mix more with Western peoples, Muslims learn more about Islam (because Westerners aren't as afraid to be critical). Muslims are of course as inherently decent and intelligent as any other random group of people, and when they know that Islam is inherently violent, and that according to Islam's own texts Muhammad was one of the worst criminals to have ever lived, they won't stand for it.

Of course it's difficult to leave a religion when it seems part of your identity, but modern Muslims are certainly *not* responsible for inventing Islam's vile teachings. Religions really only belong to the people who invent them, and most people are raised in a religion without free choice, and without full knowledge of all of a religion's teachings.

It is demonstrably true that Islam *explicitly* preaches violence against others, and as such Islam remains a ticking time-bomb for anyone devout enough to want to follow these teachings.

Sorry that the url above for the youtube clip somehow included the bracket - it should be http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5COVkGIB9f4

jtw, perhaps you are right but i say so what? suppose 10 million leave every year but how many are converting and being born into the faith? this is totally ignored. let me give you an example, last year we had a caucasian convert to Islam in that process his daughter, son and sister also converted. later a female friend of his wife also converted. this man had been a soldier who had served in Iraq so he had first hand experience with muslims - maybe he was just killing them i don't know. i asked him about his journey to Islam and he told me he had studied them all, Christianity, Judaism, even considered atheism but only Islam made sense to him. no matter what you accomplish there will always be Islam even if a single muslim lives somewhere on earth. in my nearly 50 years i have seen maybe 5-6 people leave Islam while i have seen nearly ten times that number convert. perhaps some leave in secret.

i do agree that people who have left Islam should be left alone as religion and faith are very personal issues. also, Islam doesn't need them anyhow.

you can rant and rave about the injustice in Islam but you ignore 1,500 years of history. what about the centuries where Islam gave protection to Jews from the Christians and when they co-existed together peacefully. if Islam really taught as you suggest then they would have been slaughtered out of hand.

btw, i would like to thank the Apostates, Ali Sina, Ibn Warraqah, etc. why? because i was beginning to question my faith and their blatant hate of Islam and Muslims made me become stronger in my beliefs because it made me renew my exploration on Islam and the life of the prophet. i especially enjoyed reading the debates in which Ali Sina took part and was thoroughly mastered and i plan on showing many of my muslim friends these websites.

Ali Sina, etc. will never be convinced no matter what is shown to him and he will never be able to really make any real impact except with muslims who have as he says a "brittle" Islam such as himself and others like you.

My point is that Muslims will *necessarily* leave Muhammad's religion as they come to know more about it, because they are normal human beings, and Islam is inherently anti-human because it was invented by a man who was a criminal - even by the primitive morality of his day. Most people are raised in a religion without studying its texts, and Muslims are no different. I studied the Qur'an and books of hadith at university, and for several years since, but I've never met a Muslim who has.

Of course this is not because Muslims are not naturally studious, but simply because religious people take it for granted that the religion they happened to be raised with is wonderful, 100% perfect, etc.

I'm glad you think apostates should be left alone – unfortunately Islam still preaches that these of our fellow citizens should be executed. This is due to Muhammad's example - reported in hadiths (capitals are mine) such as

Bukhari Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:
Narrated 'Ikrima:
Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'WHOEVER CHANGED HIS ISLAMIC RELIGION, THEN KILL HIM.'"

and Volume 9, Book 83, Number 17:
Narrated 'Abdullah:
Allah's Apostle said, "THE BLOOD OF A MUSLIM who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, CANNOT BE SHED EXCEPT in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and THE ONE WHO REVERTS FROM iSLAM (apostate) and leaves the Muslims”.

The Islamic scholar Dr.Zakir Naik explains the current Islamic thinking behind executing apostates at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMAZR8YIhxI&feature=channel_page

I think it's unfair of you to characterize people who have left Islam as having a “blatant hate” of Muslims. Perhaps the only way you can imagine that someone would leave Muhammad's religion is if they are seriously unbalanced to the extent of “hating” more than a billion people. However, to suggest that the millions who leave each year are full of hatred is not credible. You should ask yourself about the hate at the heart of a man who would invent his own religion which calls for people who leave to be executed.

I came across a very intelligently made youtube clip just yesterday by an ex-Muslim (and teacher at an Islamic school) who only left because he can't believe in “Allah” any more – he doesn't even know enough about Islam to be disgusted by its teachings. See his clip at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El4KxBWRol0

Also, please see the Council of Ex-Muslims website forum at http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/ where you can meet and chat to some ordinary ex-Muslims.

Another point - you seem to question the Islamic teaching on the Jews. Muhammad heaped abuse on the Jews because when he began his religion, it was often Jewish tribes who stood against his warriors, and whose lands and other goods he wanted to steal, and whose women and children he wanted to rape and enslave (according to Islam’s own texts). So Muhammad thought up justifications for his enslavements, rapes, and thefts, which he put into his Qur'an. He also wrote about his hatred of the Jews, and called for them to be fought. For example (capitals are mine):

5.51
O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.

98.6
Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). THEY ARE THE WORST OF CREATURES.

9.29
FIGHT THOSE who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and HIS MESSENGER have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out OF THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE Book, UNTIL THEY PAY THE TAX in acknowledgment of superiority AND THEY ARE IN A STATE OF SUBJECTION.

5.82
Thou wilt find THE MOST VEHEMENT OF MANKIND IN HOSTILITY to those who believe (to be) THE JEWS and the idolaters...

4.160
For the WICKEDNESS OF THE JEWS We made unlawful for them certain (foods) good and wholesome which had been lawful for them;- in that they hindered many from Allah's Way

Islam also teaches that all Jews must be executed before “Judgement Day” can arrive. This teaching derives principally from the hadith of Sahih Muslim

Book 41, Number 6985:
Abu Huraira reported ALLAH'S MESSENGER (may peace be upon him) as saying: "Judgment day will not come until the Muslims fight the Jews, and the MUSLIMS KILL THE JEWS, and then the Jews will hide behind stones and trees, and Allah will make the stones and trees speak, saying: 'Oh Muslim, the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him', except for the Gharqad tree, which is the tree of the Jews." Since the Jews believe the Prophet Muhammad, they have planted Gharqad trees throughout Palestine.'

(Note that 'Palestine' is the name the conquering Romans gave to the part of the Jews' land known as Judea - so this hadith has Jews planting a certain kind of tree sympathetic to them throughout their own land, so as not to be betrayed by trees when Muhammad's invaders entered and undertook their planned holocaust.)

Muhammad's call for Jews to be murdered is still parroted today. For example, please see a UAE University professor explain that Jews need to be killed in accordance with these Islamic teachings at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9BOPR3yhY4&feature=PlayList&p=4E04F2608F...

Sheikh Al-Samarai ditto at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFAkmsszTD8&feature=channel_page

Children on Egyptian TV echo these disgusting teachings at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vtt8V25lGmc&feature=related

And Egyptian Cleric Al-Ansari earlier this year called for another Holocaust due to Muhammad's teachings. See:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWqibeUn8mU&feature=channel_page

Naturally there are hundreds of other examples. I'm surprised you're not familiar with them, but I trust you are as disgusted with them as if they were teachings calling for the execution of all Muslims. All decent people need to publicly disparage and reject Muhammad's hateful and violent teachings.

I'm happy to accept your claim that Muslims have been kind to Jews at times, because of course Muslims are normal decent people. But bad teachings can corrupt even the best of people. No one of any other religion (or atheists) has *ever* been given equal human rights under an Islamic State. Dr. Zakir Naik explains why even today non-Muslims do not deserve equal rights at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jYUL7eBdHg&feature=channel_page

hei Jtw,

Do you think you are smart..?

The answer is "NO.."

Maybe you have a lot to read but please read the Qur'an correctly .. and read in accordance with the basic history, not only of fragments of verse, so you'll know about the situation when the verse was revealed.

Hi. I have to say that you misunderstand the purpose of the Qur'an. It is not meant to be a collection of judgements that only applied to the daily issues which arose for Muhammad. It is meant to be a book dictated by a “god” with its teachings applicable for ALL people, for ALL time, with values which are – sadly - meant to apply *today*, and continue to cause much violence and suffering.

However, you are correct that we need to read the history of *how* verses of Muhammad's book came to be invented, because the history will help us all *reject* Muhammad's claim of divine inspiration, and instead see Muhammad's own hand in the invention. Fortunately, Islamic texts supply us with many examples.

To begin with, consider how the verses in the Qur'an promoting the RAPE of women came to be invented. The title of a chapter from book 8 of the Hadith of Sahih Muslim deals specifically with raping women, and tells how the verse of Muhammad's Qur'an allowing rape came to be "revealed" (capitals are mine).

Book 8, Chapter 29: It is permissible to have SEXUAL INTERCOURSE WITH A CAPTIVE WOMAN after she is purified (of menses or delivery). IN CASE SHE HAS A HUSBAND, HER MARRIAGE IS ABROGATED AFTER SHE BECOMES CAPTIVE

Book 8, Hadith Number 3432:
...Allah's Messenger (may pbuh) sent an army to Autas and encountered the enemy and fought with them. Having overcome them and taken them captives, the Companions of Allah's Messenger (may pbuh) seemed to REFRAIN FROM HAVING INTERCOURSE WITH THE CAPTIVE WOMEN because of THEIR HUSBANDS being polytheists.
THEN Allah, Most High, sent down regarding that: Qur'an 4.24
"And ALL MARRIED WOMEN (ARE FORBIDDEN unto you) EXCEPT THOSE (CAPTIVES) whom your right hands possess. IT IS A DECREE OF ALLAH FOR YOU."

So Muhammad's men were actually reluctant to rape the women, until Muhammad thought up a convenient decree to force them. Muhammad clearly wanted the non-Muslim women to be raped, as he felt this was a good way of spreading his religious dominance, and destroying these rival tribes - and of course he was right. (This technique is still being used in Sudan.)

Muhammad also revealed a verse in which "Allah" supposedly granted Muhammad special privileges for having sex with more women that other Muslims, and again allows the raping of women - who Allah supposedly refers to as the "spoils of war"! Would a real God ever refer to innocent women as “spoils of war”, or is that what an ordinary human rapist would say?

Qur'an 33.50
"O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those [captives] whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as SPOILS OF WAR, and the daughters of thine uncle on the father's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the father's side, and the daughters of thine uncle on the mother's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the mother's side who emigrated with thee, and a believing woman if she give herself unto the Prophet and the Prophet desire to ask her in marriage A PRIVILEGE FOR THEE ONLY, not for the (rest of) believers - We are Aware of that which We enjoined upon them concerning their wives and those [captives] whom their right hands possess - that THOU MAYST BE FREE FROM BLAME, for Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful."

Notice that Muhammad has “Allah” say "thou mayst be free from BLAME" i.e. to excuse his rapes and those of his army – rapes which he knew were considered immoral in his time. Why else would a “God” even consider that anything he was instructing men to do could be considered blameworthy? Note also that “Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful” - to the rapists, NOT the rape-victims! It would be funny if it weren't so tragic.

What would your reaction be if NON-Muslim "spiritual" leaders taught that “God” said that captive MUSLIM women were "SPOILS OF WAR", and that the raping of MARRIED captive MUSLIM WOMEN was "A DECREE OF GOD FOR YOU"? I'm sure you see how outrageously criminal this is.

jtw, I have gained much more depth of insight about Islam thanks to your posts, thank you + compliments.

Hi JTW..

Hmmm..... let me guess ...
Are JTW is the Pseudonym name of "Ali Sina" ? No ? So maybe it just my feeling.
It seem that Ali Sina never show up him self, and it's better pretend to be someone else :)

If we want to judge Quran, we must know and learn about the content as a whole. Eventhough you're Arabic native, you cannot learn just by reading it and make conclusion as we do when we read comics ( Just like "think himself" new late born hero here : AliSina ).

Quran and Islam purpose is to bring better morals in human being. Quran consist all aspect of life. There are about Faith, Sosialism, Morals, History etc. And what you're talking above is about History. As Quran given in Arabic, and when we talk about history, we cannot separate it with the Arab's culture at that time.

What you said above is usual in the past of arab's culture before Islam. When we want to give a new paradigm to a person or society, we can't force them to eat all at once. You'll get high resistance for that. So Islam change it litle by litle till the Arabian can accept it. As you know also, Qoran is given verse by verse not in a bundle.

So the point is when you make a conclusion, you must see the context. When, why, how, the action is needed. As in simple case about Khamr ( drunk things). At the beginning Islam, Arabian may drink Khamr. But in later time after the verse is given, Khamr is now forbidden coz it contain more negatif things in it. That's how Islam Islam change the society to a better one.

Again.. and again.. you can't make conclusion just by commenting a verse. That really naive. So my suggestion is, Let's study history again, and learn Quran again. Don't forget to remove hatred in your heart first, so you can get the truth in it. Coz, it will be useless if you just read the quran just to find the word that much your opinion.

And while you learning hard about Islam, I suggest you to truly learn about christian religion if you are a christian. Ask your self who is Jesus really are ? why there are 3 gods ? is he really sacriface himself or murdered ? if he sacrifaced himself why he regret by saying "God why you leave me" before his death (in christian version) ? did Jesus really born in 25th december ? how the story it's became and declare as Jesus birth ?

What is the roman god before Jesus ? is it the "SUN GOD" ? is there a politics scenario to make the Jesus birth the same with the "Sun God" so it can be accepted by roman emperor ? Who is PAUS ?
Do you know anything about "darkness era" in europe ? what is it ? How the church collect money by becaming "God" and release the letter if mercy ? That why Protestant born isn't ? Which one is the real one ? How came a true/pure religion has many "Holy book Bibels" with many adjustment ? who made the adjustment ? is he a god or what ? if not can it be trusted ? what about the "saint cross war" ? have you heard abut it ? Do you know why and since when "New Era" begin and enlight europe ? do you know how the "science book and literature" were brought to europe and burn in moslem country like Turk and Spain (cordova)?

If you can answer this .. you can see better. You should know what is the truth and what's a fake.

" 'Alaikum.... "

Thanks Demsci for the generous words. Hi Abdullah, let me briefly correct you. I'm not Ali Sina, I'm not a Christian (I'm an atheist), and I don't have “hatred in (my) heart”. Focusing on conspiracies or claiming insincerity or hatred in non-Muslims is your way of diverting attention from the issues at hand. We must keep an open mind if we are to progress, and we must analyse the facts at hand.

You say that “Quran and Islam purpose is to bring better morals in human being” - so we need to examine if that claim is true. I've already given verses which call for non-Muslims to be fought until they are in a state of subjection, verses which call for hatred of other religious people, verses which call for captive women to be raped, and hadiths which call for the execution of apostates and the killing of all Jews (and I've tried to keep my posts short!). Are these verses bringing "better morals"? Think how these teachings still cause such suffering in the modern day (e.g. the Taliban think it's good to kill moderate Muslims, because they see them as “apostates”).

You see, according to *Islam's own texts*, Muhammad was a murderer, a rapist, an enslaver of innocent people, a torturer of people he knew to be innocent, a paedophile, and a thief. I can't think of a significant crime Muhammad didn't revel in.

Given these facts, why do you trust Muhammad's claim of divine inspiration? Think about why you don't believe in prophets after Muhammad – Joseph Smith (the Mormons) L.Ron Hubbard (Scientology) or David Koresh (Branch Davidians). Is it just because you weren't raised in these religions that you think they're fake, or can you see that men invent religions throughout history to suit their self-interests?

In fact, most self-proclaimed “prophets” start their own religions for power, status, wealth, and lots of sex, and Muhammad was as voracious in these regards as anyone in history.

Think about how Muhammad used his Qur'an to say that he could rape women, that he could “marry” more women than other Muslims, that he would be free to “marry” his adopted son's own wife (33.4), that he didn't have to have sex with his various “wives” in turn (33.51), that he could have sex with a woman in whichever position he chose (2.223), that “the spoils of war belong...to The Messenger [Muhammad]”(8.1), and even that his dinner guests shouldn't bother him (33.53)! (And I haven't begun to mention the hadiths – e.g. Sahih Muslim, Book 19, # 4363 where Muhammad claimed that Allah had given him the entire Earth!)

Are these the writings of a God – applicable for everyone, in every country, for all time? If you think objectively and dispassionately about it, you will see the truth.

Hi, JTW..

so.. you're an atheist?

I happen to frequent discussions with atheists

may I know why you chose to become an atheist?

why do you not believe in the existence of god?

if you are so pessimistic with religious Muslims, why you do not choose another religion such as Christian, Buddhist or something else?

is there something wrong with other religions (Christian, Buddhist or otherwise) that you choose to become an atheist?

if there was something odd about other religions, can you tell me where all the strangeness of other religions ..?

I believe, if you are an atheist of course you know the peculiarities of all existing religions ..., because if you do not find the irregularities .. surely there is no reason for you to become an atheist right?

I'll wait for the best possible explanation of your, okay

Best Regards
Dayat

Surah Al-Kafiroun
“The Unbelievers”

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Surah Al-Kafiroun is about an incident when some infidels to enter into dialogue with the Prophet in order to drop him to the Muslims back into his old habits of idolatry. They propose to worship God for one year, following the teachings of the Prophet, and the next year they all, including the Prophet and the Muslims, worship the idols of their traditional. Thus they will be changing worship practices until one true way to one side. So, according to the infidel way of thinking, if the true teachings of the Prophet, they would benefit from following the teachings of the Prophet; but, if the true infidels, then they and the Muslims would benefit from idols to worship. This Surah is the answer to those who believe and believe in those who do not believe.

قُلْ يَا أَيُّهَا الْكَافِرُونَ

1. Say: O people who deny the truth

لَا أَعْبُدُ مَا تَعْبُدُونَ

2. I do not worship what you worship,

This is an expression of affirmation from the believer, who believes that he will receive and feel the grace of the Almighty Creator. Therefore, he told the Gentiles, 'I do not worship what you worship. \ People who believe, in fact, worship inner direct food source, which keep the survivors from the darkness that surrounds people and that gives it light and enlightenment. The source adds his faith through 'ubudiyah (worship) him and protect him from all dangers. Worship makes way mu'abbad (easy, smooth, no resistance). In his humility he was getting closer and closer to the fountain.

وَلَا أَنتُمْ عَابِدُونَ مَا أَعْبُدُ

3. And you do not worship what I worship.

In other words: You do not have a path to a source who I worship, because you do not worship the subtle energy that radiates all the properties

وَلَا أَنَا عَابِدٌ مَّا عَبَدتُّمْ

4. And I will not worship what you worship,

Will never, and never could, once enlightened, when opened, after knowing Allah, honor or worship what you worship.

وَلَا أَنتُمْ عَابِدُونَ مَا أَعْبُدُ

5. And you will not worship what I worship.

In the future, nor will you ever worship what I worship the truth. This is a prophecy that shows that people are in disbelief will remain in disbelief. There are people who have been created as the fuel of hell, as repeatedly said in the Qur'an, and this fact can not be changed. They will remain so even though we asked that they not do so, despite all efforts made to draw them into the \din\ light.

لَكُمْ دِينُكُمْ وَلِيَ دِينِ

6. For you your religion and for me my religion!

People who believe in the perfect equanimity, and people who know that everything is in the hands of Allah concluded, 'You have your way, the way you choose to replenish yourself and interact with others, with whatever form you think is the absolute , and I have my own way! \ Then those who believe and believes firmly holding hands following the methods that have perfected the model of Muhammad. They are not lit from outside, their light comes from within. They walked along the sea shore light, and the beach there are limits. This is the way of the believers, roads perfect faith.

الله أكبر

Hi Dayat, I'm not pessimistic about religious Muslims. Muslims are ordinary decent and intelligent fellow human beings, and I genuinely believe that when they know the truth about Muhammad, and his religion, they will turn their backs in disgust. It is no fault of theirs to be raised with Muhammad's religion – it could just as well have been me, or any other non-Muslim.

Certainly all religions have their faults, and this derives from most of them being invented by primitive peoples with primitive morals and a primitive understanding of the world. Some religions (such as Christianity and Judaism) have done much to try to improve their treatment of others – for example some sects can now appoint homosexuals as church leaders – and they sometimes also do much good for the disadvantaged in society. However, improvements are still necessary.

Islam is a special case, because there is no religion other than Islam which currently preaches the execution of our fellow citizens. The victims implied by current Islamic teachings number upward of one billion of our fellow citizens. (This is *not* the fault of Muslims, as they had no more hand in inventing these teachings than I did.) But this is why we can never have peace in the world while Muhammad's ideology is still followed.

Regarding atheism, the “God” hypothesis is patently absurd, and ALL religious people in the world are like me - atheists about every “god” - except the one they got raised with. Think about why you're an atheist with regard to gods such as Zeus, Thor, Neptune etc. Now you know why I'm an atheist. There is no choice in the matter, it's impossible to believe in the absurd.

I recommend for you 3 videos recently made by an ex-Muslim school-teacher. One is entitled 'Life's a Test' at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El4KxBWRol0 one entitled 'Why is Kufr a Crime?' at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey5Jwz2NPEs&feature=channel

and one I particularly like entitled 'In the name of the Merciful, the Compassionate' at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvbJoLd4evk&feature=channel_page
Best wishes

Hi JTW,

I believe you are a very intelligent person .. but I really hope that we use our intelligence is not to discuss something much more intelligent than us. because actually we will not be able to. I've wondered about the truth of a religion, find out about God .. until I had often read the scriptures, but maybe I have a plot that may differ with you, I realized that I have limits on the ability to think .. i can't just rely on my brain..

I am not always able to answer the math problem correctly, I was often wrong, I was still so stupid, then why I should trust my brain that this stupid? ( i believe you are smarter than me :) )

when I saw "Jesus", "Buddha", "Zeus", "Thor", "Neptune" or the other god, I laughed .. very strange if I could imagine the shape and form of God, and I'm afraid .. with my ability to fantasize .. then I can just imagine the odd strange about God .. as long as is illustrated on the movies, the story of Zeus who is related to women and have a child named Hercules .. hahaha .. ( just kidding ). But unlike "Allah", the Muslim God, I could never imagine the shape, I could never imagine the material .. This is ONE REASON why I became a Muslim.

try to imagine this.. if we create a "thing" in this world, is it possible that "thing" have a perfect theory about us? and is it possible that "thing" can know what we think?

So if we want to search for the truth, start by knowing the composition of our own self, first realize that we only have a limited creature in thinking .. even we may not necessarily be able to compete with other human beings.. we not only have the sense, but we also have a heart, this heart sometimes more honest than our logic.

No wonder that the Prophet Muhammad said, "Remember in the human body there is a piece of meat, when that meat is good, then the whole body will also be good, but if that meat is corrupt, then the whole body will be damaged, that meat is heart."
[HR, Bukhari, Muslim]

Reading your experience which is often learn a particular religious faith, I am sure that in your heart there is still opportunity in finding the truth. Truth about the existence of Allah figure. but please, try to understand it with different path. okay?

Think about what has been created by god, but do not even think what was the substance of god, and what the mind of god, because "once again" we MUST NOT be able to

Contrary to your understanding, in my opinion, world peace will only be achieved if all the people in this world really implement what has been delivered by the prophet muhammad and the Qur'an. And frankly I do not understand why you are so fed up with the prophet muhammad, but really, he was the most precious man in this world.

I actually was able to argue with your remarks above about the Prophet Muhammad, but whether it can affect you? and whether to make you take back your words are .. certainly never easy .. My advice is, Please try to study more.. and plase.... never stop to study

for example:

why did muhammad have wife (Khadijah bt. Khuwailid al-Asadiyah r.a, Saudah bt. Zam'ah al-Amiriyah al Quraisiyah r.a etc) who was older than him if he was a phedopile? why?

if the prophet muhammad more sexually oriented, and if the prophet muhammad is more oriented to the little girl, why the Prophet Muhammad ordered the women to wear the hijab? why not using bikini? why did the prophet muhammad married a woman (Saudah bt. Zam'ah al-Amiriyah al Quraisiyah r.a) who was 65 years old, who had no sexual desire?? why?

do you know that Umar Bin Khatab son (companions of the Prophet Muhammad) was punished for rape?

have you ever heard that the prophet muhammad kill a person except in a state of war?

if you've found the answers, just keep it okay.. no need to respond, because the answer to that question is my special gift to you.. and I hope that these gifts can be very useful for you .. especially in this holy month of ramadhan, may our worship charity accepted by Allah SWT, Amin

actually so many other things that I want to say .. but sorry this time I was very busy, sorry if I offend people who read my post, I did not intend to insult or hurt the feelings of the people

Best Regards
Dayat

Hi Dayat, sorry for the delay in responding (work commitments!). You have intelligence, and must *never* abrogate responsibility in using it. When we stop using our brains, any kind of terrorist ideology can fill the void. Now, just because you can't visualise a “god”, doesn't make it more likely that this particular “god” exists. Your failure in imagination is not a case to say that an imaginary being exists.

You say that world peace can only come through Muhammad and his Qur'an, but I've already given a verse (9.29) where Muhammad calls for all non-Muslims to be FOUGHT until they are in a state of subjection. Imagine a Christian teaching calling for all MUSLIMS to be fought until MUSLIMS are in a state of subjection. I'm sure you agree with me that this verse is the antithesis of peaceful.

Regarding Islam's texts revealing Muhammad to be a paedophile, consider these accepted hadiths (capitals are mine):

Bukhari Vol.7, Book 62, Num. 65.

"Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was SIX YEARS OLD and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)."

According to the hadith of Sahih Bukhari, Muhammad pursued marriage of the 6 yr old Aisha in this way:

Vol 7 Book 62 #18:
"Narrated 'Ursa:

The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "BUT I AM YOUR BROTHER." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, BUT SHE (Aisha) IS LAWFUL FOR ME TO MARRY."

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 15:
Narrated 'Aisha:

Allah's Apostle said (to me), "You have been shown to me twice in (my) dreams. A man was carrying you in a silken cloth and said to me, 'This is your wife.' I uncovered it; and behold, it was you. I said to myself, 'If this dream is from Allah, He will cause it to come true.' "

Muhammad's tastes in pre-pubescent girls is further demonstrated in:

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 16:
Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah:
While we were returning from a Ghazwa (Holy Battle) with the Prophet, I started driving my camel fast...A rider came behind me and pricked my camel with a spear... Behold! The rider was the Prophet himself. He said, 'What makes you in such a hurry?" I replied, I am newly married " He said, "Did you marry a virgin or a matron? I replied, "A matron." He said, "WHY DIDN'T YOU MARRY A YOUNG GIRL so that you may play with her and she with you?" When we were about to enter (Medina), the Prophet said, "Wait so that you may enter (Medina) at night so that the lady of unkempt hair may comb her hair and the one whose husband has been absent MAY SHAVE HER PUBIC REGION."

Now, if you knew of a 54 year-old man pursuing your 6 year-old daughter for “marriage”, what would your opinion be? I have a 7 year-old niece, and I can tell you that if a 54 year-old man began sniffing around her for “marriage”, I would instantly call the police.

So, Islam's texts tell us that Muhammad was a paedophile. However, you say that the fact that he married an older woman ameliorates this. Some bigamists also marry for wealth (Muhammad's first wife) or to do housework and care for the young girl-wives.

Consider that Joseph Smith (founder of the Mormons) also “married” an older woman, as a cover for “marrying” several young girls. Joseph Smith would approach the father of a 14 year-old, and say that “God” had given him the girl in his dreams (in this he copied Muhammad). Then he would “marry” the girl.

I put in “marry” in quotes, because of course the marriages of Smith and Muhammad were only an expression of sexual greed – you can't have a full intimate relationship with a woman if you also have to pay attention to 8 or 9 others. There just aren't enough hours in the day, on top of your own daily work!

Finally, you say that the fact Muhammad covered his harem in the hijab shows some kind of modesty. Actually, Muhammad behaved no differently to modern-day kidnappers and rapists. They put their victims under house-arrest, and cover them in drab clothing so as to keep them as their private property. In Muhammad's case, he also invented a Qur'anic verse to threaten his victims:

33.30
O Consorts of the Prophet! If any of you were guilty of evident unseemly conduct, THE PUNISHMENT WOULD BE DOUBLED TO HER, and that is easy for Allah.

As Aisha said after Muhammad invented his Qur'an verse about being allowed to have sex with his various wives in whatever order he chose (hadith of Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number 311):

"...when Allah revealed (33.51)... I said (to the Prophet), "I feel that your Lord hastens in fulfilling your wishes and desires."

(Btw, next post I'll demonstrate Islamic texts detailing Muhammad's murders and torture of innocent people)

The automated standard reply "you have not read the quran or understood it correctly" never tires appearently.

Just because somebody reads the Quran and does not agree with the view held by others, does not mean, they are wrong or incorrect. In fact the majority of muslims could be wrong too. Afterall when the Quran came to people, majority were deemed ignorant.

It is in fact possible for a group of people to read the same book and come to different conclusions. To suggest that the other is wrong, merely because you don't like their result is arrogant.

It is amazing how many muslims seem occupied with islam critics and such websites. I wish Muslims could divert their focus to every scholar or every Muslims, who disgraces Islam. Just look at the scholars who are condoning and preaching war on non-muslims, civilians, muslim minorities, wifebeating, women being whores if they do not cover, death over ahmadiyya Muslims, women being a piece of meat and sex object, women being satans tool, women being inferior, divorce for women made impossible by sharia councils around the world etc. The list is long. That should be more offensive. That would at least show more credibility. But alas people stay silent and only whine and complain about non-muslims criticizing.

The ammunition is coming from your own rows. Not from outside. Islam critics would have nothing to say or criticize if not information and sources were made available by muslims themselves.

Before you look at the issues within the Muslim community and the Islam preached today, you have no chance or grounds to criticize this or similar websites.

Hi, Jtw

Sorry if you find that our discussion this made your job to be bothered, I really understand about your situation.

Hahaha.. , Jtw you're very funny..
you may not understand what I mean, I never said to not use the brain at all, hahaha, I can not imagine the situation if we not using our brain at all.. :)

Dear Jtw,
what I mean is .. we can use our ability to analyze something, but do not analyze GOD, because we will not be able to.
And as I said before, "But unlike Allah, the Muslim God, I could never imagine the shape, I could never imagine the material .. This is *ONE REASON* (This means one of several) why I became a Muslim". and I was not said that i fail, but i don't have the ability to imagine.

"(9.29) where Muhammad calls for all non-Muslims to be FOUGHT until they are in a state of subjection."

Try to imagine this, if I say "I have to fight against poverty and ignorance". does that mean I have to draw my sword and cut the poverty and ignorance?

And at this sentences "all non-Muslims to be FOUGHT until they are in a state of subjection". does that mean Muslim should be holding a gun and shoot non-Muslims?

and please try to read it right on the sentence ending "until they are in a state of subjection". why not like this "until they are die"..??? but why "until they are in a state of subjection"..?? why??

The sentence is basically explaining that Muslims are asked to preach, to speak the truth about Islam to the people of Non-Muslims, so they can accept the Islamic religion and joined into people who are obedient or subject to the laws of Islam (Become a Muslim).
That is why at the sentence ending mentioned "until they are in a state of subjection".
Do you know what the meaning of the word "Muslim" ..? The word "Muslim" means people who SUBMISSIVE and SUBJECT to the law of Allah.

And to note also that when the Islamic religion first arrived, many parties whose against Islam. that parties use violence to stop preaching the religion islam. and the Muslims must worship in hiding. the Muslims did not have freedom in worship. This is also what makes Muslims in the past had to fight to be recognized and have the freedom of worship.

but there was no coercion on the non-Muslim people to become a Muslim. this can be seen from history, when a governor has displaced the house of a Jew, Umar bin Khatab (one of the best companions of the Prophet muhammad) precisely defend the Jewish people, Umar gave a warning to the governor and ordered the governor to repair the home of Jews. Although Jews are not Muslims. Why?? is this what you mean that Islam teaches Muslims to fight non-Muslims?? and is this what you mean by Muhammad teaches violence??

please to re-read correctly, okay?

you say "you can not have a full intimate relationship with a woman if you also have to pay attention to 8 or 9 others. There just are not enough hours in the day, on top of your own daily work"

why do you describe the marriage as though it was limited only to a sexual relationship?
whether only the sexual relationship are needed in family life??

Did you ever imagine the condition of widows who must meet their needs without a leader in his household (husband)?

In *PRE-ISLAMIC* period, a woman does not have any ownership rights over. Any property that comes to the women is managed by male relatives. And most of the male relatives at that time often allows women to remain unmarried and poor so that their male relatives can control their inheritance.

Prophet muhammad very concerned about the plight of women at that time. Different from the ordinary people, the prophet muhammad marry the widows precisely to provide justice for widows who need a leader and companion in daily life day. that is one reason why the prophet muhammad marry the widows (Saudah bt. Zam’ah al-Amiriyah al Quraisiyah r.a who was 65 years old, who had no sexual desire and also the others).

you say "Some bigamists also marry for wealth (Muhammad’s first wife) or to do housework and care for the young girl-wives."

Prophet's first wife is Khadijah. and, She is a widow and rich. but... Prophet muhammad married Khadijah not because of wealth.
you can see from history that when the prophet muhammad married with Khadijah, the prophet muhammad give dowry to khadijah hundreds of camels. do you know the price of a camel now?? You can calculate your own. prophet muhammad was a very successful entrepreneur before marriage with Khadijah and become a prophet. is it possible prophet muhammad married just because of wealth????

you say "to do housework and care for the young girl-wives."

is that wrong if the wives do housework and care for the young girl-wife and children..?????
I don't understand if you say it wrong,
and how about the husband who worked outside the home to find the money to meet the needs of households living?
is that wrong too?
and if the husband working outside the home to earn money for household necessities, then who is doing housework and take care for children?

discuss this marriage issue .. I really wish I could get married in the near future... :) hahahaha...

Dear JTW,

I'm sorry if I can't give the explanation for all your opinions one by one, I also have my work to be done. as I said before, I really hope to get married soon, hahaha :), so I have to collecting money for my wedding expenses..

and about.. you say "Btw, next post I’ll demonstrate Islamic texts detailing Muhammad’s murders and torture of innocent people"..

my suggest is, if you still find out about the prophet muhammad, try to read as a whole and try to understand the situation at that time. so I hope you understand correctly who the prophet muhammad. Do not focus on bad things. okay my friend?

once again, I hope you are trying to find out about GOD with your heart. not only with your brain.

Best Regards
Dayat

Hi, Jtw,

I'm sorry if I'm wrong in interpreting the word "intimate relationship", I think I was wrong in interpreting .. but I think my opinion is enough to explain why it is not become a problem..

Sorry

Hi again. You say "do not analyze GOD, because we will not be able to." But there is nothing in the Qur'an which is incomprehensible. And what if a violent fraudulent man invents a religion, and pretends that "God" says to kill people? Should we do as he says? Or should we QUESTION his claims to speak for "God"? You see, even though you mean well, your attitude is incredibly dangerous. It is the reason that terrorists don't stop to question Muhammad's teaching about killing apostates, and so they bomb Shia mosques with gladness (not that I'm suggesting that you would do this!!).

There is no teaching of anyone that we shouldn't feel free to question. Deep down you know this, because many people have invented religions (such as Mormonism, Christian Science, the Branch Davidians), which you don't believe are true. Why don't you believe in them? Presumably because you feel free to question them, even though they all claim to be words from "god", and you find them to be false.

So, either you believe you should be free to question claims about "god", or you don't. YOU clearly do (along with other intelligent people) - and yet you refuse to question Muhammad's Islam. This is inconsistency.

Regarding Qur'an 9.29, you'll notice that the non-Muslims are to be fought “UNTIL THEY PAY THE TAX IN ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF SUPERIORITY and they are in a STATE OF SUBJECTION.”

This is not some kind of peaceful harmonious relationship that is being suggested. Please use empathy to imagine if Jews had a verse saying “FIGHT THE MUSLIMS UNTIL THEY PAY A SPECIAL TAX, AND ARE IN A STATE OF SUBJECTION.” Don't tell me you think that would be fine, and conducive to peaceful relations!
People with good intentions don't conquer others and then require them to pay out special taxes.

You claim that the "fighting" referred to might be a peaceful kind of fighting, as in fighting poverty. But people don't pay special taxes unless they're forced to with threats. In any case Muhammad is quite clear about what he means in his Qur'an. For example,
Qur'an 9.111 Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall FIGHT in the way of Allah and SHALL SLAY and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph.

To slay others (and be slain) are the words of a warrior, not a "god", and unequivocally prove that when Muhammad's Qur'an talks of fighting others, he means to kill them or threaten to do so, unless they do what he wants.

Now, let's establish beyond doubt that Islam tells us that Muhammad was a violent and murderous man (I'll try to keep it short).

MUHAMMAD ON EXECUTING APOSTATES (a group which also includes atheists and blasphemers):

Bukhari Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:
Narrated 'Ikrima:
Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, THEN KILL HIM.'"

MUHAMMAD ON EXECUTING HOMOSEXUAL PEOPLE:

Hadith of Sunan Abu-Dawud
Book 38, Number 4447:
Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: “If you find anyone doing as Lot's people did, KILL THE ONE WHO DOES IT, AND THE ONE TO WHOM IT IS DONE.”

Book 38, Number 4448 [continuing from last quote]:
Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas:
If a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy, HE WILL BE STONED TO DEATH.

MUHAMMAD ON KILLING ADULTERERS:

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 83, Number 17:
Narrated 'Abdullah:
Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, A MARRIED PERSON WHO COMMITS ILLEGAL SEXUAL INTERCOURSE and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."

Volume 6, Book 60, Number 79:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin Umar:
...So THE PROPHET ORDERED THE TWO ADULTERERS TO BE STONED TO DEATH, and they were stoned to death near the place where biers used to be placed near the Mosque. I saw her companion (i.e. the adulterer) bowing over her so as to protect her from the stones.

MUHAMMAD ON KILLING INTOXICATED PEOPLE:

Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38, Number 4469:
Narrated AbuHurayrah:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: If he is intoxicated, flog him; again if he is intoxicated, flog him; again if he is intoxicated, flog him if he does it again a fourth time, KILL HIM.

Miscellaneous killings and violence:

Book 38, Number 4429:
Narrated AbuBakrah:
THE PROPHET (peace_be_upon_him) HAD A WOMAN STONED and a pit was dug up to her breasts.

Book 38, Number 4442:
Narrated Al-Bara' ibn Azib:
I met my uncle who was carrying a standard. I asked him: Where are you going? He said: The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) has sent me to a man who has married his father's wife. He has ordered me to CUT OFF HIS HEAD and take his property.

Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 81, Number 792:
Narrated 'Aisha:
THE PROPHET CUT OFF THE HAND OF A LADY, and that lady used to come to me, and I used to convey her message to the Prophet and she repented, and her repentance was sincere.

Volume 6, Book 61, Number 577:
Narrated 'Ali:
I heard the Prophet saying, "In the last days (of the world) there will appear young people with foolish thoughts and ideas. They will give good talks, but they will go out of Islam as an arrow goes out of its game, their faith will not exceed their throats. So, wherever you find them, KILL THEM, for there will be A REWARD FOR THEIR KILLERS on the Day of Resurrection."

From Islam's first Biography of Muhammad by Ibn Ishaq:

"Kinana, the husband of Safiyya, had been guardian of the tribe's treasures, and he was brought before the Apostle, who asked where they were hidden. But Kinana refused to disclose the place... The Apostle of Allah handed him over to al‑Zubayr, saying, 'TORTURE HIM until he tells what he knows', and al‑Zubayr kindled a fire on his chest so that he almost expired; then the Apostle gave him to Muhammad b. Maslama, who STRUCK OFF HIS HEAD."

“The Apostle of Allah imprisoned the Qurayza in Medina while trenches were dug in the market‑place. Then he sent for the men and had THEIR HEADS STRUCK OFF SO THAT THEY FELL IN THE TRENCHES. They were brought out in groups, and among them was Kab, the chief of the tribe. In number, they amounted to SIX OR SEVEN HUNDRED, although some state it to have been eight or nine hundred. All were executed.”

We can now agree that Muhammad was a violent murderous man, and taught others to commit violence. He also wrote these values of his into his Qur'an, which I'll quote extensively from another time. Unfortunately these teachings are still taught today.

(I am sorry to have to report all this to you, and wish you the best with your up-coming marriage!)

Hi JTW,

you say "there is nothing in the Qur’an which is incomprehensible".
Once again I tell, I'm not saying we can't understand the Holy Quran .. Please re-read my sentences. What i mean is do not even think what was the substance of god, and what the mind of god.

you say "... Muhammad’s murders and torture of innocent people".

Dear Jtw,

after read your post.. honestly.... *sigh... :(

I am very confused how to explain it to you .. we are different understandings of the word "innocent people" ..

if you say that :
● adulteres,
● people who drunk khamr,
● killer,
● thief,
● gay (homosexual),
● incest perpetrators,
etc.

as "innocent people"...

if you think they were as "innocent people" .. so try to imagine if this world filled with people like your "innocent people"... please try to imagine it by your heart..

This may be my last posting on this website (not because of you Jtw) .. sorry .. and thanks

Best Regards
Dayat

Hi Dayat, I was very sad and surprised to read your last post. I refuse to believe that you are a natural-born killer. And yet you seem to suggest that you support Muhammad's murdering of homosexual people, or drunkards, or adulterers, or non-Muslims who owned treasure Muhammad wanted to steal. If this is true of you, I am shocked.

Clearly, anyone who subscribes to these values, and dreams of killing our fellow-citizens, is an absolute disgrace to humanity, and must be denied entry to any civilized country in the world.

However, you can change - if this is not in your nature. You must learn to see Muhammad's murders as wrong. Remember, if you do not, you are tacitly approving of the murder of any Muslim who is seen as an apostate – which is the reason the Taliban and other Islamic terrorists feel free to murder “moderate” Muslims. I'm sure you don't want this, but it can ONLY stop if Muslims like you *reject* Muhammad's murders of apostates. If you can do this, you might also come to reject his other murders one day.

I need to correct a misapprehension which may have arisen over my relating of the story of Muhammad's torture and murder of Kinana. According to Ibn Ishaq, Muhammad INVADED the land of the Jews of Khaibar, and Muhammad TORTURED and MURDERED Kinana so as to STEAL the tribe's treasure, and “married” - i.e RAPED Safiyya – Kinana's WIFE.

You see, women don't choose to have sex with men who have tortured and murdered their husbands, killed their tribespeople, raped and enslaved the women and children, and stolen the tribes' land and treasures. Imagine a Crusader killing all the Muslim men in a tribe, stealing the land and treasure, and then “marrying” the Muslim wife of a man he had tortured and murdered. I know you would agree with me that this would be a disgusting crime.

So, Ibn Ishaq's biography of Muhammad reads: [capitals are mine]

'In the seventh year of the Hijra the Apostle rode out with sixteen hundred followers on an EXPEDITION against the Jewish tribe of Khaybar, about ONE HUNDRED MILES DISTANT.

..When the Apostle reached the valley of Khaybar he halted his companions and prayed to Allah. '...WE ASK THEE for the good of this village, the good of its inhabitants, and THE GOOD OF WHATEVER IS IN IT, and we flee to Thee for refuge from its evil, from the evil of its inhabitants, and from the evil of whatever is in it. Onward, in the name of Allah!' These words he uttered in EVERY VILLAGE HE ENTERED.

...We met a few labourers going forth early to their work, bearing spades and baskets, and when they beheld THE APOSTLE WITH HIS ARMY they cried out and fled. The Apostle said "Allah Akbar! KHAYBAR WILL BE DESTROYED." '

The Apostle occupied the Jewish forts one after the other, taking prisoners as he went. Among these were Safiya, THE WIFE OF KINANA, the Khaybar chief, and two female cousins; THE APOSTLE CHOSE SAFIYA FOR HIMSELF. The other prisoners were distributed among the Muslims.

Bilal brought Safiya to the Apostle, and they passed the bodies of several Jews on the way. Safiya's female companions lamented and strewed dust on their heads. When the Apostle of Allah observed this scene, he said, 'Remove these she‑devils from me' But he ordered Safiya to remain, and threw his reda [cloak] over her. So the Muslims knew HE HAD RESERVED HER FOR HIS OWN. The Apostle reprimanded Bilal, saying, 'Hast thou lost all feelings of mercy, to make women pass by the corpses of THEIR HUSBANDS?'

...He also declared, 'It is not lawful for a Believer to irrigate another man's harvest [to have intercourse with pregnant captives]; nor shall any Believer have intercourse with a captive woman UNTIL she has been purified; neither shall a Believer ride a captured animal which has not been assigned to him and return it, emaciated, to the JOINT STOCK OF PLUNDER; neither shall he wear a captured garment and return it, worn out, TO THE STOCK OF PLUNDER.'

After the Apostle of Allah had conquered the Khaybar forts and POSSESSIONS, he arrived near the forts of al-Watih and al-Sulalim, which were the last strongholds. These he besieged.

...After about ten days, the people realized the hopelessness of attempting to hold out; so they asked for peace and that their lives be spared. The Apostle agreed, because he had already subdued all the other territory.

Kinana, THE HUSBAND OF SAFIYA, had been guardian of the tribe's treasures, and he was brought before the Apostle, who asked where they were hidden. But Kinana refused to disclose the place. ...The Apostle of Allah handed him over to al‑Zubayr, saying, 'TORTURE HIM UNTIL HE TELLS WHAT HE KNOWS', and al‑Zubayr kindled a fire on his chest so that he almost expired; then the Apostle gave him to Muhammad b. Maslama, who STRUCK OFF HIS HEAD.

When the people of Fadak, a Jewish town nearby, heard what was taking place they sent emissaries to the Apostle to ask him to spare them and THEY WOULD ABANDON TO HIM ALL THEIR PROPERTY. HE AGREED. After he had reached an understanding with the people of Khaybar, they asked to be allowed to cultivate THEIR OWN LANDS and to retain one‑half of the produce, saying, 'We know the estates better than thou, and how to cultivate them.' The Apostle concluded peace with them on this basis, but added, 'If we should find it convenient to expel you, we shall do so.' The people of Fadak made peace with him on the same terms; THE PROPERTY OF KHAYBAR was thus common to all the Muslims, but that of Fadak belonged to the Apostle of Allah, because he had conquered it without the aid of cavalry or camels.

...THE PLUNDER OF KHAYBAR, the richest part of the Hijaz, was greater than any before. There were dates, oil, honey and barley, as well as sheep and camels and jewels.

Punishment for disobeying the prohibitions given on the day of Khaybar was swift. On the way back to Medina A SLAVE OF THE APOSTLE was struck by a chance arrow and killed. 'We said, "May he rejoice in paradise", but the Apostle replied, "By no means! I swear that the cloak which he stole from THE BOOTY at Khaybar is now burning on him in hell!" A companion of the Apostle who heard these words approached, and said "O, apostle of Allah! I took two thongs for my sandals", and he replied, "Then you will suffer two thongs of fire." '

So you see, Islam's own texts describe Muhammad talking of PLUNDER, and as a MURDERER and TORTURER of people he knew to be innocent – SOLELY to STEAL FROM THEM – and A RAPIST of married women (which he justified in his Qur'an – verses 4.24, and 33.50). There are also many hadiths which support the details of this Islamic biography.

Now, if a NON-Muslim did ALL this to Muslims, and claimed he was a “messenger of God” do you think the offender should be worshipped, or punished? Answer honestly.

Please, stop taking your values from the FILTH OF THE WORLD, from the WORST CRIMINALS IN HISTORY. Continuing to do so can only lead to more violence and misery.

I am keen reader of your articles everyday and i have realised my freedom from your knowledges. Now i do just like you to educate many muslims like me to come out of this evil cult and i have already convinced many by showing them Truth.

Now just recently i was having agruments with 1 muslim and i was suceeding to show him freedom but he brought me below discovery of Quraan. So please kindly e-mail me about how should i make his below claim wrong because it is wrong but i dont know how to convince him, pls help.

Thank you, my e-mail : freedom0071@live.com

Check this out,
Very interesting findings by

Dr Tariq Al Swaidan

This might grasp your attention:

Dr Tarig Al Swaidan discovered some verses in the

Holy Qur'an

mentions one thing is equal to another,

i.e. men are equal to women.

Although this makes sense grammatically,

the astonishing fact is that the number of

times the word man appears in

the Holy Qur'an

is 24 and number of times the word

woman appears is also 24,

therefore not only is this phrase correct in

the grammatical sense but also true mathematically,

i.e. 24 = 24.

Upon further analysis of various verses,

he discovered that this is consistent throughout the whole

Holy Qur'an
where it says one thing is like another.
See below for astonishing result of
the words mentioned number of times in Arabic
Holy Qur'an
Dunia (one name for life) 115 .
Aakhirat (one name for the life after this world) 115
Malaika (Angels) 88 . Shayteen (Satan) 88
Life 145 Death 145
Benefit 50 Corrupt 50
People 50 Messengers 50
Eblees (king of devils) 11 . Seek refuge from Eblees 11
Museebah (calamity) 75 . Thanks ! 75
Spending (Sadaqah) 73 . Satisfaction 73
People who are mislead 17 Dead people 17
Muslimeen 41 J Jihad 41
Gold 8 Easy life 8
Magic 60 Fitnah (dissuasion, misleading) ! 60
Zakat (Taxes Muslims pay to the poor) 32
Barakah (Increasing or blessings of wealth) 32
Mind 49 Noor 49
Tongue 25 Sermon 25
Desite 8 Fear 8
Speaking publicly 18 Publicising 18
Hardship 114 .... Patience 114
Muhammed 4 Sharee'ah ( Muhammed's teachings) 4
Man 24 . Woman 24
And amazingly enough have a look how many times
the following words appear:
Salat 5, Month 12 , Day 365,
Sea 32, Land 13
Sea + land = 32 + 13 = 45
Sea = 32/45*100q.=71.11111111%
Land = 13/45*100 = 28.88888889%
Sea + land 100.00%
Modern science has only recently proved that water covers
71.111% of the planet , while land covers 28.889%.
Is this a coincidence? Question:
Who taught Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) all this?
Reply automatically comes in mind
ALMIGHTY ALLAH
taught him.
The Holy Qur'an
also tells us this.

Ayat 87 of Suraa (Chapter)
Al-Anbia !para 17 :
LA ILAHA ILA ANTA
SUBHANAKA INI KUNTU MINA ZALIMEEN.

For the next 60 seconds,
stop whatever you are doing,
PLEASE SEND THIS TO ALL PEOPLE YOU KNOW.

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Hi Nur, I can help you out. You say that "Dr Tarig Al Swaidan discovered some verses in the Holy Qur’an mentions one thing is equal to another, i.e. men are equal to women."

Right there, Dr Tariq Al Swaidan is dead wrong. It's a pity that more Muslims don't actually read the Qur'an. Muhammad invented the following verse for his book, which clearly demonstrates his belief that men are superior to women, and should remain so:

Qur’an 4.34
MEN ARE IN CHARGE OF WOMEN, because Allah hath made THE ONE of them TO EXCEL THE OTHER, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So GOOD WOMEN ARE THE OBEDIENT, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As FOR THOSE FROM WHOM YE FEAR REBELLION, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and SCOURGE THEM. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

This view of Muhammad's is the reason the Taliban currently shoot at, or throw ACID on girls who try to go to school - because if girls are well-educated, and become community leaders, doctors, judges, political leaders etc, the Qur'an - and Muhammad's Islam - has been undermined, in that "men" are NO LONGER "in charge of women", and no longer "excel" them.

Moreover, Muhammad invented in this verse that if you "fear rebellion" from women, you may physically attack them. Which is what the Taliban do.

Of course Muhammad wrote more disgusting things about women into his Qur'an, such as the rapes I mentioned earlier (and even that women should get less inheritance than men - see 4.11, 4.176), but you see the point. Please go forth and tell as many Muslims as you can that Muhammad's teachings are causing girls to be physically attacked, and these teachings must be reviled and rejected, NOW.

Hi,

Interesting. I read repeated exasperation of people on the Internet about how Muslims seem to 'conspire' with each other about how you have to read Qur'an in context. The accusation is that this is an excuse.

But it really is a requirement. There is a verse in Qur'an saying that "I (God/Allah, because Allah literally means God in Arabic and Christian Arabic also calls Jesus as Allah) reveals this book (Qur'an) for mankind in Arabic so that you (mankind) could contemplate (about it)." This verse is the basic for Muslims to learn Qur'an in Arabic, and not in translations, because there would be meaning lost in translation and translation is just a mere translation, not the Qur'an itself. This is what Muslims view on Qur'an, not an excuse.

There are three requirements in understanding Qur'an and they are taught everywhere in Islamic schools:

1. Know and master Arabic language
--> That is why Arabic is taught in Islamic schools. Arabic is very complicated. Personal pronouns alone are 14 and every verb, noun, and adverb changes according to the change of personal pronouns AND time (because time is also taken into consideration) AND the type of sentence (there are different types of sentences. Verbs in imperative sentence is certainly different from the verbs in neutral sentence).
The complicated nature of Arabic language makes it have very rich shades of verbs and adjectives, and allows the Qur'an verses to be applied in different ways, actually, according to personal interpretations, understanding, knowledge, references, and experience. That is why it is required, too, for individuals to not only depend on their mastery of the language but also contemplates upon other requirement such follows.
Qur'an itself, so far, after about 14 centuries, has no competitors in the sense of literary style/achievement because the form of the sentences are so complicated, even for the native Arabs. It's like Shakespeare's works in English literary world. If you learn Arabic and compare the sentence style and structure in Qur'an with the sentence style and structure of Muhammad's Hadist, you would see a LOT difference.

2. The history of when and in what condition and how was a particular verse or surah revealed
--> The term for this is 'Asbabun Nuzur' in Arabic, literally means 'the grounds/cause of revelation.' This is what the Muslims call 'context' and the requirement to look upon this Asbabun Nuzur is to compare it to recent case or condition, whether it could be applied contextually or not.

3. Free thinking
--> The term for this is 'ijtihad.' There are extreme and fanatical scholars who now forbid the use of critical thinking, rooted from the fear of change. But there are a lot of other school of thoughts that still requires and obliges this factor in applying the verses in everyday life.

If you look at your suggestion--that Islam should be banished---doesn't it sound like a kind of extreme fanatism to your belief, too? It sounds like Nazism, at least to me. Don't you think that you cannot banish any idea completely on this world? Even I as the follower of Islam you hate can understand that. Even Nazism, that you claim has been banished from this world, is actually still riping in some parts of the world. You just cannot make any idea completely vanished because different people would come with different thoughts.

If you suggest to banish 'extreme' and 'fanatical' and 'illogical' interpretation and practice of Islam, then I'm with you. Because I am a great believer of what Muhammad had said, "If you have to choose something among different things, then choose what's in the middle." This is an official position of Muhammad: that Muslims should be moderate.

Qur’an 4.34
MEN ARE IN CHARGE OF WOMEN, because Allah hath made THE ONE of them TO EXCEL THE OTHER, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So GOOD WOMEN ARE THE OBEDIENT, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As FOR THOSE FROM WHOM YE FEAR REBELLION, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and SCOURGE THEM. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

This is a very contorted translation of Qur'an. The Arabic is approximately like this:

"Ar-rijaalu qawwamuuna 'alan-nissa'i bimaa fadhdholallaahu ba'dhohum 'alaa ba'dhi wa bimaa anfaquu min amwaalihi; fash-shoolihaatu qaanitaatu haafizhootullilghaibi bimaa hafizallaah; wallatii thokhaafuunaa nusyuuzuhunna fa'izuuhunna wahjuruuhunna fil-madhooji'i wadhdhribuuhunna; fa in atho'nakum falaa tabghuu 'alaihinna sabiila; innallaaha kaana 'aliiyan kabiira."

I can explain you the meaning one by one, but it'll take too much time and you'd be confused anyway, as it's clear to me that you don't know Arabic. So the approximate meaning is like this:

"Men have some advantages compared to women so that with them they could give advantages to the others and so that with them they spend their wealth on women. Virtuous women are, therefore, respectful; they guard their rights carefully in their absences under the care and watch of Allah. As for those women whose incompliance you have cause to fear, reprimand them (give warning) and keep them apart from your beds and beat them. Then, if they submit to you, do not look for excuses to punish them: note it well that there is Allah above you, Who is Supreme and Great."

Muslim scholars mostly agree that the treatments above are steps, taken one after another. So if men cannot cooperate with their women because they were disrespectful, then they should warn them. If this fails, then keep them apart from your bed. If this fails, too, you may be allowed to beat them. But if they (the women) agree to be respectful, then you don't have any excuse to do any of this.

Noted that this surah was revealed after the battle of Uhud where Muslims suffered a great loss and some of them were disintegrated from their families. The context of the surah was to warn the men about their responsibility to women, and the women to men. Women should keep their respect and guard the household/family carefully during the absence of men because of war.

You should also take into consideration the following verse (4:35):

" And if you fear a breach between spouses, appoint one arbiter from the relatives of the husband and one from the relatives of the wife. If the two sides sincerely desire to set things right, Allah will create a way' of reconciliation between them, for surely Allah knows everything and is aware of everything."

See? Everything has an explanation. And it depends completely on the individual which kind of interpretation they would like to apply. The extreme ones, of course, overlooking the context and the rightful Arabic content, would think that they have the justification to beat on women without any context at all and that women would think they had no means whatsoever to avoid it, while the next verse clearly stipulates that women could look for arbiters to handle their matters and hence avoid an injustice treatment imposed upon them by men.

Another addition:
"Men have some advantages compared to women...",
In the context of the time of revelation (during the battle of Uhud), this part also means that "men have more advantages to go for battle..." -- so not totally in regards to status (that men are higher than women).

You can check this kind of interpretation to some other scholars.

Hi Rara, I appreciate your good intentions, but you're tying yourself into knots trying to excuse the inexcusable. So let me correct you on some matters. Firstly, Islam is not some Arabic mystery. Its values are taught around the world. Also, Islamic websites run by groups of world-renowned Islamic scholars and university professors exist to explain the ideology. And newcomers to Islam need only pick up an ulema-certified translation of the Qur'an in whichever language they prefer, and they can read for themselves the essence of the original, and understand why Islam preaches what it does today. (Ulema-certified translations of the Qur'an - 'Koran' in correct English - are also easily available to read on the net.)

Secondly, context. Keep in mind that the Qur'an is meant to be teachings from a “god” for all people, in all countries, for all time. I agree that the correct context for reading the Qur'an is that it is a violent criminal's day-to-day self-interested imaginings. Unfortunately Islam teaches otherwise.

For example, in an earlier post above I gave the Qur'an verses promoting the raping of women (4.24, 33.50). I also presented the ACCEPTED HADITH which explains the context in which Qur'an 4.24 was invented - it was invented when Muhammad (or Allah if you prefer) wanted his men to rape non-Muslim women. However, because Islam teaches that the Qur'an is meant for all people for all time, the verse is still in the Qur'an, and is still taught as a current teaching, and not simply for historical interest.

As to the beating of women in Qur'an 4.34, you suggest the ulema-certified translation is incorrect. However, I'm afraid your confidence is misplaced. In fact, you yourself tacitly admit it is correct in essence. You write of it “MEN HAVE some ADVANTAGES COMPARED TO WOMEN...As FOR THOSE WOMEN WHOSE INCOMPLIANCE you have cause to fear, reprimand them (give warning) and keep them apart from your beds and BEAT THEM. Then, if THEY SUBMIT TO YOU...

Now, imagine this: “Non-Muslims have advantages compared to Muslims. As for those Muslims whose incompliance you doubt, beat them, unless they submit to you” Are you okay with this? No, now you can see the problem with language such as this vile trash.

You claim that scholars would offer a pleasant interpretation of 4.34. So let's see what Islamic scholars preach about this verse. Please see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWGA8i6scYY&feature=email
(2 min 14 sec). Now I'm sure you agree with me how dangerous this verse is.

Finally, let me explain the concept of 'Ijtihad' to you. It refers to relying on yourself to form an opinion in a given case ONLY on an issue on which there is no specific guidance in the Qur’an and the Sunnah. It involves the interpretation of the source material and inference of rules from them. A hadith attributed to Bukhari is used to explain it:

The Prophet asked of Muadh [who was to travel to Yemen] "What will you do if you have to decide a matter faced by you?" He replied, "I will decide it according to the Book of Allah." The Prophet further asked, "If you do not find anything about it in the Book of Allah, then what?" He answered, "In that case I’ll decide according to the Sunnah of the Prophet of Allah." At this the Prophet asked, "If you do not find anything in the Sunnah of the Prophet?" He said, "I’ll decide it with my own opinion (i.e. apply the reasoning power) and leave no stone unturned." Hearing this, the Prophet applauded, "Praise be to Allah who guided the apostle of the Prophet the methodology which the Prophet himself likes."

So as you can see, the concept of 'Ijtihad' holds out no hope of softening Islam's murderous or violent teachings, where those teachings are explicit in the Qur'an and/or hadith. The only way to civilize Islam is for Muslims to publicly disparage and reject Muhammad's violence - and I'm sure most will, when they learn the truth.

Hi

This is probably one of the finest websites I've stumbled across to hear honest, and logical debates about the Koran. The arguments' between dayat & jtw showed me the dangerous belief muslims really have about Islamic teaching. For dayat-who seemingly appeared quite intelligent, to argue that certain people should be killed, is nothing better than what the nazi's believed in, or did, in the concentration camps during WWII.

What I would like to know, and something that I regulariry think about is this:

In the west it certainly appears modern Europeans' question the very existance of God, and a healthy majority sincerely believe that the bible, is infact nothing but a story of morals. The modern, educated Europeans, actually question the writing and deduct the truth with the evidence that is available. Science as long proven that a lot of what is written in the bible is simply untrue.

Why don't Muslims question their religion? why do they believe in every single line of versus with- in some cases, a fanatical passion? Why don't they appear willing to question anything about its structure or scope. Almost to the point that it seems a taboo.

I for one, find it utterly disturbing that modern day people, with all the technology available, still believe in medieval doctrines. Especially with regards to the chaos that is associated with Islam. What is the binding passion of Islam? What drives people to blow themselves up, and to walk around covered from head to toe in robes and masks? Is the religion just the extension of a lunatic that as sold the world one of the biggest lies since the bible?

I struggle to see how the Koran (like the bible) can seriously hold modern thought in a hypnotic trance.
I will never be a Scholar of either book, yet I have read enough to conclude neither of them are relevant to my modern day life.

2000 yrs ago there were no: Cars, Computers, TV's, Internet, Trains, et cetera, just old wives tales that had been passed down through the centuries, like Homers' poetry.

1400 yrs ago there were no: Cars, Computers, TV's, Internet , Trains, et cetera, just a few more old wives tales that had been passed down through the centuries, along with the Bible and Homers' poetry.

You can sort of see why people might have taken religion more seriously hundreds of years ago, however, today.........it certainly makes you think.

JTW,

I am also Atheist. My wife is Baptist and her family for generations was , but is now realizing how wrong religion is. I have 2 children who are 10 and 11 years old. They are also Atheists. They became Atheists on their own. I had a talk with them and told them to you their own judgement and common sense. I knew they would choose to become Atheist. To me and my family it's common sense. With all the hatred , war and death caused by religion it was the obvious choice. I don't beleive in fairies so why would I beleive in a god. If religion was true there would only be one god, not hundreds. The religious of the world just have to open their eyes and minds, truely do this, and they will see. They've all been fooled and brainwashed. Where you are born decides which religion you are and that's that unless you are an immigrant then you'll be the same religion as your parents which tells you that religion is man made and that you were brainwashed as a child. The religious also take only the good parts of "their" bibles and discard the bad things. How convenient is that. If you are a true beleiver wouldn't you beleive "your" whole bible. You can't pick and choose what you think is best. If you do this you are going against the word or your god. That's what makes me laugh about religion. There are more "crazy" and "contradictive" quotes in all the bibles than good ones, but you don't here of any of those ones do you???
Anyways JTW, I've read some of your comments and see you are a well educated Atheist. I just wish that the religious would also do their homework , like you have , and come to realize how wrong and STUPID religion really is. All they have to do is read other religions bibles and they will see, if they have an open mind.
Take care....... IAMatheist

Muslims are afraid of their own shadow. Why only in Islam renouncing it is sin.Why many muslim countries try to block this very site.Why Muslim authorities deny permission to leave ISLAM.One example google under LINA JOY + MALAYSIA and you know what i am talking.

Hi Chris, thanks for the story about Lina Joy. The reason Islam threatens people who leave with death, is because Muhammad declared WAR on the world, until everyone submits to his religion's authority. So Islam considers apostates as people who have gone over to the “enemy” side in this war of theirs. The Islamic scholar Dr. Zakir Naik explains about this sort of “treason” at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMAZR8YIhxI&feature=channel_page

Hi IAMatheist, I think you make some great points. One thing I'd add though, is that while it is true as you say that "The religious also take only the good parts of “their” bibles and discard the bad things" , I think in some ways we should congratulate them if they do this. If people need to believe in ancient stories, they should at least let their humanity rise above the more barbarous teachings, and discard them. If ONLY Islam did that!

For example, in the Old Testament of the Bible, the stoning of certain people is promoted. But in the New Testament the Jesus character specifically speaks *against* stoning. Today there is no Christian religion which promotes the execution of anyone. Islam on the other hand *refuses* to discard the murders, rapes, stonings, and thefts of peoples' lands from their texts, and as we know, this barbaric stubborness results in an incredible amount of suffering and violence around the world. (Btw, I think it's great that you're spreading atheism.)

Hi Britannic, you raise some vitally important points about Islam - “nothing better than what the nazi’s believed in, or did, in the concentration camps during WWII”.

Apart from preaching mass executions of the same groups as the Nazis did (only more) – such as Jews and homosexuals - Islam also has in common with Hitler an ideological commitment to world-conquest. This derives from the Qur'an 9.29
'FIGHT THOSE who do not believe in Allah, ...nor do they prohibit what Allah and HIS MESSENGER have prohibited...UNTIL...THEY ARE IN A STATE OF SUBJECTION',

and hadiths such as Bukhari Volume 1, Book 2, Number 24:

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
'Allah's Apostle said: "I HAVE BEEN ORDERED (by Allah) TO FIGHT AGAINST THE PEOPLE until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that MUHAMMAD IS ALLAH'S APOSTLE, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives an property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."

and from Sahih Muslim (from 'The Book of Jihad and Expedition' - this from where Muhammad stole Jews' lands)
Book 019, Number 4363:
'...The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: I WANT THIS... - He said to them (the same words) the third time (and on getting the same reply) he added: YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT THE EARTH BELONGS TO Allah and HIS APOSTLE, and I wish that I should expel you from this land Those of you who have any property with them should sell it, otherwise they should know that THE EARTH BELONGS TO Allah and HIS APOSTLE (and they may have to go away leaving everything behind).'

and then there's Qur'an 33.27 justifying Muslims stealing others' land and goods:
'And He caused you to inherit THEIR LAND and THEIR HOUSES and THEIR WEALTH, and LAND YE HAVE NOT TRODDEN. Allah is ever Able to do all things.'

So we get Muslim preachers everywhere alluding to Islam's goals of taking over the world. E.g at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4EpCwhgOCE&feature=channel_page (2 min 53)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPTioW1LPh8&feature=channel_page (6.05)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGpJC3f3UHk&feature=PlayList&p=4E04F2608F... (4 min 56 sec)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS2poWXCKLs&feature=PlayList&p=4E04F2608F... (1.19)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV28b1_6HGU&feature=PlayList&p=4E04F2608F... (3.06)

Islam also divides the world into the House of Islam (Dar al-Islam) , and the House of War (Dar al-Harb) - i.e. anywhere where Islam is not the ruling ideology, is a potential theater of war.

You raise the points about why Muslims don't question Islam more, and why they're prepared to blow themselves up, and I could add, why they accuse anyone who is opposed to Islam's murderous teachings as being a Muslim-hater. The answer essentially comes down to the fact that Islam considers itself at war (until it rules the world).

Islam also offers rewards to those who die in its service, and, because it threatens those who leave Islam with execution, Muslims are encouraged to become more blindly devout than followers of any other cult in history. It is demonstrably true that Islam is a cult of murder and violence. As such, any follower *must* be barred from entry to any civilized country - not only to protect our innocent civilians, but to encourage Islamic cult-members to question their adherence to such vile and destructive values.

hi wel great step but i dont think it will work ........................

i think by my personal experience muslim are the community which r more attach to god almighty then any other community in this world like praying 5 times a day fasting and all etc .well d people work should not be count or compare wid there religion.All r same human beings but d work of one human to other differ from each other....i m a hindu,,, im not a hindu if i criticised other religion .War stories are there in every religion even in MAHABHARTA we have more than that of QURAN means we have a book on war and peace .

SO dont criticise any body because the emphasis should be on nature of person not on religion

plzz spread humanity an peace

I don't believe you are a hindu.

I believe, you are a muslim who pretends to be a hindu in order to make your clear favourizing of Islam "acceptable" for the readers.

Islam also values honesty. So stand by your faith when you seek to argue.

" muslim are the community which r more attach to god almighty then any other community in this world like praying 5 times a day fasting and all etc ."

This shows arrogance and a clear cut comparisons with other religions. Being Muslim you think Islam is the best religion. Fine. But Allah does not advocate arrogance and Christianity, Judaism (people of the Book) are considered equals to Muslims in the Koran.

The question raised by your comment:

Can a muslim only be close to Allah/God if they pray 5 times a day? No. The Koran does not mention 5 times. It just mentions pray regularily. Like give charity (Zakat). It does not say how much.

The Koran coincidentally also speaks about the people who pray but in their hearts practise malice = hypocrits. This is evident when you look around. Many muslims do not care if a woman gets stone, a girl raped in a muslim country and sentenced to lashings, but they do care when silly cartoons of Muhammad are revealed. Where is the "Ummah's" solidarity I ask?

A true Muslim would value human life more than cartoons and other irrelevant matters.

Anyways I agree one should not compare religions. But I think it is valid to discuss the problems that stem from religion in todays world and do something about them. Because that is love for humanity.

first nd foremost i want u to change ur name there i ali in it nd u know who's name is that.nd if ur not intrested in being a muslim fine we dont even want u in our community,go to hell man who cares.u'll never succeed in it nd islam has nothin to do with terrorist k,u suck sina is a born loser ur a xxxx bastard,allah is seeing wat wrong ur doin nd u'll never succeed in it nd u wil end up in hell nd nower else.u wanna continue ur xxxx go ahead but jus remove ali frm ur name u dog

your thoughts about Islam and Allah's messenger are truly wrong,and all the people supporting you are also wrong and will suffer.you have not understood the Quran correctly and you will end up wrong.if so why don't you convert quietly,why did you have to make this site,what do you think??? taking this bold step you will convert many Muslims into any of those idiotic and useless religions which do not have faith in them.Islam is the roots of all other religions.Every other religion has extracts taken from Islam and they have been modified.Read the quran again and you will surely understand.islam has nothing to do with terrorism or forcefulness,it is just because of a few everyone is taken into consideration.Why is it that if a non-muslim does it and he is alwys left????u might be familier with that sadhvi's case???where is she now???hidden somewhere,why isn't she being looked out.If it were to be a muslim here he would have been dragged nd killed on the spot,dont ypu agree???How could you not believe in such a loving,beautiful,clean religion like islam???it is indeed a very peaceful religion too no doubt.Its just because of the few as mentioned before.And stop saying such rubbish about our beloved prophet,not now but in the end,at the judgement day you will surely come to know the harsh circumstances and the punishment by allah for such actions of yours.In the end i would love to know which religion are you following now????????